Posted on 08/11/2006 1:35:51 PM PDT by genefromjersey
Dividing India and Pakistan was a mistake. Or do you not recognize the constant state of low level warfare between the two countries? They're both nuclear powers now too, which only makes things worse.
The situation in Germany and Austria is different. It cannot be used as a model for what is proposed for Iraq by Biden.
North and South Korea are still technically at war. It is the DMZ and our military presence that has kept the peace there.
I'm not so sure you can argue that what happened to Yugoslavia is a ringing endorsement for Biden's plan.
Palestine would do a lot better to be absorbed into Israel than to suggest that the process be the other way around. We're talking about absorbing the three distinct factions in Iraq into a single, cohesive, and democratic government. The key is the "democratic" part. What we have in Palestine is the result that we want to avoid in Iraq, and which is what we'll get in Iraq if we create a loose confederation instead of a strong central government. If anything, Palestine should be all the proof we need of what will go wrong if we go along with Biden's plan. Israel should've just declared that it owned Palestine and annexed it back when it won those lands from its neighbors.
You make good points about the intermingling of peoples. though i think the Sunnis are concentrated in the so called Sunni Triangle. The Kurds could make a go of it. the already have developed autonomous institutions, political, social, and military. A Kurdistan would enflame Iran and Turkey. I could care less about Iran, and maybe could see to using Iranian Kurdish territory as a settlement area for Turkish Kurds. But the Turks would go nuts. I've recently read a little about the Greek Turkish war of 1919-1921 and it was one horrific piece of business. With modern weapons I could see a Turk-Kurdish conflict rewriting some casualty records.
The UN. Who do you think would end up overseeing "an equitable share of the oil revenues"?
Just so we're all on the same page, Joe has some "backup" - from a group I don't like the looks of.
http://www.goalsforamericans.org/
This is essentially their idea:
http://www.goalsforamericans.org/commentary/?id=99
Here is one of their recent screeds:
http://www.goalsforamericans.org/gallery/d/637-3/GoalsforAmer+Lebanon+RollCall+Ad3.pdf
Look 'em over and get back to me,please !
You must not know any history. That's an amazing list you made. Can't imagine having the time to enlighten you.
Oil is in the North and South, but Sunnis want some of the revenue. That was their beef about the constitution. What kind of an egomaniac does Joe Biden think he is to be planning to divide up someone else's country? When I listen to dems it is hard to fathom how disrespectful they are of others. They like to play "Let's Make a Deal" with other peoples' lives and then go skiing or windsurfing.
It illustrated precisely the same point you made. Here's your comment:
There are many areas of the country (Baghdad, for example) where all three groups -- or at least the two major ones (Shi'ites and Sunnis) -- live in close proximity to each other in areas that are not clearly defined.Here's my version:
There are many areas of the country (Bosnia, for example) where all three groups -- or at least the two major ones (Serbs and Croats) -- live in close proximity to each other in areas that are not clearly defined.
You must not know any history if you don't recognize that the United Nations has imposed a partition on almost every ethnic problem from the moment it has looked into from the time it was created. See the list I made. Firt Germany was partitioned, then India, China (PRC and ROC), Palestine, Vietnam, Korea, Pakistan (W. Pakistan and Bangladesh), Yugoslavia (where it was imposed on them by NATO bombing), and the Soviet Union. Does the failure of partitioning mean that partitioning is now repudiated and Serbia can reassert control over Bosnia and the PRC can reassert control over the ROC? Or does the success of partitioning mean partitioning is an effective tool used by the UN to reduce ethnic strife for the last 60 years?
Ethnic strife in Yugoslavia? Solution --> Bomb them until the separate.
Ethnic strife in Iraq? Solution --> Bomb them until the learn to stay together.
Wouldn't the continuing conflict in evry one of those regions suggest the solution was not too good ?
Bingo!
Always "follow the money"...........
(You know...like the AlGore family holdings in Occidental Petroleum, etc.)
(Those "poor" democrats who have multi millions but "love" the working class... yeah! right!)
Here's my take,Gene: Ignore everything said by Joe Biden.
I pretty much agree with you, and there were times when the Iraq war was first done that I called for Iraq to be split into 3 countries.
Had Turkey been much help during the war, their secessionist fears might get more sympathy.
What would work even better is to split Iraq into 3 countries, AND split Iran into 3 or more countries.
Keep them small and wary of each other and they'll be too busy to wage war against Israel and the west. The downside is each gets a vote at the UN which already has too many Muslim states.
I am an historian, and I lived through all that. But it is not at all clear that you have a point to make or what it might be.
Let me try again. Concentrate. The United Nations has imposed a partition on many countries from its foundation. It has been the preferred course of action in almost every instance. The list of countries having been partitioned by the UN is long. There is nothing in the make-up of Iraq that would make it any different from any of the other previous countries that have been partitioned -- some successful, some not. If you accepted partition as a solution for ethnic/religious strife in the Balkans, then there's no reason to think partition is not a solution in Iraq. Iraq itself was a partitioned part of the former Ottoman Empire.
Was it an "egomaniac" that divided up the Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, Germany, India, Ireland, Palestine, Korea, Pakistan, Vietnam, and Yugoslavia?
Was it an out of power senator?
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