Skip to comments."Serbia should go after Ustasha killers"
Posted on 08/09/2006 5:51:06 PM PDT by Bokababe
BELGRADE -- The leading Nazi hunter has called on Serbia to take a more active part in searching for the WW2 war criminals.
Efraim Zuroff (www.jasenovac.info)
One of the directors of the Simon Wiesenthal Center Efraim Zuroff says that Belgrade is entitled to seek extradition of Ustasha commanders Ivo Rojnica and Milivoj Aner, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Serbs, Jews and Romas, in order for them to be put on trial in Serbia, since Croatia refuses to start the proceedings against them.
Rojnica and Aner, now in their eighties, live in Argentina and Austria respectively without even attempting to hide. Zuroff says he has requested from the Croatian prosecution to start the extradition proceedings and the trial but with no results to date.
According to the Centers data, Ivo Rojnica, the former Dubrovnik Ustasha commander, is responsible for the crimes against hundreds of Serbs, Jews and Romas in Dubrovnik, while Milivoj Aners crimes include those committed in Slavonska Poega. He also said to have transported people to the Ustasha death camp of Jasenovac.
Since the victims were Serbs as well as Jews, Zuroff believes Serbia has the right to demand that the trial should take place in Belgrade. When it comes to the Second World War cases, in our attempts to see justice done it has always been important to consider the victims origins and identity. Perhaps this rule is not applicable to the crimes from recent wars, but when it comes to WW2 that is certainly a principle that we apply.
Zuroff, who contributed the most to the arrest of another of Jasenovac commanders, Dinko akiæ, reminds that war crimes do not fall under the statute of limitation and that the search for the perpetrators should not stop simply because they are very old people today. The passing of time does not diminish what those men did. If someone committed a war crime in 1941 or 1942 and if 60 years have passed and they were not brought to justice, it does not mean that persons responsibility is not the same today as it was then. If a time limitation were imposed on the processes it would mean that there is a way to avoid the genocide charges. Someone commits genocide, stays in hiding long enough and then reaches a certain age, and thats that he got away!
Efraim Zuroff has been heading The Last Chance project for the past four years. It is a campaign to find the WW2 criminals and includes over a thousand investigations in 17 countries. The campaign offers 10 000 dollars reward for any information that can lead to an arrest.
Serbian citizens can use the following phone number: 064 110 7249, while campaign information is available at operationlastchance.com.
I posted this too, but just after you. I am having it deleted by the moderators though.
Sounds like an excellent idea. No sense letting today's budding war criminals get the idea that we'll leave them alone when they are old and funky.
It's about time for a modicum of justice to be implemented. Other nations who suffered at the hands of the genocidal Nazis/Communists settled claims for better or worse.
Serbians have not found justice since they continued to be oppressed under the Communists post WWII.
Yes, Tito was a war criminal and an unprosecuted one. However, Tito's murders were just that -- political murders.
But the Ustashi killed primarily based on religious & racial identity -- Serbs, Jews, Gypsies. Not just murder, but what we would today call a hate crime, religious persecution, literal "ethnic cleansing" -- and for the most part, they got away with it. But, better to go after them late than never.
Why go after WW2 era when there are plenty sitting pretty in Zagred, Sarajevo, Tuzla, Hrvatksa and throughout Kosovo. Forget "WW2" era, no one cares about the past, get the current era whilst it is still freshly engrained into the current generations head. They'll remember the arrests and repercussions.
So that those "sitting pretty in Zagreb" have nowhere to go, nowhere to hide, no financial support from the old Ustashi in the diaspora to hide them on the run when.if someone does come after them.
I don't see this as an either/or situation. You go after BOTH. The difference is that when it comes to the old Ustashi, you have the support of Jewish organizations who have always been far more effective at mobilizing the resources necessary to really get these bastards nailed than the Serbs alone ever have been.
The Jews know the deal and the Serbs need to stop harping on the past (60 yrs ago -ages ages ages ago).
When you go after 'both', you split your resources and weaken yourself. Go after what is fresh!
You have to plan all this out like a military op and then attack it, not rehash. That is the Serbs number one problem, they try to glorify the past as they feel it makes them stronger and prouder. All it gets them is more folk songs and myths/stories to tell their grandkids about.
That is why many Serbs in America (American-born Serbs) stay away in droves and not get involved.
That is the core reason why I'm no longer involved with the Serb PR end of it or organizational end. Their outlook is wrong and heading towards more misery with their strategy.
Screw the WW2 era, move on and go after this generations murderers and redirect all the funds to it.
Kick out the "old Serbs" and bring in the young generation to lead it. Again, that is why many many young Serbs stay away and don't want to get involved anymore.
Don't agree. Those WWII victims desrve justice too, just as when you are an old man, today's victims will deserve justice to you.
You can't get the future right if you can't get the history straight. The biggest msitake that Serbs made back in the 1960's-1980's was not getting that history straight -- because if we had, when the Balkan wars came along in the 1990's, everyone would have known who the real good guys and bad guys were. But instead, we did the "forgive and forget" trivializing of that WWII genocide against Serbs.
Did you see this?
BOSNIA HERZEGOVINA Mass WWII grave uncovered: http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/919728.htm
What drove a lot of our young people away was the constant bickering and backward-ass reasoning of the older people in administering the church. The older ones had nothing in common with their younger more educated kids but wouldn't let got of their power to pass it on to the next generation until it was too late. By that time, their kids were gone and so were their grandchildren.
that is what drove away many of the younger Serbs and part of your explaniation as well, the bickering which was also brought on by the aforementioned.
That is why I don't harp on the WW2 era at all, it is done with. Besides, the generation you want to reach out and touch is our generation of Americans. They do not want to be given history lessons about their grandfathers era. Ya need to know and learn that, give up harping on the past. Stop thinking like a Serb and think like a Marketing Director, you've gotta sell 'em todays problems as we Americans "don't go that far back" (saying). Razumish/Understand?
That won't fly very far while you have indictees in the Hague and Mladic is at large. I think anybody on Madison Avenue would tell you that.
Thank you, Joe. You are right.
Ma, first of all you make the assumption that I am 130 yrs old and that I haven't been or am not "a marketing director" -- and you are wrong on both counts. My father may have been in WWII, but he was 50 years old when I was born -- I am hardly decrepit. And even if I were, you are suffering from the delusion that "only what is important to your generation" has significance. (We all had that delusion once, and then we grew up.) I got news baby -- your generation doesn't vote with any regularity and has less interest in any kind of history than virtually any other, plus -- there are still far more baby boomers in this country than 20-45yr olds combined! The power, the money and the political activism is still with the baby boomers, which is why you've got a Cindy Sheehan out there demonstrating against the war, instead of some 20 year old! So when it comes to being of "political significance" your generation doesn't really matter as anything other than "as soldiers for the wars of old men" and as consumers -- just as the generation before it was when they were your age. Every generation pays for the priviledge of preserving this civilization and only after that is done, do they get a chance to weild any kind of political power. That is the price -- and you are personally out there paying it right now -- and for which we all owe you thanks.
I find it really amazing that you can say WWII doesn't matter when in fact it was allusions of WWII (death camps, Nazis, etc) that were actually used on the Serbs to create this illusion of "good guys" vs. "bad guys". PR firms very effectively convinced an entire generation ignorant of WWII Balkan history, that the only people who fought against the Nazis during WWII were actually "the Nazis", meanwhile the real WWII Nazis (Izetbegovic was with the WWII Nazi Handzar Division and Tudjman "thanked God -- in writing-- that his wife was neither a Serb nor a Jew"!) got the sympathy. For God's sake, the reall WWII history of Yugoslavia blows all those allusions out of the water and explains why the Serbs went so crazy when all the WWII Nazi alliances, and signs and symbols resurfaced during the 1990's.
When the wars in Yugo were going on, one the biggest movies around was "Schindler's List" and five years later (a year before the NATO Bombing) in 1998, was "Saving Private Ryan". That was largely because WWII was the last war that the American people had absolute unwavering and unquestionable confidence in. And those films helped convince the American people that "we must do something" when the "ethnic cleansing" allusions were made re the Kosovo Albanians.
The fact is that you have to neutralize "the marketing" that has already been done on the Balkan wars, before you can deal with anything else. Some people today believe that we are on the brink of (or have already begun) WWIII and that may well be the case. If it is, the confidence and the sacrifices of WWII will become of far more significance to generations who have never known any force that threatened their very existence as that generation did.
Moreover, we both know that Balkans wars are not over -- they are just "on hold". If it really does come down to Islam vs. the Western world in WWIII, the lines go right through the Balkans and that will be a crucial front. The US will need to know who is our friend, who shares our values, and who isn't. And so the Serbs don't get screwed a third time in 60 years, we need to know where they are really coming from -- and that involves the history of their culture and their complete resistance to both aggressive Islam and Nazism.
If you can't see this, then I don't know what to tell you, Ma.
There is another very important point that I did not include.
Post WWII, Nazism didn't die -- it went into hibernation. Most Americans know about the old Nazis down in South America. But one crucial link that was ingored, was that a significant number of old German Nazis, including some fairly high-level ones, went to the ME and spread the diabolical seeds there. Many of these German Nazis converted to Islam and took on Arab names. They translated Mein Kampf and the Elders of Zion into Arabic. http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/where.html
What you are fighting today aren't just radical Islamists. They are actually, Mein Kampf-carrying, neo-Nazi Islamists. The "Islamo-fascist" title is no joke and isn't just about Islam. The "Jew-hating", violence and totalitarian structure of Nazism appealed to these Islamists-- as did the WWII Nazi focus on "eliminating Christianity" http://www-camlaw.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/nuremberg/nurinst1.htm . Here was the WWII Nazi Bosnian Muslim flag that pretty much says it all: http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/pages/1-flag_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm
Once again, WWII matters because Nazism is back in a big way -- mostly under the title of "radical Islam". I also think that some of the old Euro Nazis are helping them, which is how and why the Slovenes & Croats (WWII Nazi Ustashi), Bosnian Muslims (WWII Nazi Handzars)and Albanians (WWII Nazi Skanderbergs) all got together to pull off the destruction of Yugoslavia. I do not believe that it was a coincidence -- it was too well choreographed to be anything other than "a plan to be executed".
You just proved me correct regards to my generation and don't underestimate my prowess for politico-military affairs of the Balkans. Things are not what they seem as their are sniffers on here. That is where hoplite has problems dealing and will continue to do so.
Let me put it to you this way, he will never ever (or very rarely) engage in a debate with me. I've created names on here and befriended him. I pushed the envelope to determine when he determined it was I til one nickname...:) He's yet to know whom that nick is and he won't.
You misinterpret what I write on not rehashing WW2. Many many people are tired of that being brought up, only the Jewish people are "allowed" to bring it up due to their great lobbying power and skills.
The older Serb generation has a death grip on the NGO political groups and other organizations around here and won't allow any younger Serbs to gain board seats etc... They are antiquated and don't see beyond "WW2" and it makes the Serbs look bad.
I prefer that we let go of the past and concentrate on "NOW", use the resources available on the current wars. There are more conflicts brewing, Sandjak/KosMetohija region is on the front burner too.
That is the silent conflict that will make a splash once Kosovo is "settled". i.e the muslims view that as an extension of their mecca.
Has anyone of you all been to Southern Serbia in the past few years like I have? You all know how that region is brewing? Novi Pazar is homebase for the region, the facilitator and passageway for all things muslim-evil.
Focus on whats ahead, get a jump start 'NOW' so we don't lose the PR war for the umpteenth time.
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