At last, the real answer to life, the Universe and everything - the ELT

The Times (Times Online UK) ^ | 05 August 2006 | Mark Henderson

[PatrickHenry]

That's the Extremely Large Telescope, not just the Very Large one.

ACCORDING to The Hitch-Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, it is the answer to life, the Universe and everything. Now scientists have turned to Douglas Adams’s magic number — 42 — to help them to answer that question for real.

Not satisfied with the spectacular views afforded by the Very Large Telescope (VLT), which is kept at Paranal Observatory in Chile, astronomers plan to build a bigger version, the Extremely Large Telescope (ELT), with a mirror measuring 42m in diameter.

The project, to be undertaken by the European Southern Observatory (ESO), will take about ten years and cost between €500 million and €1 billion (£700 million).

It will transform our knowledge and understanding of the cosmos. The larger the mirrors in a telescope, the more light it captures and therefore the more powerful it is.

Originally, the scientists had hoped to build an Overwhelmingly Large Telescope, with a 100m mirror, but this idea was abandoned as over-ambitious. The 42m size was deemed more feasible.

The coincidence between the mirror’s diameter and Douglas Adams’s answer to life, the Universe and everything has delighted astronomers working on the project, as the ELT is designed to shed light on exactly the same questions.

Andreas Kaufer, director of the Paranal Observatory, home to the VLT, said: “That is one of the big questions: where does the Universe come from, and where is it going to? The other big one, of course, is: where does life come from?” The VLT, which came into service in 2001, has already taken science closer to the answers. It consists of four 8.2m telescopes. They are used separately or together to simulate a 200m telescope, albeit with less sensitivity than a real mirror of that size.

In 2004, the VLT captured the first images of a planet beyond our solar system, a gas giant about five times the mass of Jupiter named 2M1207b.

Research into planets orbiting other stars is critical to discovering the prospects for extraterrestrial life.

The ELT’s much bigger mirror will allow it to see farther than the VLT, and in greater detail. It should be able to pick up much smaller planets closer in size to Earth; those found to date have been gas giants that could not harbour life.

Scientists estimate that a 42m telescope would be powerful enough to search about 100 star systems for Earth-like planets. It should even be capable of examining their light for signatures of life, such as the presence of liquid water and methane.

The ELT would also be able to resolve stars in nearby galaxies, and to look in detail at galaxies more than 13 billion light years away, which were formed after the Big Bang about 13.7 billion years ago.

“In astronomy, looking far means looking back in time,” said Dr Kaufer. “You can look right at the beginning of the Universe, while the first stars and galaxies form. The gain will be to get decent data that will allow us to analyse what we can see, to see how they formed and evolved.”

British scientists have had access to the VLT since Britain joined the ESO in 2002. The ELT project is likely to consider six sites. Chile is the front-runner, thanks to its exceptional conditions for astronomy.

The Paranal Observatory, which sits on the top of Cerro Paranal, a 2,500m Andean mountain in the Atacama Desert, which is the driest on Earth with an average of just 3mm of rainfall each year. This provides almost perfect viewing conditions on 90 per cent of nights. Its remoteness offers guaranteed dark skies.

Other potential sites are in South Africa, Morocco and Tibet. There is even a possibility of building it in Antarctica, where some regions are even drier than the Atacama.

At present, the world’s largest telescopes are the twin Keck telescopes in Hawaii, with their 10m segmented mirrors. The four VLT telescopes have the largest single mirrors.

# A giant infra-red camera is to be shipped from Oxfordshire to Chile next month to map the southern night sky. The camera, which barely fits into the cargo bay of a Boeing 747, will be fitted to the Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy (Vista).

The £36 million telescope was conceived as a tool for British astronomers, but was handed to the European Southern Observatory in 2002 as part of Britain’s £72 million fee for joining the international partnership. Its mirror was also built at the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Didcot, Oxfordshire.

Vista’s wide-angle view will capture and map millions of stars at once. Although other telescopes such as the VLT are more powerful, it offers the best combination of power and angle of any telescope in the world. It will be able to detect relatively cool objects, such as failed stars or brown dwarfs, and to see through clouds of dust. It will also be able to see very distant and old objects, which are visible only in the infra-red part of the spectrum.

[PatrickHenry]

Everybody be nice.

[PatrickHenry]

SciencePing

An elite subset of the Evolution list. See the list's explanation at my freeper homepage. Then FReepmail to be added or dropped.

[silverleaf]

And if this doesn't answer those questions, will they next build a Gigantic Humongous Bodacious Telescope?

[peyton randolph]

And if this doesn't answer those questions, will they next build a Gigantic Humongous Bodacious Telescope?

---

Wouldn't be simpler to pray to the Great Green Arkleseizure for guidance instead?

[D-fendr]

How big a scope would you need to explore consciousness?

[bkepley]

Everybody be nice.

About what?

[browardchad]

“That is one of the big questions: where does the Universe come from, and where is it going to? The other big one, of course, is: where does life come from?”

I can hardly wait for the pictures of "life" -- coming and going.

The big question is: Are there traffic lights?

[Ben Chad]

Cool - a look at FSM up close and personal.

[Dallas59]

What will the Muslims do with it after they take over?

[D-fendr]

I hope we come up with a replacement for the Hubble. A shame to let it go..

[Virginia-American]

Wow.

Mt. Palomar: 5.1 meter mirror. ELT: 42m. That's ~8x larger in diameter, ~64x more light gathering power.

(The Hubble Space Telescope is 2.4m, 1/4 the light gathering power of Palomar, ~1/256 that of ELT)

[taxed2death]

wouldn't one be able to read a license plate number off of a space ship parked next to an EBE's domicile on Alpha Centuri with this thing?

I mean really...how boring would it be looking as gas giants a bazillion light years away....it would seem more interesting spying on our neighbors.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Placemarker

[GAB-1955]

That's the James Webb Telescope, which will be built in space at the Lagrange point.

[ahayes]

Feelings run high when the topic turns to optics.

[alnitak]

The segmentation technique as proven on Keck has opened the gateway to ever larger apertures. The US has a similar project:

http://tmt.ucolick.org/

[yankeedame]

Feelings run high when the topic turns to optics.

Humm...yes, I've noticed that it is quite a flash point. Most certainly not the sort of thing you bring up as dinner conversation.

[Doctor Stochastic]

What will the Muslims do with it after they take over?

If history is any indication, they will name some more stars.

[phantomworker]

“In astronomy, looking far means looking back in time,” said Dr Kaufer. “You can look right at the beginning of the Universe, while the first stars and galaxies form."

Interesting concept.

[esquirette]

It isn't 42 anyway. It's butter.

[ahayes]

Most certainly not the sort of thing you bring up as dinner conversation.

Certainly I don't! It's the last thing I would think of doing!

[Quark2005]

Nice article. Hope this one doesn't go the way of yesterday's cosmology thread...

[longshadow]

Hope this one doesn't go the way of yesterday's cosmology thread...

We should be able to get in a few good hours before the Science Thread Trashing Trolls show up: the ones from last night are probably still passed out, and it's still too early in the morning for their relief posters to have a full snoot-full, which is required for them to have the courage & belligerence neeeded to trash a science thread.

[theFIRMbss]

>the ones from last night are probably still passed out [trolls sleep?!]

"Though after midnight, an eerie glow outlined the 3,000-foot-tall peaks rising on either side of the 300-foot-wide channel our brave little ship was entering. Early the previous morning we'd crossed the Arctic Circle into the "Land of the Midnight Sun," but we were still weeks from the summer solstice, leaving this night dark enough for imaginations to run wild. "We were cautiously cruising Troll Fjord, the mile-and-a-half stretch of Norway's rugged 1,250-mile western coast that these supernatural creatures call home. Would this be the night that the immoral trolls, whose ambition is to dominate mortal man, choose to stone a ship? Nope, our captain knows that trolls sleep for a thousand years after their midday meal, and we'd be safe tonight. ..." [Norwegian Coastal Voyage: cruise along Norway's Troll Fjord]

[Dimensio]

Is there not a danger that the telescope could inadvertently become a Total Perspective Vortex?

[Coyoteman]

Nice article ===> Placemarker <===

[Physicist]

About what?

There's a cadre of mouth-breathing science haters on FR who absolutely can't stand the thought of any rational inquiry into the workings of nature. If they can't spin any doomsday scenario or contrive any moral objection to a specific piece of research, they resort to bitching about the cost. If a dime's worth of taxes is spent, they'll harp on that fact, but it's not a requirement for their contumely.

[Physicist]

Hope this one doesn't go the way of yesterday's cosmology thread...

I was going to comment on that thread, but it immediately became filled up with stupid. As usual.

[RightWhale]

the pictures of "life"

Sample reflection spectra of earth were obtained a few years ago. Since that will have to be the standard for the time being, they will look for reflection spectra that look like that.

[TexanToTheCore]

I have been out of telescope building for a while. Does anyone know whether the superlight ceramic metallic mirrors have come down in price?. They were very light and very large.

And yes, tempers flare when optics become the subject of the dinner conversation. Not for mixed company.

[TexanToTheCore]

Sort of on topic...


I wonder if there would be a big market in Arab lands for those glasses that used to be sold in the back of comic books that allowed you to see under women's clothing. The X-ray glasses......

See through her burka.....guaranteed!

[Gumlegs]

How big a scope would you need to explore consciousness?

Not very big at all. In most cases, a proctoscope does it.

[ArGee]

It will transform our knowledge and understanding of the cosmos.

This is not a snide question but an honest one. Are there astronomers here who can tell me what contribution our knowledge and understanding of the cosmos has made to our lives? I'm not trying to attack, I am honestly curious.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

That's the James Webb Telescope, which will be built in space at the Lagrange point.

Is that aka the Crazy Eddie point or am I confusing my science fiction again?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Certainly I don't! It's the last thing I would think of doing!

You don't know what you're missing. The chicks and hunks always dig a deep discussion of optics over calamari.

Shalom.

[Professional Engineer]

Dent Arthur Dent

[Coyoteman]

Is that aka the Crazy Eddie point or am I confusing my science fiction again?

The Crazy Eddie point is from a science fiction novel, The Mote in God's Eye by Niven and Pournelle. It was a point where instantaneous travel between some stars could be accomplished.

The Lagrange points are locations in space where gravitational forces and the orbital motion of a body balance each other.

There are five Lagrangian points in the Sun-Earth system and such points also exist in the Earth-Moon system. Source.

[Gumlegs]

It isn't 42 anyway. It's butter.

Only if you're on your Last Tango.

[Ichneumon]

astronomers plan to build a bigger version, the Extremely Large Telescope (ELT), with a mirror measuring 42m in diameter.

A mirror 42 meters in diameter for the ELT? Wow, that's PFB.

[RightWhale]

I am honestly curious

As opposed to curious for nefarious purposes?

[PatrickHenry]

This is not a snide question but an honest one. Are there astronomers here who can tell me what contribution our knowledge and understanding of the cosmos has made to our lives? I'm not trying to attack, I am honestly curious.

Good question. And a deep one. The general outlook (or worldview) of a society determines the nature of that society's life. In societies where knowledge is limited, and it's generally unknown how to acquire knowledge, and indeed, where the pursuit of knowledge is actively discouraged, people tend to be passive, incurious, submissive, and accepting of authority.

But in societies like ours, a product of what we call Western Civilization, people tend to be much more individualistic, entrepreneurial, and exhibit independence of action. The acquisition of knowledge gives people a sense that individuals are efficacious -- that we have the ability to accomplish things. Great things. This spirit is totally lacking in most of the world.

You won't notice anything suddenly new because of this the project described in this article, but you won't see anything like it attempted in a Muslim society. Muslims don't go to the Moon, they don't create Silicon Valley, and they don't produce people like our Founding Fathers.

That was a long answer, but I think it's a good one. This project is an example of the spirit that makes Western Civilization different from -- and vastly superior to -- anything else that this world has ever known before.

You asked: [W]hat contribution our knowledge and understanding of the cosmos has made to our lives? Short answer: It's the sort of thing that makes us who and what we are.

[longshadow]

FR Anti-Science Thread Trashing Troll Snacks on a Farvenugen

[ArGee]

As opposed to curious for nefarious purposes?

Yes. I believe in finding out things just because you can with no real purpose. But I might also have not been aware of contributions deep space study has made to our lives.

I am aware that there are those (who shall remain nameless until they self-identify) who would use a "not really" answer to attack the entire thing. I'm NOT one of them.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Short answer: It's the sort of thing that makes us who and what we are.

It is also the sort of thing that demonstrates who and what we are.

I have nothing against climbing a mountain "becuse it's there." But if this deep space exploration ever yielded -say- the missing ingredient to my anti-gravity car I'd be happy.

The missing ingredientl, BTW, is the motor. Everything else is ready to go and pretty neat, if you ask me.

Shalom.

[RightWhale]

If nothing else, such research, which attempts to link facts with mathematics and/or physics, stimulates the very thing that some imagine lies at the root of our humanity. It is something that Wordsworth noticed that had not been brought out before and which he attempted to convey in his work.

[MHGinTN]

Understanding the Doppler effect has been pretty useful ...

[longshadow]

****How big a scope would you need to explore consciousness?****

Not very big at all. In most cases, a proctoscope does it.

Careful there; you may be underestimating the ego of some of the anti-Science Thread-Trashing blow-hards -- they like to fancy themselves as "deep thinkers," so a full blown colonoscopy could be required fathom their thoughts.

[ArGee]

Careful there; you may be underestimating the ego of some of the anti-Science Thread-Trashing blow-hards -- they like to fancy themselves as "deep thinkers," so a full blown colonoscopy could be required fathom their thoughts.

Are you saying it's a bad thing for somoene to know his shiite?

Shalom.

[Hot Tabasco]

...darn, ya beat me to it!

[RightWhale]

Today's announcement of the discovery of atomic nitrogen in a comet might be interesting as it might pertain to the search for life beyond earth.