Posted on 08/04/2006 12:59:47 PM PDT by churchillbuff
Variety reviewer Robert Koehler (formerly of the L.A. Times) recently reviewed a new documentary titled "Mr. Conservative: Goldwater on Goldwater." The main driver behind the project is his granddaughter, C.C. Goldwater, and it's scheduled to air on HBO on September 18. The list of interviewees underlines it's not a big right-wing project: it includes Walter Cronkite, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Helen Thomas, James Carville, Bob Schieffer, Andy Rooney, Julian Bond, Ben Bradlee and Sally Quinn, John Dean, and erstwhile Goldwater Girl Hillary Rodham Clinton. A few righties appear (Richard Viguerie, George Will) and some more centrist GOP types do, too (John Warner, Sandra Day O'Connor).
Here's how Koehler sums the film up: "Pic reflects on a contempo religious GOP right wing that would have profoundly alienated Goldwater, who rarely brought God into his politics."
Koehler extolled the film for showing "some of the contradictions of Goldwater, who opposed expansion of civil rights for African-Americans in the '60s and -- as various family anecdotes illustrate -- was tolerant toward gays and lesbians as well as female reproductive rights. (Daughter Joanne tells of her abortion as a young woman, and gay grandson Ty speaks warmly of him.)"
At first, Koehler seems unhappy there's not enough angst toward the religious right: "Even with an impressive roster of journos and political sharpies (including Hillary Clinton, who was a Goldwater Girl in '64 and a devout conservative in her teens), little is made of libertarian Goldwater's differences with the right-wing Christian movement that swept into the GOP in the 1980s. John Dean, whose new book, 'Conservatives Without Conscience,' began as a collaboration with longtime friend Goldwater, articulates best how Goldwater's straight-talking politics was rejected by his Bush-era party."
But he later concludes: "Response to the pic from GOP pundits and opinionmakers will provide a telling indicator of the current political climate. Walter Cronkite overstates the case that the older Goldwater turned liberal, while George Will is more on point, noting that what changed wasn't Goldwater but the GOP's extreme shift toward moralistic conservatism."
It will be interesting to hear if that's exactly how it sounds out of the mouth of Will.
Did the aliens make her do it?
I could swear that, when running for president, Goldwater advocated an amendment to let prayer back into public schools. I remember seeing a Goldwater pamphlet that quoted the Bible, "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord."
Will the real Barry Goldwater please stand up?
Donald Goldwater, the AZ GOP Gov candidate is pro-life.
Looks like I'll be cancelling HBO. When will HBO run a documentary on the influence of the extreme left wing, the one out to bring down their 2000 VP nominee all because he disagreed with them once?
Good Grief. As much as I admired Goldwater in some respects, he is but a peon in the halls of conservatism.
Goldwater has been dead over eight years. Doubt he had much of an opinion on W's party. Dean is such a Moron.
Another spot linked the corruption of government officials to moral deterioration. Goldwater exclaims, "Americans everywhere are indignant about the moral decay in Washington," while the narrator calls on voters to "put conscience back in government." A third advertisement asked "What has happened to our America? We build libraries and galleries to hold the world's greatest treasury of art—and we permit the world's greatest collection of smut to be freely available anywhere." A fourth featured Goldwater speaking directly into the camera:
Is moral responsibility out of style? Our papers and our newsreels and yes, our own observations, tell us that immorality surrounds us as never before. We as a nation are not far from the kind of moral decay that has brought on the fall of other nations and people…. [The] philosophy of something for nothing, [the] cult of individual and governmental irresponsibility, is an insidious cancer that will destroy us unless we recognize it and root it out now. Goldwater made morality the centerpiece of a 30-minute televised address that aired on CBS on October 20, 1964. After citing George Washington's dictum, "'Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports,'" Goldwater said, "The moral fiber of the American people is beset by rot and decay," and pledged "every effort to a reconstruction of reverence and moral strength."
The campaign also produced, but did not air, a television program called "Choice." It focused on the "moral issue," and featured disturbing footage of topless bars, wild beatnik parties, drunken college students, and riots by both whites and blacks. Goldwater declined to use the film in the end, but only, it seems, because he feared that scenes of blacks rioting would introduce unseemly racial overtones into the campaign. But he had no inherent objection to addressing the other issues raised in the show.
Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.'s History of American Presidential Elections included a scathing contemporaneous account from John Bartlow Martin: "Goldwater's moral strictures soon began to sound preachy; he almost castigated Americans for their wickedness…. Goldwater looked not only like the mad bomber, but the half-crazed moral zealot." Sympathetic observers would characterize his message differently, but what is clear is that Goldwater hardly eschewed moral, social, and cultural themes.
The Goldwater Myth: Why Barry Goldwater was not a "Goldwater conservative."
It's a small hall.
Excellent point. And Democrats pre-Vietnam were pro-national security from FDR to Truman to JFK. They may have been wrong in so many other ways, and even implemented national security badly, but I have no question of their commitment to the defense of this country. Other than Joe Lieberman, I can't name a single national Democrat who I think has the protection of US national security as a priority. Not one.
But HBO won't make a documentary about that huge change in the Democratic party. No, instead we should fear that religious people exercise their free speech and voting rights by influencing the Republican party. HBO has made its intolerance, contempt and bigotry against religious people, whether Mormons or now conservative religious voters, all too clear. I'll be cancelling my subscription.
The left seems to have hit on a new idea. Conservatives and the Right are NOT people
I once typed up Goldwater's home insurance policy renewal at a major insurance company.
Guess I'm pretty convinced he was not lily white by any means.
Variety reviewer Robert Koehler (formerly of the L.A. Times) recently reviewed a new documentary titled "Mr. Conservative: Goldwater on Goldwater." The main driver behind the project is his granddaughter, C.C. Goldwater, and it's scheduled to air on HBO on September 18. The list of interviewees underlines it's not a big right-wing project: it includes Walter Cronkite, Ted Kennedy, Al Franken, Helen Thomas, James Carville, Bob Schieffer, Andy Rooney, Julian Bond, Ben Bradlee and Sally Quinn, John Dean, and erstwhile Goldwater Girl Hillary Rodham Clinton. A few righties appear (Richard Viguerie, George Will) and some more centrist GOP types do, too (John Warner, Sandra Day O'Connor).Here's how Koehler sums the film up: "Pic reflects on a contempo religious GOP right wing that would have profoundly alienated Goldwater, who rarely brought God into his politics."
Harry and Bess would not be able to contain themselves in denouncing that filth, that is what would be happening.
Quix you have really piqued my curiousity. Can you expand on your earlier comment?
I'll start with my Hall of Fame:
St. Augustine
George Washington
James Madison
Ben Franklin
Edmund Burke
Adam Smith
Abraham Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Calvin Coolidge
Winston Churchill
Maggie Thatcher
Milton Friedman
CS Lewis
Jesse Helms
Thomas Sowell
Ronald Reagan
How could you include little Jemmy and George Washington and omit Thomas J?
I don't really know, but my impression is that Goldwater was a "classical" liberal pretty much. Since modern liberals retain some of the classical ideals, I believe they tend to find some sympathy for the man. 'Course modern liberals are too dumb to realize (or in some cases too dishonest too admit) that the leftist ideals which they cherish are pure death to the ideals of classical liberalism.
Will send you FREEPMAIL.
I could have easily included many of the founders, but chose Washington because he is the rock from which this nation was built (and personally very conservative) and little James because he was MOST responsible for the drafting of the constitution.
Thomas was more egalitarian and libertarian, and deserves much credit in history. However, I think Ben Franklin was the wisest of the bunch.
What the hell does that mean?
No Alexander Hamilton, the greatest man of his generation after Washington?
Uh, probably because the more you learn of Jefferson the less admirable he appears. He was the most overrated of American presidents.
Surely you jest!
Maybe it just means that though I strongly supported his run for President and read his book . . .
given all I've heard and seen in AZ over the years about him and his family etc.
I wouldn't exactly list him as my most trustworthy friends. I also doubt he was the kind of conservative I'd have a lot of faith in. I think he was too compromised by too many big people . . . not all of them all that kosher in a list of ways.
Just my opinion.
How did Teddy Roosevelt get on the list?
The man was a progressive.
I wouldn't have put Jesse Helms on an all time list, either... Although the Senate could certainly use him now. Anyway, good list!
Thanks!
Not at all. Jefferson was an underhanded sneak and a disaster as President. His only notable achievements were having Louisiana handed to him (he didn't believe its purchase was constitutional) and the Lewis and Clark expendition. Jefferson was the era's greatest rhetoritician but was clueless about the Constitution. Thank God he was out of the country during its writing and ratification as I am sure he would have opposed it.
If there was a bigger hypocrit in American history I haven't heard of him.
I have never posted a lie about anyone Jefferson included.
Any inaccuracies I will correct when they are pointed out. Point some out.
We ought to celebrate Thomas Jefferson for his many contributions to human liberty and Aaron Burr for his marksmanship in liberty's cause.
Teddy was a man's man. A conservationist, big game hunter, and yes, a conservative. He had soem "progressisve" ideas, but the word progressive back then did NOT mean left wing. He was a FRIM believer in American exceptionalism. In fact, he embodied it, to a large degree.
As long as its understood that Hamilton was not of Franklin's generation.
“Conservatism, we are told, is out-of-date. The charge is preposterous and we ought boldly to say so. The laws of God, and of nature, have no dateline. The principles on which the Conservative political position is based have been established by a process that has nothing to do with the social, economic and political landscape that changes from decade to decade and from century to century. These principles are derived from the nature of man, and from the truths that God has revealed about His creation. Circumstances do change. So do the problems that are shaped by circumstances. But the principles that govern the solution of the problems do not. To suggest that the Conservative philosophy is out of date is akin to saying that the Golden Rule, or the Ten Commandments or Aristotle's Politics are out of date. The Conservative approach is nothing more or less than an attempt to apply the wisdom and experience and the revealed truths of the past to the problems of today.” – Barry Goldwater, The Conscience Of A Conservative, 1960.
Barry Goldwater was a libertarian, western-state, "whorehouse" conservative who never had much use for religion other than to get votes. I believe he also procured an abortion for a female relative back in the Fifties.
'Ashrei ha`am 'asher bachar-bam; 'ashrei ha`am sheHaShem 'Eloqayv!
Liberalism regards human history as a "budding rose unfolding;" it develops teleologically until it reaches perfection (the "omega point") and then magically stops. And this programming took place without a Creator; in fact, the unfolding universe itself seems to be regarded as the creator.
Anyway, according to liberals, a "moderate," "centerist," "decent" person is one who keeps up with the unfolding of history (from the Tennessee Valley Authority to "gay rights") and a "dangerous radical" is a person who maintains his original position instead of changing with the times.
Was he a man's man?
Definitely-- Teddy was that and more, he was an exceptional painter, poet, historian, one could go on and on.
He was, as you say, an exceptional man who believed in the exceptionalism of America...
But he was NOT a conservative.
He believed in American exceptionalism, yes, but not in the wisdom of the Founders, or in the free market.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1660615/posts
His conservationism, while moderate and wise compared to the enviro-whacos of today, was also largely misguided, NOT because Roosevelt did not know hopw to conserve nature-- he did-- but because in grabbing land for the government to control, he assumed such wilderness areas would be managed in the future by men who knew as much about them as he did, a hope that was to be disappointed in his own lifetime: http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/1551707/posts
TR famously urged
"far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country"
Those aren't the words of a conservative.
Thomas Jefferson was sympathetic to the Jacobin Revolution in France and was supported by Jacobinical types in his political career. Ironically, it was the "secular northeast" that was terrified of Jacobinism while the cavalier South tended to be friendly, if only because it preferred Continental Europe to capitalist-mercantilist Britain.
Of course, Madison and Monroe were pro-French too.
Uh , what MrSmorch said.
I can repeat what I said earlier:
Maybe it just means that though I strongly supported his run for President and read his book . . .
given all I've heard and seen in AZ over the years about him and his family etc.
I wouldn't exactly list him as my most trustworthy friends. I also doubt he was the kind of conservative I'd have a lot of faith in. I think he was too compromised by too many big people . . . not all of them all that kosher in a list of ways.
Just my opinion.
Odd how the MSM never does the same with dems... Would there ever be a program with a young Kennedy trashing JFK or a young Kennedy being used against organized labor... NEVER. It would never happen.
The MSM's hatred of conservatives is beyond transparent... and it's sick.
And the MSM can always some nobody who wants face time on TV -- someone who can't get on any other way.
I'm sure if Goldwater had relatives who were conservative and weren't willing to trash other conservatives they wouldn't be on the show.
Yeah, no bias there.
The MSM never does the same kind of stroy with dems. Would there ever be a program with a young Kennedy trashing JFK or a young Kennedy being used against organized labor? or black poverty pimps? Nah, that wouldn't happen.
It might make dems look bad. And the unbiased MSM doesn't do that... NEVER. EVER.
Seems the MSM's hatred of conservatives is beyond transparent ... and getting sicker... We'll get to hear how progressive and open minded Goldwater was - and his one or two positive comments about gays... But his life work being a conservative? It'll get short shrift...
Liberals are soooo predictable.
Burr was a typical Jeffersonian Democrat corrupt and concerned only with self-advancement helping to form the Axis of Evil between the Southern slavers and Big City bosses which almost destroyed the Union and still plagues us today. His pique at Hamilton thwarting his career produced the killing. He would have been president but for the great man.
Like most crooks Jefferson and Burr fell out when a Constitutional anomaly produced a tie for the Presidency in 1800. Jefferson was upset that Burr would not concede that the voters' intention had been to elect Jefferson and after Hamilton (typically putting the Union above personal or party advantage) ensured his presidency turned on Burr with a fury and destroyed what was left of him after his killing of Hamilton had turned the public upon him.
It was beautiful to watch those vipers go after each other while the greatest patriot of that generation after Washington lay in the grave.
Hamilton was the man most responsible for the growth of capitalism in America rather than the Jeffersonian economic system. The latter would have condemned the US to dependence on European manufactures and cultural backwardness. His statecraft in establishing a strong foundation for the modern economy is rarely equalled in history. It assures his eternal fame and regard among those who have studied these issues further than the superficial hatred the Left has generated against him.
Hamilton's legal ideas triumphed over Jefferson's at every point culminating in the Marshall Court's iron intrepretation of the Constitution Hamilton had helped as much as ANY man to create. Hamilton's argument for the constitutionality of National Banks compared to Jefferson's against was like a man toying with a boy's argument for more candy. Jefferson's superficial and absurd argument was easily ripped to shreds and showed either a lack of understanding of the Constitution or an opportunistic venality in using arguments he could not have believed valid. I give him too much credit for intelligence to believe it was the first.
General Hamilton was, as Jefferson had to concede, "A Colossus", "A Host Within Himself". A True Lover of Liberty who fought from the earliest beginnings of the Revolution for independence. A patriot who influenced public opinion as much as any American from 1775 until his death Hamilton had no equal in the legal, financial or geo-political realms.
Jefferson's early rhetorical contributions were not matched by his later career of power. At the end of his life Washington (Hamilton's closest ally) had had so much of Jefferson's perfidy and treachery that he would not allow the name be mentioned in his presence. Washington's 20+ yr regard for Hamilton stood as high as ever and no man was ever closer to or more loved by the President than the great Alexander, the Son he never had.
No he was not. Franklin was older than Hamilton's father.
Some of Jefferson's ravings about the French Revolution are worthy of Moveon.org and Michael MOOer.
He also worked as hard as he could to keep America militarily weak. Hence, Washington was burned by 5,000 British troops in the War of 1812 brought on, in part, by the military shortsightedness of the Jeffersonians. Very Democratic.
Yep. You must read a thorough biography of Franklin, if you have not already. The most amazing man to grace America with his presence.
In fariness, Jefferson re-evaluated his support for the French Revolution as it continued to go sideways.
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