Posted on 06/13/2006 8:45:53 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
These threads always bring out the real economic differences in America. Even people who are nominally "conservative" have wildly differing opinons on whether Wal-Mart is good or evil, a retailer which provides good value or cheap junk.
I don't have a Wal-Mart near me, but the local Target store doesn't seem to have a single non-Hispanic employee. You don't see teenage white kids working there, but they seem to have enough time and money to skateboard around town all afternoon. In other parts of the country, Target would be a major employer and people would be lining up to get jobs there - here, I'm not sure how they manage to find enough workers to stay in business. Not because the labor pool doesn't exist, but because that labor pool thinks the work is beneath them. There is a core of truth behind the "jobs Americans won't do" rhetoric from Bush and others, but it applies primarily to upper middle-class suburbs. The inevitable amnesty may help suburban California retailers in the short run, it could economically devastate rural Red State areas. Illegals don't go straight to one part of the country where they are needed most and and stay there - eventually, they migrate to where the housing is cheapest and they undercut the local labor market.
Around here, at least, the opposition to Wal-Mart seems to come primarily from people who would never shop there in the first place. It's the limousine liberals who hate it the most.
If Wal-Mart stopped buying from all of them tomorrow, I'd venture to guess that none of those manufacturing jobs would return to America. If one wants to lay blame on the loss of manufacturing jobs in America, put the blame where it begins, with the global conglomerates that give no allegiance to any country. Wal-Mart may be a contributing factor, but they are not the primary cause of the loss of these jobs. Check and see how many jobs are being outsourced to China, India, etc. that Wal-Mart has no impact on. - OB1
From two different cost of living comparison websites.
Just being the middleman. California is a lovely state, if you can stand the freaks in the larger cities and the (much) higher prices.
yea, well don't believe everything you read about CA.
I don't know where you live but where I live in Orange County, CA,
I've never found a better place to live in America much less the world. And I've been everywhere, from NY to FL, AK to TX and Australia to Ireland.
Semper Fi,
Kelly
Actually, I plan on retiring to the Philippines, so California isn't even on my radar.
But, just to make a point, I compared Middlesex-Monmouth, NJ to San Jose, CA on two different cost of living comparison websites and they came up very very close to each other.
I understand that there are probably places in California that are on a par with, say, St Louis, MO. But, at least in my opinion, they are few and far between and you better have your (good paying) job before you get there.
I believe the Wal-Mart has depends on the environment it enters. In some towns/areas it's going to be a destructive force and in others it will add to the community. It depends on the demographics, geography, etc. So, you get ten Freepers and they might have ten different experiences with wal-mart.
There is truth to the "Jobs Americans won't do" talk, but it depends on the salary not the job. Some of those jobs are locked into low salaries because of the business model and profit margins. Some of those jobs have simply seen a decline in wages because of increased competition in the employment pool from illegals.
Are they illegals?
That's the only adults I see doing jobs that kids used to do.
Don't know. But if I assume that illegals = Mexican illegals, then the answer is no. I'm in NYC, a city of immigrants both legal and illegal. But I do see a lot of Haitian and African guys doing jobs kids used to do. But don't know if they're illegal or not.
In California, most of the lower end jobs are done by Hispanics.
The only fast food restaurant that doesn't employ mainly Hispanics is In-n-Out Burgers. All of their employees speak perfect English, their stores are cleaner, and they never screw up your order. Their food tastes great and there are always long lines.
At McDonald's & Burger King, their restaurants have gotten dirtier, and they are always screwing up our food orders. Most of their employees do not speak great English. We've stopped going there.
I love In-Out Burgers. I just don't understand why people deface their bumper stickers....
I solicit the business that suits ME most, regardless of where it is. If that business happens to be local, all well and good, but being the local guy isn't going to get them any passes from me.
I can tell you horror stories of buying what turns out to be cheap Chinese crap at local mom and pops, while paying jacked up prices and receiving crappy service, if you want me to take the time.
And BTW: providing a list of government programs does not back up your claim. Make a connection, provide some sources, or SOMETHING for crying out loud.
Lets say we passed a "living wage" bill. Now the person that shopped at Walmart and regularly saved $75 a month on their food bill, no longer can afford to buy their medications or they sacrifice on the food side so they can afford their medications.
What is the net benefit to society then? They could eat fewer fresh veggies a whole lot less meat. Poorer diet, poorer health multiplied by thousands of shoppers.
Maybe they spent that $75 a month they saved at Walmart paying down their debt? Maybe they spent that $75 at your store or restaurant or some other manufactured good or service that employs others.
The local nursery person (grows live plants) that supplied Walmart now needs to lay off a couple of people, because shoppers are buying less of his stock. Less discretionary dollars to spend.
I know there is not a direct correlation in dollars raising the Walmart wages vs the additional spending incurred. I would bet a huge percentage of Walmart workers shop at Walmart as they get a 10% discount. Yes, they got a 3 dollar an hour raise, but now everything in the store is much higher. So are the burgers at the fast food restaurants, as everyone got the "living wage".
TANSTAFL = There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
When a Walmart opens and they only have 3 people apply for jobs, the market is telling them they are not paying enough. When you have 8,000 applicants, the market says otherwise.
They are not really being paid $10 an hour as FICA, unemployment insurance and benefits suck up another $3.50 an hour. So that starting employee is really worth $13.50 an hour, it's just not showing up in their bank account.
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