Posted on 05/24/2006 2:52:40 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
If supported, Pence's approach is the only one that has a chance of getting passed and actually addressing the problem. If actively opposed there is a very good likelihood that NOTHING will be passed. Of course those who oppose Pence can always hope that they can get what they want passed next year but given their declarations of sitting out the election I don't think the odds will improve.
Pence's plan is King Solomonesque.
Conservatives need to support this plan, and elect more conservatives who can tweak the legislation more, similiar to what GOP-controlled state legislatures do with concealed-carry laws.
I have a bad feeling that some people in Congress and the media are going to keep fueling the fire and Pence won't have a chance.
I wasn't trying to be exact, you probably know. "Millions" could still mean "hundreds of millions." So you're right.
Regardless, it's A LOT of people that will bust the budget, and this nation as we know it will be no more if we don't stop it now. I don't hold out much hope, though. I'm afraid this country has seen its best days and is now on the decline.
How will it be secured? The Senate bill has 350 miles of fencing and the House bill has 700 miles. I don't see it being secured any time soon.
Pence's solution of having the illegals go home and be processed through Ellis Island centers by the private sector is totally unworkable.
What are they going to do when the jobs and benefits dry up? Those who really want to work here in the U.S. will go home and apply for the visa. The La Raza/MS-13 criminal illegals will be exposed and deported or imprisoned.
Dream on. They are going to stay regardless. Better to be poor and jobless in America than in Mexico. They came here at great risk and expense. They are not going back to the hell holes they came from. Moreover, there are 9 million Mexican-born residents of the US now. There is a support system in the US. If we can't enforce the immigration laws on the books now, how can we believe they will do it in the future. The same promises were made in 1986 under Simpson-Mazzoli.
Tancredo will never support this amnesty program.
Then better to have no bill. The House Reps should not be stampeded into approving amnesty for the 12 to 20 million illegals who have violated the laws of this country.
Better to support Pence's strict guest-worker provision than the administration's AMNESTY guest-worker provision.
Pence's plan is just amnesty under another name. If you gaurantee that they can return, why have them leave in the first place. This is all a shell game to sell amnesty to the American people. You can put lipstick on this pig but it still spells A-M-N-E-S-T-Y.
zat so?
well, i think not.
personally, i am flummoxed by this thralldom to a "guest worker program" by bush and some on this site.
UCLA recently did a study on the relationship between farm wages and the price of produce (the proverbial $5 a head of lettuce, and all that). per the study, farm wages account for 15% of the price at the market. in other words, of your $1.00 head of lettuce or pound basket of strawberries, farm wages are about 15 cents.
okay, everyone, let's put on our thinking caps ... what happens then if you double wages to $20 an hour, or treble them to $30, or, or, well, why not? times four to $40 an hour?
answer: head of lettuce costs a buck and a quarter. (yawn.) and, and ... all of a sudden we got a million or two american citizens in california off the welfare roles and making 80k a year, instead of a bunch of illegals living off the taxpayers. why is that such a bad idea?
and ... the $5 a head lettuce canard? the study concluded that farm wages would have to rise to $300 or $500 an hour (can't remember, but it was hundreds) for that to happen, and for that kinda dough, not only would i be the first in line to pick strawberries, but i would wager that a lot of people reading this thread would be right behind me in line.
and who would dispute that all of the farm positions would be filled by competent, capable, grateful americans ecstatic to have such a job at levels considerably less than $300 an hour. $100? $50? get it?
i'm in favor of a wall. enforcement. deportation. employers in jail. meaningful stuff.
but the answer in a way is simpler: we all pay thirty or forty cents more for a head of lettuce (big deal) and the problem goes away. moreover, potential prosperity for millions of unskilled and young americans.
and this is the crux of the problem with the whole guest worker nonsense which works as follows: place an ad: strawberry pickers for $4 an hour. no takers. (gee, whiz.) okay. then the farmer gets to bring in as much third-world trash as he wishes with the blessings of the federal government. huh?!?
well, how 'bout this instead: place another ad: $20 an hour for strawberry pickers? or $30? or whatever market forces require?
importing third-world slave labor, legally or otherwise, to undermine the basic economic law of supply and demand is not the answer. it's the problem.
why not an ad, instead of strawberry picker for four bucks an hour, oh, say, school teacher for four bucks an hour? or store manager for four bucks an hour? or engineer or doctor or nurse or tire guy for four bucks? (you know, the jobs americans won't do.)
"oh, i advertised but couldn't fill the positions. so now i get to import guatemalens."
all of them.
the answer is not to import cheap labor. the answer is to raise the pay of americans to the level that is necessary to attract and keep qualified people. simple. everyone (except george bush and the senate) knows this. (actually, they do, too. but they lie.) even harry reid. my five year old daughter knows this. it is an economic law, immutable as gravity.
and finally, what is this smug, superior attitude of everyone that strawberry pickers deserve to be abused with low wages, disrespect, etc.? what is inferior about a job (the jobs) that place food on our tables? that feed our nation as well as others?
just 'cause it doesn't take a degree from berkeley? (which i had thought we had all agreed was not necessarily a good thing?!?)
why not reward the people who actually do something good for each of us every day (putting strawberries on our tables) instead of the swine brainwashing our children to believe crap (professors at berkeley). who says a teacher should make more? (cushy indoor job. don't have to get your hands dirty. work half the year. etc. face it: if we weren't f*****g with the laws of economics, strawberry pickers WOULD be paid more than teachers.)
nothing being passed is preferable to the destruction of our country, as will result by importing hundreds of millions of illiterate, unskilled, third world non english speaking welfare recipients into america.
Yep, that will sure address the problem.
I agree! The open-border people are by far the minority. We should tell the Amnesty Senators NO!
The Senate is voting Thursday on its outrageous amnesty bill ("No Illegal Alien Left Behind Act") that would not pass without the support of the "Amnesty Republicans" -- G.O.P. Senators either supporting amnesty or undecided. Grassfire.org delivered petitions to each of these Senators Wednesday amidst a flood of phone calls for team members. Please call these Senators:
Bennett (UT), Brownback (KS), Chafee (RI), Coleman (MN)Graham (SC), Hagel (NE), Lugar (IN), Martinez (FL), McCain (AZ), Shelby (AL), Snowe (ME), Specter (PA), Stevens (AK), Voinovich (OH), Warner (VA).
See below for phone numbers
Call the Amnesty Senators now!
http://www.grassfire.org/senator_list.htm
Over 425,000 signed this petition already! Sign Here!
http://grassfire.org/42/petition.asp
Because food brokers will then begin to import Mexican lettuce at 75 cents a head, and every one of those Californians, along with other lettuce farmers, will be out of work.
the answer is not to import cheap labor. the answer is to raise the pay of americans to the level that is necessary to attract and keep qualified people. simple. everyone (except george bush and the senate) knows this. (actually, they do, too. but they lie.) even harry reid. my five year old daughter knows this. it is an economic law, immutable as gravity.
And if wages make the product more expensive than the same product imported from Mexico, I'll buy the product from Mexico. That is an economic law, immutable as gravity.
face it: if we weren't f*****g with the laws of economics, strawberry pickers WOULD be paid more than teachers.)
That line qualifies your entire post for The Dumbest Post of the Day Award.
but i made an affirmative effort to be nice to you.
did i succeed? did i offend you? even a little? did trying to be nice make me even more of a dick than i am when i say: you stupid so and so?
actually, my inquiry is sincere, and you may post your response here for all to see.
just recently, someone wrote to me privately and told me this ee cummings wannabee thing is immature and unbecoming.
so, honestly, i really do want to clean up my act.
well, a little bit anyway.
i wear it as a badge of pride that i periodically get banned at fr for bomb throwing, but they always let me back.
bingo! i guess the question thus is whether we are going to have mexicans pick our lettuce in mexico (without the attendant social costs) or in america (with the attendant social costs).
guess that changes who gets the "Dumbest Post of the Day Award." hmm? doncha think? dumbass?
hey. wait. i remember you. you're the guy who pushed furiously for nafta, mexta, poofta, and everything else over the commonsense objections of everyone else for years. yeah. that was you. i remember.
so do the rest of us.
if i understand you correctly (and admit it, you were a little terse), you are suggesting that it's the senate amnesty bill or nothing. not wishing to be offensive, nevertheless, if i might be so bold, may i ask how you got to my post 68 on this thread without being able to read and write english?
sensible alternatives to importing the entire third world, illiterate, unskilled, non english speaking welfare recipients abound here on freerepublic.
Oh, but I was responding to your all or nothing approach.
oh, but i was responding to your all or nothing approach.
LOL! Pence's approach is not all or nothing.
neither is tom tancredo's. or mine. or any of 20,000 freepers who have taken the time to put together better immigration packages than the senate's.
shit. i forgot the "LOL." intending to signify that your position is so obviously wrong as to induce bellylaughs.
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