Bill seeks to require guns to tag ammunition

Contra Costa Times ^ | 4/21/6 | Rebecca Rosen Lum

[SmithL]

California could become the first state in the nation to require semi-automatic handguns include microscopic equipment for pressing an identifying mark into every bullet fired.

Through newly developed technology, the firing pin of a semi-automatic weapon can stamp the gun's make and model onto a bullet shell as it leaves the chamber. The technology could help police investigate homicides and trace gun trafficking.

Thirty-three California police chiefs and two county sheriffs support a bill, sponsored by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, that would require the markers.

"It has the potential to solve some significant crimes in some pretty large numbers," Koretz said in a telephone interview.

Officers could quickly match the casing numbers to weapons on a state gun sales database maintained by the California Department of Justice.

It's the second go-round for the bill, which passed the Assembly easily last year but was defeated in the Senate. This year, the votes are there, Koretz said.

Nearly 1,800 Californians lost their lives to gun violence in 2004, according to the state Department of Justice. But police make arrests in only 55 percent of homicides due to the lack of sufficient evidence.

Sam Paredes, director of the 30,000-member California Gun Owners Association, said proponents of the bill are engaging in "a lot of wishful thinking" if they believe mandating the technology will turn that around.

"All it takes is a few swipes (on the pin) with a sandpaper or nail file, and (the marker) is gone," he said.

He called the technology "laughable," saying trigger-happy criminals could outwit police investigators by picking up spent shells at a shooting range and sprinkling them at a crime scene.

That drew a big laugh from Todd Lizotte, who developed the technology for use in laser printers while he was vice president of NanoVia, a semiconductor and microelectronic equipment manufacturer bought by Hitachi in 2003.

There's nothing stopping perpetrators of gun violence from doing that now, he said.

"The truth is, nobody ever does that," he said. "When people talk about these issues, they tend to raise the common criminal up to the level of criminal mastermind and the police down to the level of (cartoon character) Wile E. Coyote."

The pin is nearly as hard as a diamond, he said. In addition, the markers on the pin are invisible to the naked eye.

The technology expands on the incidental markings that already appear on cartridge casings, Lizotte said. "Instead of relying on randomly created marks, we're placing an identifier specific to that firearm."

Hitachi acquired NanoVia, but not its ballistic imaging component. That went to ID Dynamics, a holding company founded by Lizotte and his partners.

An Assembly revote is being held up while Koretz and Assemblyman Jay La Suer, R-San Diego, the bill's chief critic, agree on a date for a demonstration.

"I told him if they're able to file (the pin) down, I'll halt the bill," Koretz said. "My understanding of the technology is that it's pretty foolproof."

The bill has the support of state Attorney General Bill Lockyer and police chiefs from Los Angeles. Also supporting the bill are police chiefs from four cities in Alameda County -- Berkeley, Oakland, Pleasanton and San Leandro -- and six cities in Contra Costa County -- Antioch, Clayton, Kensington, Richmond, San Pablo and Walnut Creek. The Alameda County Sheriff also supports the bill.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger does not comment on pending bills, a spokeswoman said.

Parendes of the Gun Owners Association said the bill "doesn't stand the chance of a snowball in the deep, dark center of the earth."

Meanwhile, a growing number of cities and counties are voting on resolutions supporting the bill. One in Contra Costa County, sponsored by Supervisors John Gioia of Richmond and Mark DeSaulnier of Concord, squeaked by in a 3-2 vote April 11.

Supervisor Gayle Uilkema of Lafayette said the bill amounts to an unfunded state mandate with counties left to pick up the costs. But the bill's supporters say there are no costs to local government.

Outfitting new guns will cost the manufacturers 25 cents to 50 cents per firearm, Lizotte said. More than 70 percent of new handguns sold in California are semi-automatic.

"I question people who opposed something so straightforward," said Griffin Dix, California state council president of the Million Mom March. "You can put an identifying number on every container of yogurt you sell, but not on a gun?"

[SmithL]

Bob Pepping/Times

Terence Wong, Contra Costa County deputy sheriff criminalist, says shell casings from guns with microscopic stamping equipment care a unique "signature" from the firing pin used to fire them. A state bill would require all semi-automatic handguns to be so equipped.

[MeanWestTexan]

Any knowledgeable hitman uses a revolver anyway.

Generally a .22, in fact.

[MeanWestTexan]

Any knowledgeable hitman uses a revolver anyway.

Generally a .22, in fact.

[rellimpank]

--here we go again--

[eastforker]

This is so stupid. It would be so easy to erase the die on the end of the firing pin.

[VRing]

"The pin is nearly as hard as a diamond"

This kind of stuff is just laughable.

[coloradan]

How soon will it be that you can buy a firing pin on eBay that stamps "This gun ow3ed by Diane Feinstein" on every shell?

[G.Mason]

Amusing.

[WorkerbeeCitizen]

And when they can't do it, (Technically), the semi-auto pistol becomes an illegal gun - how convenient.

[eastforker]

I also like the idea of sprinkling spent casing from a firing range.

[GSlob]

What are they thinking with? There are aftermarket replacement firing pins. And nothing's easier than removing a firearm firing pin and polishing it.

[Redcloak]

"You can put an identifying number on every container of yogurt you sell, but not on a gun?"

That's because people, generally speaking, don't use the same yogurt container over and over again. They do, however, reload firearms after firing a few rounds through them. (They're not like throw-away cameras where you toss them when all of the pictures have been taken.) If people used yogurt containers like they do firearms, then the serial numbers would wear off in short order.

[rarestia]

I smell a mass exodus of gun manufacturers selling in The People's Republik of Kalifornia. This law is absolutely ridiculous, and it's another attempt to subvert the Constitution of the United States. Go to Hell you Kalifornia sycophants! Give us our freedom, lest we take away yours at the ballot box!

[Tarantulas]

A "bullet shell?" Jeeeez...

Multimillion-dollar initiative defeated by less than a penny's worth of sandpaper.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

It's SOP among criminals to file the serial number off any gun they intend to use in a crime.

It will take any criminal thirty secons with a file to disable this thing.

The only people affected will be law-abiding gunowners.

[pikachu]

I'm sure that they will not have much success and just insist on installing a LoJack on each shell.

[mvpel]

No "technically" about it. Another way to harass law-abiding gun owners.

Next thing you know, they'll require licensing and registration for these:

Woodworkers, beware!

[CrawDaddyCA]

"It has the potential to solve some significant crimes in some pretty large numbers," Koretz said in a telephone interview.

Oh, please! This is nothing but an attempt at back door gun banning. As I see it, the motive is to make gun makers stop doing business in California.

Then, after the guns are banned, they call all sit together around the campfire singing 'kumbaya' and live in perfect peace with the earth.

[xenophiles]

The technology expands on the incidental markings that already appear on cartridge casings, Lizotte said. "Instead of relying on randomly created marks, we're placing an identifier specific to that firearm."

Um... why? Prosecutors have long asserted that those "randomly created marks" are sufficiently distinct and identifiable to send people to jail, so what's the point of this new technology?

Could it be that the only real purpose is to make all existing guns illegal?

[Tennessee_Bob]

You can have my Swiss files when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers!

[dfwright]

Gee, according to what I see on CSI, they never have trouble identifying the exact gun from a spent casing or a bullet.

[magslinger]

This isn't about solving crime, it's about driving up the cost of firearms until us serfs can't afford them.

liberal ruling elite mode

Only the police and limousine liberals' body guards should have weapons.

/liberal ruling elite mode

[expat_panama]

Not to worry.

Legislators are now drafting a law that requires gun dealers to only sell to 'nice' people.

[Puppage]

"It has the potential to solve some significant crimes in some pretty large numbers,"

Let's see....Maryland & NY have had BULListic "fingerprinting" for 10 years and it has solved HOW many crimes?

ZIPPO

[noobiangod]

And what happens when the bad guys start using revolvers and shotguns?

[garyhope]

I guess they never heard of extra and replaceable firing pins and barrels. Or revolvers, casing catchers, stolen guns, or guns simply tossed in the river or dumpster, etc.

[gondramB]

"And when they can't do it, (Technically), the semi-auto pistol becomes an illegal gun - how convenient."

Yeah, I don't care if my guns stamp or not just like I didn't mind being fingerprinted to get my carry license because I'm never gonna do anything with a gun I'm ashamed of.

But the problem is they don't just want to stamp guns they want to ban them and this is just today's tactic to advance that agenda.

[antiRepublicrat]

They want a Lawgiver, but the tech just isn't there yet.

[Puppage]

Then, after the guns are banned, they call all sit together around the campfire singing 'kumbaya' and live in perfect peace with the earth.

Yes, that's correct. Because we ALL know that the world was one big hug-fest prior to the invention of gunpowder.

[Fred911]

Naturally, all criminals will rush right out to purchace these new guns. You wouldn't want to rob someone with an illegal gun.....

[kerryusama04]

What are they thinking with? There are aftermarket replacement firing pins. And nothing's easier than removing a firearm firing pin and polishing it.

The (antis) don't give a rip about the technology. They are just trying to make guns so expensive that only Dianne Feinstein can afford them.

[Yo-Yo]

While we're at it, lets pass a law that mandates the rifling of a handgun barrel be recut so they leave barcoded rifling marks that indicate the serial number of the weapon...whoops, they might actually try it!

[Puppage]

And what happens when the bad guys start using revolvers and shotguns?

Hey, no fair using facts! We deal in feeeeeelings.

[gondramB]

"Naturally, all criminals will rush right out to purchace these new guns. You wouldn't want to rob someone with an illegal gun....."

Another excellent point. Although I suppose this is better than requiring all gun to be smart guns.

[freepatriot32]

ping

[Puppage]

While we're at it, lets pass a law that mandates the rifling of a handgun barrel be recut so they leave barcoded rifling marks that indicate the serial number of the weapon

Or, maybe we should just call the police before we leave our house. Tell them where we're going, and when we will return.Perhaps, take plaster cast molds of our vehicles tires so they have them on file.

After all..it's just a crime fighting tool./sarc.

[mountainlyons]

A little grinder would take the stamp off or modify it. Why not go after criminals and not go after Innocent people's rights?

[Oztrich Boy]

trigger-happy criminals could outwit police investigators by picking up spent shells at a shooting range and sprinkling them at a crime scene.
That drew a big laugh from Todd Lizotte.
There's nothing stopping perpetrators of gun violence from doing that now, he said.

Well Todd the reason they don't do it now is bevause any match only takes place, after the cops get hold of a suspected gun. So extaraneous casings don't impede the investigation,

HoWever if "Officers could quickly match the casing numbers to weapons on a state gun sales database maintained by the California Department of Justice." then all those matched gus have to be investigated.

[AngryJawa]

Woodworkers, beware!

I forsee a day when I'll get a visit from the F Troop regarding an unregistered mill bastard file.

I hope they don't manage to shoot my dog during the visit.

[paul51]

"All it takes is a few swipes (on the pin) with a sandpaper or nail file, and (the marker) is gone," he said.

This will give the gestapo a reason to confiscate every weapon they ever see to determine if the pin has been tampered with. This is the real objective. The owner may get their weapon back in a few years.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

"How soon will it be that you can buy a firing pin on eBay that stamps "This gun owned by Diane Feinstein" on every shell?"

Good one, LOL

[Roccus]

Well, let's say the mark says the shell came from a certain model Glock. Then the LEO go around and collect all the registered Glocks of that model from law abiding citizens. After their exhaustive tests, LEO find that none of these weapons were used in this crime. They then tell the owners that after filling out forms 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8(a) they can retrieve their weapons. Of course, no funds have been allocated to hire enough civil servants to check the validity of the information supplied by the law abiding citizen on forms 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 8(a), so the owner will have to wait for maybe a year to get his weapon back. Now if we extrapolate the number of crimes committed by perps using this model of Glock times one year, there will be no Glocks of this model in private hands until the year 4257.

[tumblindice]

The Democrats think `F Troop' is a History channel Old West documentary.
(rimshot-Whoa, hey--I'm here all week)

[absolootezer0]

load extremely hot loads, melt the primer back.. nah, no criminal would think of that.

[xenophiles]

It's SOP among criminals to file the serial number off any gun they intend to use in a crime.

This may be a naive question, but... why?

It seems to me the only time to file off the number is when you don't want it traced back to you. Logically, this means that
1) you acquired the gun legitimately (or the number wouldn't lead to you)
2) you intend to get rid of it (or removing the number wouldn't help you)
3) you're doing something wrong with this gun (or why bother),

and maybe two more conditions:
4) you can't legally sell the gun or maybe the bad thing you did is clearly specific to you (or else you'd sell it for a better price than an effaced gun would get), and
5) you won't have to account for the whereabouts of the gun later.

Now maybe you'd want to do this when you're, say, murdering someone you know and you want to file off the number and throw the gun into a waste bin and then claim that it was stolen and try to stare down the suspicious police. But this must be very rare.

A much more likely scenario is that you were supposed to destroy the gun but sold it instead...

[bill1952]

Yes, they file it off, but that doesn't help.

Forensic tests can see those numbers.

Those numbers, however are deeply stamped into the metal, not like what they are talking about here.

In this case you could file down the firing pin so that it would leave no mark.

[Havok]

"It's SOP among criminals to file the serial number off any gun they intend to use in a crime."

Just an FYI on filing off serial numbers. It doesn't work. Since the numbers are stamped into the metal, the metal under those numbers are denser because of that. Any police lab-tech can still get the serial number off the weapon regardless, using a few known procedures.
But yes, being a gun owner myself, any anti-gun laws only effect law-abiding citizens.

[A Strict Constructionist]

It sounds to me as if Lizotte and his partners are not doing to well in the market place. I think we should make his propriatary product "public domain."

[Roccus]

See my #42

[BooksForTheRight.com]

Join the NRA. These people will not stop until all law-abiding citizens have no means to defend selves and all remaining firearms are in the hands of criminals.
It's about taking from the "haves" and giving it to the "have nots".