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If Rumsfeld's so bad, why didn't generals resign?
Chicago Sun Times ^ | April 17, 2006 | BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB

Posted on 04/17/2006 5:48:39 AM PDT by .cnI redruM

There is a great furor over whether the opinions of a number of retired high-ranking officers should tip the balance in the ongoing debate over the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

But the question really isn't whether Rumsfeld should resign. He has already resigned several times and had President Bush tear up his letters of resignation. He clearly is taking responsibility for his actions on a continuing basis.

But now that a galaxy of flag officers are raining down on Rumsfeld demanding his resignation, no one seems to have bothered to ask which, if any, of these generals had ever submitted his own resignation in protest against the conduct of the Iraq war, or the bumpy transition we are locked in now. The demands for Rumsfeld's resignation began with Gen. Anthony Zinni.

(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: generals; hypocrites; hypocrits; mmqbs; moneymoneymoney; rumsfeld; thomaslipscomb; whiners
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Not a single one of these people offered their own resignation over these supposedly evil policies. Every single one of them waited until they got their pampered retirements.
1 posted on 04/17/2006 5:48:43 AM PDT by .cnI redruM
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To: .cnI redruM
If i remember correctly, Zinni was in charge in Iraq when things looked really bad. Was it not his fault?
2 posted on 04/17/2006 5:51:20 AM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: .cnI redruM; Rummyfan; DevSix
Marine LtGen Newbold did resign, in essence, although he didn't speak out against Rummy when doing so. He had been rumored as possible Commandant of the Marine Corps material, but decided to retire rather than get his fourth star (citing fatigue and family concerns, IIRC).

And I'm not arguing the gist of the article. Not at all. Merely pointing out one exception I happen to know about.

Thank God for Rummy!

Donald Rumsfeld should only resign to accept the GOP nomination for President of the United States!

3 posted on 04/17/2006 5:52:43 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: fireforeffect

He certainly bore a lot more of the responsibility than he has been willing to own up to.


4 posted on 04/17/2006 5:53:00 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Coop
In that case, I like Gen NewBold a lot more than the others. He's put his money where his mouth is.
5 posted on 04/17/2006 5:53:53 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: .cnI redruM

I think he's an armchair quarterbacking putz. But to each his own! :-)


6 posted on 04/17/2006 5:54:50 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: .cnI redruM

You don't go against your superiors at time of war, or damage the morale of our troops.
Shame on the Generals!


7 posted on 04/17/2006 5:55:14 AM PDT by stopem (America is not a Cash Cow!)
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To: Coop

Further, people that worked with Newbold speculated it was because he did not like Rummy's management style (too hands on for his liking). Newbold at the time said he didn't want to put his family through yet another move, which would basically be a guarentee with the 4th star.


8 posted on 04/17/2006 5:58:42 AM PDT by elc
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To: .cnI redruM
Well said!

And you make Brit Hume's point.

What they're complaining about took place 3 or 4 years ago...

...Why didn't they complain then???

9 posted on 04/17/2006 6:00:41 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: stopem
You don't go against your superiors at time of war, or damage the morale of our troops. Shame on the Generals!

That's been my thoughts all along. The only people these generals are hurting are the military men and women they are supposed to care about. I am appalled at their willingness to hurt the war effort and stab our President and Commander in Chief in the back.

I hope this backfires and that they'll retire with a traitorous lable on their military careers by their peers and the majority of Americans.

10 posted on 04/17/2006 6:03:47 AM PDT by demkicker (democrats and terrorists are familiar bedfellows)
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To: Coop

"Marine LtGen Newbold did resign, in essence, although he didn't speak out against Rummy when doing so. He had been rumored as possible Commandant of the Marine Corps material, but decided to retire rather than get his fourth star (citing fatigue and family concerns, IIRC)."

Rumored? There are lots of rumors. Read my tagline.


11 posted on 04/17/2006 6:04:46 AM PDT by rightazrain (Link me to some proof so I can put my rumor to rest.)
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To: .cnI redruM
Excellent counterpoint to the handful of generals bashing Rummy. Touche'. End of discussion. Or as Archie Bunker might have said: "case closed".
12 posted on 04/17/2006 6:08:06 AM PDT by manwiththehands (I'm a single issue voter this year: illegal immigration.)
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To: .cnI redruM

Except for Zinni who retired before 9-11 and Riggs who was forced out, they did resign. They also retired but in effect they resigned.


13 posted on 04/17/2006 6:10:11 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Guenevere

It's a congressional election year, they likely have been swayed by the DNC to speak out. I agree that if they had such deep concerns, they should have resigned then, showing some spine.


14 posted on 04/17/2006 6:13:06 AM PDT by astounded (We don't need no stinkin' rules of engagement...)
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To: Guenevere
What they're complaining about took place 3 or 4 years ago... ...Why didn't they complain then???

Because going public with dirty laundry while you're still a general would probably have ramifications

15 posted on 04/17/2006 6:21:55 AM PDT by Go Gordon (I don't know what your problem is, but I bet its hard to pronounce)
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To: leadpenny

No, retiring is not the same as resigning.


16 posted on 04/17/2006 6:22:20 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Go Gordon

>>>>Because going public with dirty laundry while you're still a general would probably have ramifications

Like what? Being made to resign?


17 posted on 04/17/2006 6:23:06 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Coop

General Matthew Ridgeway retired two months before his term was up because he was unable to agree with the Eisenhower administration on the proper size of the U.S. Army. He wanted a big army fueled by the draft; Ike and his sec of defence Charlies Wilson wanted a smaller one (800,000 by the way!). He even got his book out a couple of years later, explaining his views. Not incidentally, twenty years later General Ridgeway was saying that the volunteer army would never work. We, of course, have the case of General MacArthur. The predecessors of the same Democrats who defended Truman on the basis of the principle of civilian supremacy over the military--a cornerstone of our constitutional system, are now put in the position that the Republicans were in 1951, which is to criticize the policy and applauid the servive of the generals without acknowledging the right of the military to determine public policy.


18 posted on 04/17/2006 6:23:21 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: .cnI redruM

Good letter. One quibble: I wouldn't call six retired generals "a galaxy". They're more like a constellation. Let's call them "The Big Dipper."


19 posted on 04/17/2006 6:24:24 AM PDT by wizardoz
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To: .cnI redruM
Like what? Being made to resign?

I have heard of threats (no, I have no proof) regarding pensions. Whether they could be pulled off is another story, but at the general/flag officer level that's a significant amount of money/privileges.

20 posted on 04/17/2006 6:25:01 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: .cnI redruM

Kind of gives a glimpse of the ideology of our congress critters.


21 posted on 04/17/2006 6:26:17 AM PDT by buck61
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To: .cnI redruM

Semantically you are correct, but that's it.


22 posted on 04/17/2006 6:28:22 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: fireforeffect

Guilt association?
Zinni was week in his command, he couldn't help him self, his former commander in chief trained him to be weak.


23 posted on 04/17/2006 6:29:48 AM PDT by buck61
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To: rightazrain

How do you know that he was not allowed to resign to save face? It is well known that wartime leadership requires different skills than being a peacetime general. The latter are promoted for political manuvering, and what these men are doing is all political. No surprise they were not needed in the WOT.


24 posted on 04/17/2006 6:29:51 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: leadpenny
No, there's a much bigger difference than semantics. Resigning and publicly stating why you are resigning is laying it on the line. Just turning down a promotion and accepting a smaller retirement check is not a legitimate proxy.

This is particularly true if you later demand the immediate resignation of somebody else.
25 posted on 04/17/2006 6:34:22 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Coop
He had been rumored as possible Commandant of the Marine Corps material

An extremely remote possibility.

26 posted on 04/17/2006 6:36:43 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
An extremely remote possibility.

I'm not arguing that. :-) Especially watching him in action now. But he did hold a high profile J-3 position (I think) on the Joint Staff.

27 posted on 04/17/2006 6:39:11 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: elc

I wouldn't care to go to IBM, EXXON, Mobil, GE, Westinghouse
are any other company and I would find many of these know it all generals. But we all know who holds the power as long as there is success in these corporations.
Rumsfeld will be known in history as one of the best military CEO America has ever had.
If I were him I would be very careful who else is lurking in the back ground, there will be others, Hillterbeast has found something to get her canines into for her campaign.


28 posted on 04/17/2006 6:40:24 AM PDT by buck61
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To: .cnI redruM

Did any of the six get a 'bump' before retirement?


29 posted on 04/17/2006 6:49:24 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: Coop

When Newbold refused to continue giving briefings to the press after being kidded by Rumsfeld and Myers about saying the Taliban had been eviscerated he showed his hand of being a thing skinned, immature, weasel. Any stock he had prior to that went right down the s****er.


30 posted on 04/17/2006 6:50:12 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Roccus
That totally doesn't matter to me. If a person is going to ask for someone else's head on a silver platter, they had better offer their own necks up first or their credibility equals zero.
31 posted on 04/17/2006 6:50:35 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Roccus

Bump? You mean a promotion? There's a service obligation if you accept a promotion (generally two years, although it might be more at the general/flag level).


32 posted on 04/17/2006 6:50:58 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
When Newbold refused to continue giving briefings to the press after being kidded by Rumsfeld and Myers about saying the Taliban had been eviscerated he showed his hand of being a thing skinned, immature, weasel. Any stock he had prior to that went right down the s****er.

I remember reading about that, but do not recall it as it actually occurred. :-)

33 posted on 04/17/2006 6:51:43 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: .cnI redruM

"Resigning and publicly stating why you are resigning is laying it on the line."

Now you're adding your own definition.

Nothing anywhere says you have to make a big noise when you leave. Actions are sometimes enough.

BTW, we don't know what any of these generals said to the Army CofS on their way out the door.


34 posted on 04/17/2006 6:53:08 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: .cnI redruM

The ppor babies got their feelings and egos hurt when Rummy demanded they have their stuff togetehr when they went in to see him. They're used to trampling on subordinates, not having it done to them for being less than 100% competent.


35 posted on 04/17/2006 6:54:20 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: leadpenny

If a person is going to ask for someone else's head on a silver platter, they had better offer their own necks up first or their credibility equals zero.


36 posted on 04/17/2006 6:55:13 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Coop; .cnI redruM
IIRC Brit Hume yesterday mentioned that they did not get expected promotions and that this was mostly sour grapes.
IMO, if these officers felt at the time the way they say they feel now, they were derelict in not voicing their objections.
37 posted on 04/17/2006 6:56:23 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: Roccus

In the Army; certainly. He's attempted to reinvent that service's entire culture. No Old Boy network ever dies a peaceful death.


38 posted on 04/17/2006 7:04:02 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Watching the Left turn on Senator McCain amuses me somehow....)
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To: Guenevere
I am sure they did register their complaints through the Chain of Command just as I'm sure that the requests for more troops have been denied.

It is dangerous to have a person in charge who has quit not once but twice. Rumsfeld needs to be replaced.

39 posted on 04/17/2006 7:05:03 AM PDT by Yasotay
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To: .cnI redruM
The Perfumed Princes are having their little hissy fits.

Admiral Zinni is an anti-Semite Democrat.....a real Israel hater.

40 posted on 04/17/2006 7:05:28 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy
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To: fireforeffect

No, Zinnie was the officer who decided that Yemen was a safe port for our ships. Of course, that was right before the Cole bombing. The guy really doesn't have good judgement and was a failure at every job he was given after the Cole.


41 posted on 04/17/2006 7:07:18 AM PDT by McGavin999 (The US media is afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder)
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To: .cnI redruM

So says you.

It may be years before we know what happened at the time of their exit. I stand by my original words, "in effect."


42 posted on 04/17/2006 7:07:37 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Yasotay
It is dangerous to have a person in charge who has quit not once but twice.

1) No it's not.
2) Offering to fall on your sword and having your offer rejected is not quitting.

Rumsfeld needs to be replaced.

No, he doesn't. But keep telling us how he should. Maybe the President will sacrifice the GWOT to appease your concerns. :-D

43 posted on 04/17/2006 7:07:44 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: Roccus

There is a famous case of a general under LBJ who was going to resign and tell the press how badly the Viet Nam War was being run. He did not and later regretted it. I do not know the man's name.

People turn against those who do the right thing. We are more comfortable with letting things go.

These generals are chickens and traitors. They should not be doing this during a war.


44 posted on 04/17/2006 7:08:11 AM PDT by sine_nomine (I voted for George Milhouse Bush.)
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To: Suzy Quzy

Zinni was a Marine general.


45 posted on 04/17/2006 7:08:17 AM PDT by Coop (Proud founding member of GCA - Gruntled Conservatives of America)
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To: .cnI redruM

I find the headline disturbing and dumb. A General - like every soldier - isn´t serving a special DefSec but his country.
If a General/Private votes Republican and the Democrats win, shall he resign? No, he shall do his duty for his nation!
If a General/Private votes Democratic and the Republicans win, shall he resign? No, he shall do his duty for his nation!
That´s democratic - we accept the outcome of elections. That doesn´t ban a state employee to express his disapproval with politicians or orders (given he obeys the special regulations for that, as it was done in the mentioned case).


46 posted on 04/17/2006 7:08:49 AM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: Yasotay

If these objections had been voiced through the chain of command, as you suggest, do you think for one minute that Seymore Hirsch's moles in the Pentagon would not have had him screaming this from the rooftops?

Sheeeesh!


47 posted on 04/17/2006 7:09:44 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: .cnI redruM

Did Patton resign, even though he had more than his share of beefs with Ike and FDR?


48 posted on 04/17/2006 7:09:56 AM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: dfwgator

Nope! He go murdered instead.


49 posted on 04/17/2006 7:12:13 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: .cnI redruM

I think it's obvious why the generals made no complaints four years ago.

Because they weren't working a book project, consulting to the mainstream media, or trying to get a Democrat nomination back then!


50 posted on 04/17/2006 7:13:03 AM PDT by RBroadfoot
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