Unarmed Mahwah Man Repeatedly Shot-Where is Virgil Tibbs when you need him?

Whatever the actual percentage of racial mixture, should they be shot down like dogs? >>>

they shoot at any visitors and any investigators who comes near them.

Thanks for asking.

I have a court date on the 20th. Some people had called the town to offer help, but the town told them not to.

Where did you get the idea that the people on Stag Hill shoot at strangers? I have heard that about them, as well as some people who live on Grove Street in Mahwah. I never, ever had any problem when I went to either of those places. I also was friends with a couple that lived up there all there lives up until they died about eight years ago-the nicest people you could ever meet-they were part of the Mann clan.

Besides- if they really were shoot first and ask questions later type of people, how come they were the only ones who got shot?

It isn't funny in a "haha" way, but I did tell Allison Pries at The Record last month about a family up there who had had there house taken away when they applied for a roofing permit-it is quite a story. I wonder if she had written the truth about what had actually happened to me-if that man would have been shot?

They seem to be getting more reckless in their attacks on the citizenry.

Where did you get the idea that the people on Stag Hill shoot at strangers? >>>

Idea? Concrete evidence, in Passaic County in Ringwood, I know people who worked for the county who have gone up there to investigate welfare fraud and the like and were shot at.

Point taken.

The man from the Bergen County Mosquito Control told me that people had pulled knives on him when he would go to investigate complaints.

He said it was because people would use him as a means of harassing their neighbors (among other things).

The county changed their system so that the local authorities would handle those calls, and if they needed help -chemicals, or adding fish to water, then the county would come in.

I suppose if someone were actively engaged in fraud that they might use a gun--- then again maybe they were tired of being harassed.

I never had a problem with the tribe members when I've gone up the mountain in Mahwah.

This is from The paper: April 7th

LAWRENCE AARON
Sorting out the Ramapough Mountain Indian episode

Friday, April 7, 2006

By LAWRENCE AARON
RECORD COLUMNIST

LITTLE WONDER investigators are striking out in their attempt to get witnesses to talk to them about last weekend's melee in the mountains that left Emil Mann clinging to life.

When you have a history of being roughed up and mistreated at the hands of police, you're not likely to go out of your way to help them if you don't absolutely have to.

About 10 people were questioned. Investigators are seeking more.

Dozens of Ramapough Mountain Indians were at a familiar picnic spot in the woods last weekend. The fracas was triggered when the park's police officers arrived to enforce a state ban against all-terrain vehicles in state parks. Community residents say tension escalated after a parks policewoman, Lt. Kelly Gottheiner sprayed a 14-year-old girl with chemical Mace and slapped her.

Police said her father, Otis Mann, 43, tussled with Gottheiner. He was Maced and arrested, and remained jailed until yesterday when he made bail after a Bergen County judge reduced it from $100,000 to $20,000. His cousin Emil Mann was the only one shot by police. They accused him of interfering.

Numerous officers from surrounding communities arrived carrying heavy firepower. It's a miracle that more violence was averted.

A few members from the community complained about how they were treated at the Mahwah Police Department while being questioned after the Saturday picnic shooting.

The Ramapough Mountain Indian communities have a long history of contentious relations with police agencies. This incident suggests little has changed for the better.

"I think it's one of the reasons why some witnesses have elected not to come forward to offer information about the case," said Bergen County Prosecutor John Molinelli, whose office is leading the investigation. "I don't necessarily blame them. I know that there is that level of mistrust up there, but I'm doing my best."

And while authorities were grumbling about the lack of cooperation from the Ramapoughs, the Ramapoughs were lamenting the lack of cooperation from investigators.

For one thing, it took two days for the community to learn the name of officer Chad Walder, 34, the park ranger whose shots left Emil Mann fighting for his life at Hackensack University Medical Center.

In addition, neither violations of ATV restrictions in the park nor officers' apprehension about the Ramapoughs warranted use of firearms.

If Mann hasn't had enough to push him over the edge yet, how about adding the charges filed against him by the officer who put him in the hospital?

The Ramapough Mountain Indians' leader, Chief Anthony Van Dunk, wants to know why Emil Mann had to be charged at all. He thinks the parks police goofed and they're getting help to cover their backsides.

Reports differ about how Mann came to be shot. Ramapough reports relayed to Van Dunk indicate that Mann tried to act as peacekeeper, stepping in to stop his cousin, Otis Mann, who reportedly had seized Gottheiner's night stick.

But Molinelli said investigators believe Emil Mann was some distance away from the action. Trying to reconstruct the scenario, investigators want to determine how the actions were interrelated. Otis Mann, 34, and Emil Mann, 45, face similar charges.

Molinelli said the charges against Emil Mann relate to interfering with police, assaulting police, and resisting arrest and are similar to those for which Otis Mann was jailed.

Now here's the kicker: Molinelli indicates Walder and the three other park officers initially on the scene were operating outside their jurisdiction.

The action that took place was not on state property, Molinelli said. The property is part of the county, which means police jurisdiction is under the county, not the state.

Technically, Bergen County Police would have had jurisdiction along with Mahwah, which showed up on the scene but made no arrests. Park police would not have had jurisdiction, Molinelli said.

A DEP spokesperson said more documents and maps need to be examined to determine whether the property falls under state parks control. They will and continue to examine map coordinates for an accurate location.

So a Saturday in the park has nearly claimed the life of a family man, Emil Mann, who works for a municipal parks department in Rockland County.

Appointed chief earlier this year, Van Dunk, 43, has his work as tribal leader cut out for him. The first priority is helping Emil Mann's family through the crisis. The next has to be sensitivity training to create better understanding between the world of the Ramapoughs and law enforcement and other outsiders.

Record Columnist Lawrence Aaron can be contacted at aaron@northjersey.com. Send comments about this column to oped@northjersey.com.

I know more than you think.

Personally, I do not believe your claim unless there were extenuating circumstances.
I have friends who are Ramapo Mountain People.
I have been all over stag hill and have been up there day or night and more times than I can count and have never had a gun pointed at me. In fact near the summit of the hill my vehicle broke down (during the 80's I think) and every single passing car stopped and asked if I needed any help or wanted a ride. I have been in some of their houses and everybody I knew up there was courteous and hospitable to a fault.
They are not isolationists, they distrust any type of authority (and with good reason if you study the past).
I know people from the Mann, DeFreese, and Van Dunk Families they are decent people. I hear the stories of people who fear venturing to go up stag hill and 'chicken out' but I try to educate them and explain that nobody will bother them. I am not painting the Ramapo's as saints of course there is sometimes trouble there but trouble can be found anywhere, there's a couple of bad apples in any crowd.
as for whether or not there is any indian heritage is a matter of research, they have been up in the ramapo mountains for over 2 centuries, so how could there not be?
Also, an indian chief (I'm not sure if Tuscarora or Lenape).
visited there in the '70s and said 'these are my people'.

The residents of Stag Hill deserve all the respect that everyone else gets. They choose to live on the mountain, and would most likely respond to genuine respect.

Be peaceful,
workinfeet