LIVE thread - Immigration Reform Markup 10am [Senate Judiciary]

C-span ^ | 3-27-06 | US Senate

[DumpsterDiver]

California is on the edge and ready to explode.

Students from Huntington Park high school are currently walking the streets waving Mexican flags.

[princess leah]

I heard J.D. Hayworth (my AZ rep and a fine man -wish he'd run for President!) on the Laura Ingrahm shoe while driving into work this morning. He is the only one I've heard that talks about enforcement FIRST, building a border fence and addressed the protest on Friday as one of "in our faces by illegals who don't care about our laws".

[Txsleuth]

I just saw a blurb on C-span that said that Justice Scalia said in a speech that the Constitution gives NO RIGHTS to detainees...

I am thinking that then he would have to say that ILLEGALS have no Constitutional rights as well, right?

[Snoopers-868th]

Now we need to control the numbers so they can be assimilated more easily.

With the number of Muslims and illegals maybe it will be Americans who will need the assimilation?

[Txsleuth]

I mentioned on a thread about the protests yesterday...that the fact that they are waving MEXICAN flags, rather than AMERICAN flags...

pretty much tells us all we need to know about their desire to assimilate, and become AMERICANS.

[DumpsterDiver]

I heard J.D. Hayworth (my AZ rep and a fine man -wish he'd run for President!) on the Laura Ingrahm shoe while driving into work this morning. He is the only one I've heard that talks about enforcement FIRST, building a border fence and addressed the protest on Friday as one of "in our faces by illegals who don't care about our laws".

He's one the few good guys out there. I may have to stop being such a tightwad and buy his new book.

[Txsleuth]

Cornyn talking about keeping the illegals in detention instead of releasing them..to come back at later date.

[dennisw]

When you see the crowds mobilized in LA, Phoenix, Denver, etc., you realize the extent and size of the numbers involved.

When you see those crowds you start to believe that the estimate of 10 million illegal aliens is a lie. A purposeful lie to lull Americans to sleep. Bear Stearns came up with 20 million illegal based on economic activity, statistics and money transfers to Mexico etc. 

My estimate is 25 million illegal aliens with 50% from Mexico

[Reagan Man]

Frankly, any new legislation should focus on securing the borders and enforcing existing employer sanctions. The guest worker program will have to wait.

If you read that section of the Cornyn-Kyl proposal called, the "Temporary Worker Program", at first glance it looks okay. Its the next part that is worrisome. The "Mandatory Departure and Reentry in Legal Status" section, allows illegals to leave the US without being punished. No fines and no jail time. IOW, illegal aliens get off scot-free. That isn't right. I believe the Bush`s proposal at least has a fine attached.

If I missed something by way of fines or other punishment, please correct me.

Also, the Cornyn-Kyl proposal has provision for the construction of border barriers, aka. walls, fences, moats, etc etc etc.

[IamConservative]

I was just thinking. If we build a wall and make being here illegally a felony, what would you do if you were here illegally? You would have to get back home before; 1) you became a felon, 2)thousands of "Americans willing to do the job" construction workers started building said wall I would think.

I would presume being arrested as a felon illegal would be punishable by deportation?

[Cboldt]

I just saw a blurb on C-span that said that Justice Scalia said in a speech that the Constitution gives NO RIGHTS to detainees...

Justice Scalia Announces Opposition to Trials in Civil Courts for Alien Military Detainees
Supreme Court: Detainees' Rights - Scalia Speaks His Mind

Scalia's position regarding military detention and absence of access to Article III courts depends on 1) the citizenship of the detainee (see Hamdi case) and 2) the circumstances surrounding taking the detainee into custody. In other words, it's not an "all detainee" principle.

I am thinking that then he would have to say that ILLEGALS have no Constitutional rights as well, right?

I never researched that. My guess is that he would NOT hold that no aspect of the Constitution applies to illegal immigrants. Fourth and fifth amendments, for example.

[DumpsterDiver]

I am thinking that then he would have to say that ILLEGALS have no Constitutional rights as well, right?

Well, I don't think so. They have (at the least) the Constitutional/legal right to due process.

It's too bad that they weren't stopped at the border in the first place. If Bush had clamped down on that border after 9/11 we could've stopped 5 years worth of illegals from getting here.

[Txsleuth]

Great...thanks for that---the blurb obviously was not enought information...

I have to leave for about an hour...check back in then.

[ex-Texan]

You mean that largely Hispanic section of Los Angeles where the median income is less than $ 45k per year and houses cost about $ 450,000?

[kabar]

I agree that your numbers are probably closer to the truth. I retired from the State Deparment in 2000. The Consular folks used to estimate 12 to 16 million illegals. I think the number is closer to 20 million now than the 10 to 11 million that the MSM uses. We have intentionally understated the numbers to minimize the problem. It used to be confined mostly to the border states, but now it has spread throughout the country. The numbers here in VA are increasing exponentially.

[kabar]

Right. Americans will become a minority in their own country.

[Cboldt]

The language can be so arcane that even people who track immigration policy might have been hard pressed to follow the conversation on ABC's "This Week" between the host, George Stephanopoulos, and the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist. In one 10-second exchange, Mr. Frist said he was for enforcement, and Mr. Stephanopoulos asked if Mr. Frist was also for guest worker, to which Mr. Frist replied that he was for guest worker but against amnesty.

Kiss Me, I'm Illegal - New York Times - PAUL VITELLO - March 26, 2006

[DumpsterDiver]

When you see the crowds mobilized in LA, Phoenix, Denver, etc., you realize the extent and size of the numbers involved.

A.N.S.W.E.R. is deeply involved in organizing this.

Over 1 Million Protest in Los Angeles for Immigrant Rights!

Photo: A.N.S.W.E.R.'s banner reads: Full Rights for Immigrants! Legalization Now!

Today in downtown Los Angeles, over 1 million people demonstrated in support of immigrant rights. This was the largest demonstration in the history of California. March organizers announced from the stage that the crowd was over 1 million. Univision and other Spanish-language television reported that up to 2 million people marched. The Los Angeles Times, reflecting police estimates, gave the march 500,000 - police estimates have been trying to minimize pro-immigrant rights demonstration for the last few weeks.

Today's demonstration was the largest of many immigrant rights demonstrations that have taken place this month. It is an uprising from the people against the reactionary Sensenbrenner Bill that passed in the House of Representatives. The bill criminalizes immigrants and those who support them.

The demonstrations began with 50,000 in Washington DC on March 7, 500,000 in Chicago on March 10 (the largest demonstration ever in Chicago history), and tens of thousands more in the last week in Milwaukee, Phoenix, Atlanta and other cities. In build up for today's demonstrations, thousands of high school students walked out of class and marched yesterday in Los Angeles. Yesterday in Georgia, tens of thousands of immigrant workers refused to show up at their jobs in a work stoppage protesting regressive legislation passed by the Georgia State Legislature. These demonstrations reflect a tremendous upsurge in the immigrant community.

The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition provided logistical support and mobilized for today's demonstration in Los Angeles. Thousands of A.N.S.W.E.R.'s yellow and black placards reading "Amnistía, Full Rights for All Immigrants" were held throughout the march. A.N.S.W.E.R. also organized a major contingent in the march.

The rally was co-chaired by

• Juan José Gutiérrez, Director of Latino Movement USA, a member of the A.N.S.W.E.R. LA Steering Committee;
• Javier Rodríguez, a noted immigrant rights activist; and
• Jesse Díaz, a UC-Riverside professor who helped initiate the march.

Speakers included

• Raúl Murillo and Gloria Saucedo of Hermandad Mexicana Nacional;
• Arturo Rodríguez, President of the United Farm Workers;
• Korean and Haitian community leaders; and
• Gloria La Riva and Preston Wood of the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition.

At the rally, Juan José Gutiérrez, Director of Latino Movement USA, said, "We are people of dignity and we demand respect. This is the beginning of a movement that is going to call for a national work stoppage."

Gloria La Riva of the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition said, "The racist politicians thought they could step on us with their racist legislation but they have awakened the immigrant giant and they will feel our strength when we stop work."

Preston Wood of A.N.S.W.E.R. LA said, "U.S. corporations are robbing Mexico of its resources and forcing people to come as immigrants for their survival. U.S. Out of Iraq! Justice for all workers!"

Critical to the turnout was the mobilization night and day for over a week of famous Latino radio announcers from every Spanish-language station, including Piolín el Cucuy. The organizers announced a national meeting on April 8 in Dallas, Texas of all the Latino immigrant rights leaders in the country to strategize for a national work stoppage in late May under the banner "A Day Without An Immigrant."

The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition believes that the struggle for immigrant rights, workers' rights and the fight against racism at home must be part and parcel of the struggle against war and imperialism. In the coming days and weeks, A.N.S.W.E.R. organizers, volunteers and activists will continue to participate in all levels of the mass movement in defense of immigrant rights and the defeat of the Sensenbrenner Bill.

To learn how you can join with other A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition organizers and volunteers, e-mail us at info@internationalanswer.org.

[dennisw]

I would presume being arrested as a felon illegal would be punishable by deportation?

You are a felon subject to deportation if you are again caught in the US after having been booted out. Guess what. It's never enforced

If you are caught entering the USA within 50 miles of the border from Mexico this is a misdemeanor.

If you are caught in the interior United States you are subject to civil penalties which are also never enforced

 

• Each year the Border Patrol is making more than a million apprehensions of people who flagrantly violate our nation's laws by unlawfully crossing U.S. borders to work and to receive publicly-funded services, often with the aid of fraudulent documents. Such entry is a misdemeanor and, if repeated, becomes punishable as a felony. Over eight million illegal immigrants live in the United States -- some estimate even more.
  

• In addition to sneaking into the country in violation of the immigration law that requires that aliens be documented for legal entry (referred to as "entry without inspection -- EWI"), others enter with legal documentation and then violate the terms on which they have been admitted by taking jobs that are not authorized or overstaying the authorized period of stay in the country. The INS estimated in 1996 that about 60 percent of the then estimated five million illegal immigrants were EWI and 40 percent were overstayers. Both types of illegal immigrants are deportable under Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1)(B) which says:
  "Any alien who is present in the United States in violation of this Act or any other law of the United States is deportable."

[DumpsterDiver]

You mean that largely Hispanic section of Los Angeles where the median income is less than $ 45k per year and houses cost about $ 450,000?

Yeah, that's the dump I'm talking about. The kiddies are still roaming the streets with their flags with some of them flashing gang signs. It looks like a cholo convention.