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Gas tax on miles, not gallons, tested in Oregon!
UPI | 3-25-2006

Posted on 03/26/2006 5:10:28 AM PST by runvus

Gas tax on miles, not gallons, tested PORTLAND, Ore., March 25 (UPI) -- Oregon is testing the idea of collecting highway funds through a tax on miles driven, rather than gasoline consumed.

Eighty percent of Oregon's highway money comes from its 24-cents-per-gallon gas tax. If the state promotes reducing gasoline consumption and consumers tend to buy the fuel-efficient vehicles, including hybrids, highway revenues would take a hit, The New York Times reported.

The test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, using a black box to calculate how many miles are clocked in-state, out of state and during rush hour.

The experiment is designed to increase state revenue for road maintenance without raising gasoline taxes, but critics say collecting GPS records poses new privacy issues.

"The existence of such a database, which would, for the first time in history, allow for the creation of detailed daily itineraries of every driver, raises obvious privacy concerns," said David L. Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil liberties group in Washington.


TOPICS: Government; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; gastax; mileagetax; yaxes
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And the Libs in Oregon are worried about President Bush listening in on Terrorist's cell phone calls!!!!???? :-/
1 posted on 03/26/2006 5:10:29 AM PST by runvus
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To: runvus

All that encouragement to buy fuel-efficient vehicles leads to this! I guess it is a variant of the Law of Unintended Consequences.


2 posted on 03/26/2006 5:12:43 AM PST by Pusterfuss (Proud member: Minnesotans for Global Warming)
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To: runvus

With the added benefit the state gets to track you everywhere you go.


3 posted on 03/26/2006 5:13:39 AM PST by DManA
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To: Pusterfuss
All that encouragement to buy fuel-efficient vehicles leads to this! I guess it is a variant of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Good point!

4 posted on 03/26/2006 5:14:49 AM PST by Shalom Israel (Actually, it's all done with mirrors.)
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To: runvus
The test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, using a black box to calculate how many miles are clocked in-state, out of state and during rush hour.

How long before someone figured how to take this off the car & leave it in the garage...while they drove around town?

5 posted on 03/26/2006 5:16:37 AM PST by Troublemaker
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To: runvus

Portland has a nice little racket going. They severely restrict land use by prohibiting the building of intown high-density housing, forcing new residents to live farther and farther from the city, then penalize those same residents for living so far away. Nice job, leftists.


6 posted on 03/26/2006 5:16:52 AM PST by Hoodat ( Silly Dems, AYBABTU.)
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To: runvus
The experiment is designed to increase state revenue for road maintenance without raising gasoline taxes, but critics say collecting GPS records poses new privacy issues.

The privacy issue put aside for the moment, this is a simple and pure tax increase.

Once the state starts tracking who drives what miles, heavy use vehicles like truckers will be taxed at a higher rate, which will drive up costs to transport goods and services.

A hidden tax that will be passed onto consumers

7 posted on 03/26/2006 5:17:34 AM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: Pusterfuss

It's a a lot like taxing cigarettes a lot to get people to quit smoking. Sometimes they get what they ask for and screw themselves out of revenue and need to find new ways to make it up.


8 posted on 03/26/2006 5:18:50 AM PST by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: runvus

I take it that the Hummer and the Honda Prius will be paying the same tax for miles driven even though one pollutes 8 times more than the other? Silly Dems.


9 posted on 03/26/2006 5:19:08 AM PST by Hoodat ( Silly Dems, AYBABTU.)
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To: runvus

Enforcement raises so many questions. They would have to get into issues of blocking the GPS rcvr in order to conceal how many miles are driven. That leads to questions on parking the car in a garage or under a carport, trees etc.

Next comes inspections of one's home by ODOT, to prove that one has a garage. ODOT would then have to look at driving patterns and history for evidence of fraud.

I can see the enforcement of this tax procedure getting to be very expensive and entrusive. Far better to keep the simple consumption tax.


10 posted on 03/26/2006 5:22:03 AM PST by jimtorr
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To: Troublemaker
How long before someone figured how to take this off the car & leave it in the garage...while they drove around town?

"Sir, we pulled you over because we scanned your vehicle at the checkpoint and did not receive an GPS signal. Here's your $265 ticket, you have 30 days to bring your vehicle into compliance or we will issue a bench warrant"

"Have a nice day and drive safe."

11 posted on 03/26/2006 5:22:25 AM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: Troublemaker

Or build a shielded enclosure to place around the box, say to about 100db. It will transmit to nowhere. Take it off once a month just to be inventoried on your trip to the grocery store.


12 posted on 03/26/2006 5:25:00 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: Troublemaker; Travis McGee
How long before someone figured how to take this off the car & leave it in the garage...while they drove around town?

Are you kidding? Random roadside checks, felony charges for "driving without GPS device" and confiscation of vehicle, loss of voting rights and right to own firearms . . . and that's just for starters.

What did Ayn Rand say? You can't control free men. You have to make criminals of them.

13 posted on 03/26/2006 5:25:42 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: runvus
" If the state promotes reducing gasoline consumption and consumers tend to buy the fuel-efficient vehicles, including hybrids, highway revenues would take a hit.

And, if there is a reduction in the price of household goods (such as appliances), sales tax revenues will fall. So Oregon will probably begin tracking, and taxing, based on how many loads of wash you run or how many times you use the blender or coffee pot.

14 posted on 03/26/2006 5:26:03 AM PST by LZ_Bayonet
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To: jimtorr

The first law to be passed will be one excluding all elected representatives, police officers, state employees, and legislative staffers from being required to be fitted with a box.


15 posted on 03/26/2006 5:27:18 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: blackdog; Troublemaker

Maybe a jamming device? Ya gotta be able to hide it on those roadside checks though - you know, for the children.


16 posted on 03/26/2006 5:28:11 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: runvus
The test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, using a black box to calculate how many miles are clocked in-state, out of state and during rush hour.

Officials can then use real-time GPS to watch drivers fleeing the state for good.

17 posted on 03/26/2006 5:28:39 AM PST by 6SJ7
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To: Larry Lucido
You can't control free men. You have to make criminals of them.

Excellent tag line material.

18 posted on 03/26/2006 5:30:49 AM PST by Popman ("What I was doing wasn't living, it was dying. I really think God had better plans for me.")
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To: runvus

I bet after they put it on they send you an installation fee, and charge you for the box.


19 posted on 03/26/2006 5:31:15 AM PST by boomop1 (there you go again)
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To: runvus

This is BS to the max. But then, no one ever accused libs of being smart.

Their claim is that miles driven causes wear and tear on the roads, but that the smaller cars are driven more miles per gallon and therefore are tearing up the roads more without paying higher taxes at the pump. Well this is purely stupid-lib-think.

Smaller vehicles cause far less damage per mile that a heavy truck. In fact, if a road is well designed and well installed, even a medium sized car will do virutally no damage to the road. Poor road design, poor materials, poor installation, extreme weather, salt, plows, and heavy trucks with poor suspension do FAR, FAR more damage to roads than most passenger vehicles.

Look at well designed and built airport runways and tarmacs. They don't crumble under the weight of an 910,000 lb fueled 747. When was the last time you saw potholes being filled on a commercial runway?

If they want to tax miles driven on the poor suckers of Oregon, then just include a declaration of miles driven on their annual state income tax. They will still be idiots, though.


20 posted on 03/26/2006 5:32:29 AM PST by HighWheeler (The liberal dinosaurs bellow defiantly while sinking deeper into the swamp.......)
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To: runvus

Take note. This will happen everywhere that liberals get into power.


21 posted on 03/26/2006 5:32:47 AM PST by BooksForTheRight.com (what have you done today to fight terrorism/leftism (same thing!))
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To: 6SJ7

Not to mention that it eliminates the price signals that motivate people to invest in gas-saving cars to start with.


22 posted on 03/26/2006 5:33:16 AM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: runvus
The voters in Oregon are such idiots. No one else in their state elected such jerks.

If the voters are not responsible, then why vote?

23 posted on 03/26/2006 5:35:02 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Larry Lucido

Spark Gap generator. Shot Noise. Good for about a 10' radius when powered with modest current. We used to make them in high school and get all excited when we pulled up next to a car at a traffic light and their radio would go all static. Very useful when trying to stomp out mom and dad's joy of listening to Debbie Reynolds and Roy Orbison on the oldies station when we worshiped "Freebird". Oddly enough, I love Roy Orbison and Debbie Reynolds today and I'd put my foot up my kid's a$$ for medling with my airwaves.


24 posted on 03/26/2006 5:40:07 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: Pusterfuss

>>test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, <<

Libs love to talk about civil rights, but only the civil rights that are in fashion. Privacy is a basic civil right, as is the right to travel. Any time an activity is taxed, government must be allowed to collect records and audit those records and activities to assure itself of compliance.

Just as the income tax destroyed financial privacy, the milage tax will destroy the privacy of travel.

This monster must be slain before the State can give birth to it.


25 posted on 03/26/2006 5:40:16 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: HighWheeler
I've pulled a few jumbo's out of the sunken asphalt. Most airports have very specific areas which can support heavies. Over time, it's forgotten and after an hour parked, the plane is a few feet lower and stuck real bad.

It's mostly the braking forces on large heavies that damage the pavement on highways. Large bulk milk tankers here on rural Wisconsin roads can just chissel the pavement right off of they apply hard braking during certain conditions like spring and fall. It's a well accepted fact that those bulk milk tankers cannot and will not stop for you, your pooch, deer, kitties, or skunks.

26 posted on 03/26/2006 5:49:33 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: HighWheeler
If they want to tax miles driven on the poor suckers of Oregon, then just include a declaration of miles driven on their annual state income tax. They will still be idiots, though.

Here in NC, you have to get an annual inspection and get all hooked up to a DMV machine that reports directly to their database. They'll bust you if the property taxes aren't paid on the vehicle and for a myriad of other infractions (you must make criminals of them!) If Oregon has a similar procedure, why not just report the "official" taxable mileage then?

Better yet, why not just leave us the hell alone?

27 posted on 03/26/2006 5:53:38 AM PST by ProfoundMan (At what point does this crap become sedition?)
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To: runvus
Stupid question, I know, but why don't they just raise the gas tax?

This will cost millions (if not more) to implement. Compliance will have to be enforced, lawsuits will have to be defended. Older cars will have to be retrofitted with the devices --and you can bet that folks who can barely afford to put tires on their "hoopty" are going to scream pretty loud at the cost of installing a GPS tracking device.

What a harebrained scheme. It won't go anywhere. Then again. . .

28 posted on 03/26/2006 5:56:39 AM PST by Drew68
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To: blackdog

I agree. Mileage exemptions will be handed out for political purposes. The govt will have another means to socially engineer the public. Ultimately, the middle class would get squeezed.


29 posted on 03/26/2006 5:57:45 AM PST by kdot
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To: HighWheeler
BTW, I gear up landed at McGuire Airforce Base in the 80's in a light twin engine Seneca. The props damaged about 100' of runway asphalt on top of a rebar concrete base. The 4" deep scrapes on the asphalt cost me a hair short of $20,000 to repair.

I do not think the public could fund roads built to runway specs. Although I do think we have way too many roads in this country. Maybe if we built far less of them we could do a much better job on the quality/longevity?

30 posted on 03/26/2006 5:58:04 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: runvus
The test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, using a black box to calculate how many miles are clocked in-state, out of state and during rush hour.

A black box in every car, and a massively expensive computer system to track and consolidate the data. How much would that cost?
31 posted on 03/26/2006 5:59:41 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: runvus

Libs judge others by their actions and they judge themselves by thier intentions..............

Do as I say, not as I do!


32 posted on 03/26/2006 6:01:47 AM PST by runvus (RUNVUS)
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To: HighWheeler

After that incident, I realized it is easier and does less damage to the plane to land gear-up in the nice soft grass right next to the runway. Some dirt and seed is a lot cheaper. Very little need to reskin the belly either. The prop strikes on dirt will do minimal damage to the engines as well. They hit hard surface and both engines are trashed.


33 posted on 03/26/2006 6:02:24 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: Drew68
"Stupid question, I know, but why don't they just raise the gas tax?"

Because the next step of socialism requires implementing identification and tracking features on the masses of asses. We will only start with tracking their vehicles, then we will move to tracking.....

34 posted on 03/26/2006 6:02:38 AM PST by HighWheeler (The liberal dinosaurs bellow defiantly while sinking deeper into the swamp.......)
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To: jimtorr
They would have to get into issues of blocking the GPS rcvr in order to conceal how many miles are driven

How long before people are installing Faraday cages around the box?
35 posted on 03/26/2006 6:02:53 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: R. Scott

Can you imagine a terrorist strike on a GPS database used for such tax collection purposes? Politicians in Oregon would be demanding we nuke the entire middle East if it cramped their luxury standard of living on tax revenues.


36 posted on 03/26/2006 6:04:54 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: runvus
I think of it as a tax break for gas guzzling. A Republican would never have dared to suggest it.
37 posted on 03/26/2006 6:05:25 AM PST by Physicist
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To: blackdog

Next time just put the gear down. ;o)


38 posted on 03/26/2006 6:05:36 AM PST by HighWheeler (The liberal dinosaurs bellow defiantly while sinking deeper into the swamp.......)
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To: R. Scott

See post #12.


39 posted on 03/26/2006 6:05:49 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: blackdog

Yep! Even a lib politician would turn into a raging hawk.


40 posted on 03/26/2006 6:06:42 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Troublemaker
"How long before someone figured how to take this off the car & leave it in the garage...while they drove around town?"

Just put a swich in the power lead.

There was an advert in Wall St Journal a month ago for people in several cities (San Diego, Triangle Park Area....and some others I cant recall) to partipate in an on going focus group relating to charge by mile.

Was funded by an East coast University.

41 posted on 03/26/2006 6:06:53 AM PST by spokeshave (I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than drive over a bridge with Ted Kennedy)
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To: HighWheeler

Well good morning Mr.Obvious! :)


42 posted on 03/26/2006 6:07:09 AM PST by blackdog (Forever re-timing flap tuckers. Hell is maintaining what stupid engineers sold to even dumber execs)
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To: runvus
Oregon may wake up soon and realize people hate the elitists imposition of a socialist dictatorship on the state. There are signs everywhere that the real estate bubble is leaking rapidly. There are three major apartment developments near Raleigh Hills where all building was halted about two months ago. Also, a brand new 'condo' development stands completely vacant. Even after the owners posted 'for rent' signs in front of the structure. Completely unoccupied. Looks abandoned to me. Wonder what casualty insurers think about that situation? Abandoned buildings are a huge risk. There will be a huge exodus to greener pastures. Exit Ore-gun, stage right. Get on yer ponies and ride!
43 posted on 03/26/2006 6:07:25 AM PST by ex-Texan (Matthew 7:1 through 6)
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To: runvus
And the Libs in Oregon are worried about President Bush listening in on Terrorist's cell phone calls!!!!???? :-/

The liberals are sacrificing privacy for the environment.

President Bush is sacrificing privacy for some made-up terrorist threat.

Once again, liberals demonstrate their priorities.

44 posted on 03/26/2006 6:07:45 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Many women will support Hillary based solely on her gender -- and it will be praised by the MSM.)
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To: runvus

"Gas tax on miles, not gallons, tested PORTLAND"

What a brilliant idea! These guys are so creative. High five one another for a job well done.

It pains me to think I will probably never reach this level of intelligence.


45 posted on 03/26/2006 6:07:45 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: runvus
The experiment is designed to increase state revenue for road maintenance without raising gasoline taxes, but critics say collecting GPS records poses new privacy issues.

"The existence of such a database, which would, for the first time in history, allow for the creation of detailed daily itineraries of every driver, raises obvious privacy concerns," said David L. Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil liberties group in Washington.

The next thing you know they'll be asking for your papers when the Gestapo welcomes you to Oregon.

46 posted on 03/26/2006 6:09:51 AM PST by guestfox01
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To: blackdog

Thanks, Mr. Sarcastic! Have a good day.


47 posted on 03/26/2006 6:09:57 AM PST by HighWheeler (The liberal dinosaurs bellow defiantly while sinking deeper into the swamp.......)
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To: blackdog

Yep. I only drive to church on Sunday and stop at the grocery on the way home.


48 posted on 03/26/2006 6:11:35 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: runvus
Total collapse of state economy, tested in Oregon!
49 posted on 03/26/2006 6:12:01 AM PST by xrp (Fox News Channel: MISSING WHITE GIRL NETWORK)
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To: ex-Texan

"Oregon may wake up soon and realize people hate the elitists imposition of a socialist dictatorship on the state."


That won't happen. They are dealing with a state full of stupid libs. "You can't fix stupid".


50 posted on 03/26/2006 6:12:19 AM PST by HighWheeler (The liberal dinosaurs bellow defiantly while sinking deeper into the swamp.......)
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