Posted on 03/23/2006 5:07:45 AM PST by gunnyg
It all depends on the situation. If you are ex-Navy or Marine and covered, then salute. But if you're un-covered in civilian dress, then hand on the heart. If you're ex-Army or ex-Air Force, the either is acceptable. I don't know about Coast Guard rules..........
Thank you for your service to our country.
Retired military ARE civilians, though. Thinking that Uncle Sam is going to call you old guys back is like wearing a jersey to a sporting event, mere wishful thinking.
After I got back to the States, my future Father-in-Law kept on making mouth-noise about how the Marines could recall him to go to Iraq. He retired in the mid-80's, but I think he still fantasizes about it...
Amen!
Well, I think you're wrong, Sir. There have been cases of retired military personnel being court martialed for passing bad checks at military clubs.
Gunny, I haven't fit into my dress blues in 30 years, but when it's time to stand and face the flag, I'm locking these old bones up, sucking in my gut till I turn blue while snapping into a lock my best salute, until someone yells "TO" or the music stops, or I just pass out.
And anybody that tells me I can't salute gets a thumb in their eye.
It's that simple.
Semper Fi
PS: I do make sure I have on a cover. (Lately my USMC ballcap). It gives me a target for my finger tips. :-)
When I was in the Navy we didn't salute indoors or out if uncovered or out of uniform.
I took a reaming in Saigon for not saluting an Army colonel when inside and not wearing a cover. I explained the Navy tradition to him but he needed confirmation from a passing Navy commander.
The commander simply said that gentlemen don't wear a cover inside, therefore, they don't salute inside.
Yep!
I followed the same tradition in the Air Force. I thought it was universal in our military.
7.37. Saluting When the National Anthem or To the Colors is Played:
7.37.1. The US flag is symbolic of the United States and the principles for which it stands. The national anthem is a declaration of reverence and loyalty to the United States with the flag as an emblem.
7.37.2. On certain occasions, such as during inclement weather or when a band is not present for a retreat ceremony, To the Colors is played instead of the national anthem. To the Colors is a bugle call sounded as a salute to the flag and it symbolizes respect to the nation and the flag the same as the national anthem does. The proper courtesies in paragraphs 7.37.2.1 through 7.37.2.5 must be rendered.
7.37.2.1. When in uniform in formation, but not a part of a ceremony, the unit commander commands present arms when the national anthem or To the Colors is played. The unit should be faced toward the flag before being given present arms.
7.37.2.2. When in uniform, but not in formation:
7.37.2.2.1. Outdoors, at any ceremony where the US flag is present, come to attention, face the flag in the ceremony, and salute. At sporting events, if the flag is visible, face the flag and salute. If the flag is not visible, face the band and salute in its direction. If the music is recorded, face the front and salute. At all other outdoor occasions, follow the same general principle, come to attention, salute, and face the flag, if visible, or the music.
7.37.2.2.2. Indoors, when the national anthem or To the Colors is played, face the flag (if present) and assume the position of attention. If no flag is present, assume the position of attention facing the music. Do not salute unless under arms.
7.37.2.3. When in civilian clothing outdoors, take the same action as when in uniform, but use the following manner of saluting. Men remove the headdress with the right hand and hold it at the left shoulder with the right hand over the heart. Men without hats and women salute by standing at attention and placing the right hand over the heart.
7.37.2.4. When in civilian clothing indoors, render the civilian salute by standing at attention and placing the right hand over the heart.
7.37.2.5. In vehicles during an Air Force flag ceremony, the driver brings the moving vehicle to a stop at the first note of the national anthem or To the Colors. Personnel in vehicles, including the driver, remain seated at attention.
7.37.3. Air Force photographers and camera operators render appropriate honors outlined in paragraph 7.37.2.2 except when they are specifically assigned to photograph others rendering honors.
7.37.4. Flags and national anthems of friendly foreign countries are shown the same marks of respect.
7.38. Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag:
7.38.1. In military formations and ceremonies, the Pledge of Allegiance is not recited.
7.38.2. At protocol functions and social and sporting events that include civilian participants, military personnel should:
7.38.2.1. When in uniform outdoors, stand at attention, remain silent, face the flag, and render the hand salute.
7.38.2.2. When in uniform indoors, stand at attention, remain silent, and face the flag. Do not render the hand salute. Where the participants are primarily civilians or in civilian attire, reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is optional for those in uniform.
7.38.2.3. When in civilian attire, recite the Pledge of Allegiance standing at attention, facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men should remove their headdress with the right hand and hold it over their left shoulder, hand over the heart.
So I personally don't think that retirees or veterans should display customs that aren't applicable for active duty in civilian clothes. Just IMHO and YMMV.
A hand salute should be reserved for uniformed military personnel. I'm not passionate enough about that to think we need rules to govern it though. If you want to render a hand salute to the National Ensign, so be it.
A veteran is not necessarily retired, either.
Or us navy vets could always be covered while outside...I usually am, especially at a function where the salute would be required.
An uncovered Navy man would never pop a salute.
I'm not sure why I still do that. It's been about 40 years after all. But it's still right there when a flag passes, it's just kind of an automatic thing.
There are no regulations telling us veterans what we can and can't do in this matter.
If in uniform salute.
If in civilian clothes the hand (or hat if worn) should be placed over the heart.
This applies to veterans as well as Active, Reserve and National Guard personnel.
You are correct. In the Navy at least, retirees are passed to the Fleet Reserve.
I thought the Air Force custom was "run for an entrance"...
Coastie rules require one to go back to the rack for two hours, catch some zees, and after waking up, sitting down to a big breakfast of scrambled eggs and cheese, coffee, and doughnuts. Belly scratching is optional (belching required).
A Navy man would never be uncovered on a parade ground. We're talking about ex-servicemen here. I don't wear a hat most of the time, but I still snap to when the flag passes.
And yeah, I know that's not the accepted protocol for sailors.
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