Bias in Teacher-Student Sex Case

Orlando Sentinal ^ | 03/11/2006 | Rene Stutzman

[okiecon]

Dang Van Dinh, a male chemistry teacher at Orlando's Boone High School, was ordered to prison for five years for having sex with a 15-year-old girl.

But Debra Lafave, a female teacher who had sex with a 14-year-old student in suburban Tampa, was merely placed on house arrest for her crime.

[okiecon]

This stuff bothers me, when are we going to stop being chivalrous to trash like LaFave?

[Battle Hymn of the Republic]

and much of that bias is here on FR...

[mlc9852]

Yes it does. Witness the recent thread on daddy child support!

[jazusamo]

Criminal behavior is criminal behavior regardless of the sex of the perpetrator and should be punished equally. These type women are sexual predators.

[FOG724]

Haven't you heard? Men are the disposable sex.

[JoSixChip]

There is a difference, for the boy it is a badge of honor. For the girl it is a "slut" label for life. Maybe not fair, but it is a fact.

[theDentist]

Yes, but (if this is the case I am thinking of) the Judge said she was much too pretty to serve time in jail. Obviously, Dang Van Dinh is not a GQ model quality man, and therefore can be served up to the prisoners like, wel, fresh fish.

[TexasCajun]

Witness the recent thread on daddy child support!

Equal protection clause argument:
"If a woman can "Opt Out" and not accept responsibility for a newborn, then why can't a man "Opt Out" of the responsibility as well?

-good argument-

[derllak]

According to some FReepers the damage a female teacher does to a male student isn't quite as bad as a male teacher to a female. To them, the male student is such a lucky kid to have scored with a female teacher. That's really something to brag about! This lopsided argument bothers me too. To me it makes no difference and the punishment should be the same.

[mlc9852]

Why you ask? Because men don't get pregnant would be my guess.

[jazusamo]

Agreed. And I would like to know how these people have come to that conclusion. A 13 or 14 year old might say they're the luckiest kid in school at that time, but what about 2, 5, or 10 years down the road. It doesn't wash.

[Clemenza]

When a man sleeps with a teenage girl he is a criminal. When a woman does it with a boy, she's doing him a favor.

[Publius6961]

Yes it does. Witness the recent thread on daddy child support!

Got a link?

[L98Fiero]

"There is a difference, for the boy it is a badge of honor. For the girl it is a "slut" label for life. Maybe not fair, but it is a fact."

What law is that? You got a US Criminal Code number for that one? I didn't think so.

Since an adolescent child deems it a "badge of honor" it's OK? Or do you deem it a badge of honor?

[Publius6961]

There is a difference, for the boy it is a badge of honor. For the girl it is a "slut" label for life. Maybe not fair, but it is a fact.

Lame. Very lame.
That sounds like something the Original Taliban or our Christian version would say...

[Publius6961]

Why you ask? Because men don't get pregnant would be my guess.

As far as I can recall, not a single case has ever mentioned pregnancy before the man is jailed for life.

[Doc91678]

I oppose what you just wrote. Pedophilia has nothing to to about child support. Whether it is a man or a woman committing pedophilia the charges and length of time incarcerated should be the same if convicted.
This myth about,its not bad for the boy and horrible for a girl is wrong. It affects both and it stays with them for the rest of their lives.

[ElTianti]

A vagina is a get-out-of-jail-free card.

[TexasCajun]

Because men don't get pregnant would be my guess

What's that got to do with supporting an unwanted child?

One gender gets to "Opt Out" and the other gender has no "choice"?

It's not my position, I just like the argument.

[Fielding]

IMHO men are much more vulnerable to young girls, than young girls to older men.

[monday]

"A 13 or 14 year old might say they're the luckiest kid in school at that time, but what about 2, 5, or 10 years down the road. It doesn't wash."

lol.... You think they are going to be traumatized later? Just so everyone understands. Consensual sex is not traumatic for post pubescent teenagers be they male or female. The reason it is prohibited and criminalized, and rightly so, is because it can lead to complications like pregnancy that teenagers are not judged competent to decide for themselves.

Only if the sex was non consensual, are teenagers, like anyone else, likely to be traumatized. If for instance either of these teachers used their position to pressure the teens into having sex, the penalty is generally, and should be, greater.

I don't know the details of these cases, however, it is likely that the girl felt more pressure to have sex than the boy did. Having been a teenage boy once myself I know first hand how horny they are. It wouldn't surprise me if the teenage boy was the one pressuring the teacher to have sex.

[ohioman]

What you said does not mitigate the illegality of what these women have done. Are you one of those commie windbags who teach Women's studies?

[mlc9852]

I don't know. When I was in high school I had quite a crush on a coach, as did many other girls. To the best of my knowledge, he knew it but never, ever tried to take advantage of any of them. But that was many years ago. Things have certainly changed.

[jjw]

It's the judge in Florida. Unfortunately, I am personally familiar with one of his rulings. In his eyes a woman could do no wrong. I have no doubt that he was thinking, 'well I had two daughters and they had boyfriends and they've turned out just fine.'

[JoSixChip]

"What law is that? You got a US Criminal Code number for that one? I didn't think so. "



No law, just an observation. Do you not agree that (right or wrong) this is the general attitude of the majority?

[monday]

"Pedophilia has nothing to to about child support. Whether it is a man or a woman committing pedophilia the charges and length of time incarcerated should be the same if convicted.
This myth about,its not bad for the boy and horrible for a girl is wrong. It affects both and it stays with them for the rest of their lives."

I agree, however pedophilia is sex with prepubescent children. This thread is about post pubescent teenagers which are different. Post pubescent teenage boys are not harmed by consensual sex.

[jdm]

"Bias in Teacher-Student Sex Case"

The only bias here is that none of my teachers were ever this cute.

I mean, c'mon, it's like having Jenny McCarthy circa 1993 as your teacher. I should have been so fortunate. I am seriesly jealous, in fact.

[hurly]

Finally some common sense. A boy in my high school class "made it" with a hot teacher and it is still a bragging right and the rest of us still envy him over 40 years later.

As long as it was consensual I seriously doubt any "trauma" will occur in that young mans life unless it is a result of all the people saying " you should be traumatized!"

[monday]

"IMHO men are much more vulnerable to young girls, than young girls to older men."

lol... what an odd thing to say. Has an older man EVER been traumatized by sex with a young girl? I didn't think it was possible?

[Bluegrass Conservative]

I think it all stems back to the fact that most guys know how that 14 year old boy was thinking. He was not "abused".

[jazusamo]

[You think they are going to be traumatized later?]

It's not just being traumatized later. If a kid that age chalks up a "score" with an authority figure, what do you think that tells him? Next time he wants something from someone, does it just make him feel he is more entitled to it. How do people become criminals? Could this type situation help lead to criminal behavior in the future?

There are many consequences of events like this. I don't pretend to know all of them, but what she did was a crime and the boy was a victim.

[HitmanLV]

The bias has to do with the idea that for whatever reason, our culture is more interested in protecting the sexuality of females than it is in protecting the sexuality of males.

There is a perception that an adult male who entices a teenage girl into sex has taken advantage of the power imbalance and violated her, while there is also a perception that an adult female who entices a teenage boy into sex has just made the teen boy's fantasy into a reality.

This isn't a double standard, as some folks insist. A true double standard is two different standards for the same thing. Since males and females are different, this is more accurately two different standards for two different things.

A teen girl who has been so violated by an adult male would most likely get sympathy from most people, while a teen boy who has been so violated by an adult female gets a reaction much closer to "get that smirk off your face, kid!'

Instinctively, I think most adult males and adult females initially react this way, though some come to different conclusions upon thinking about it.

[monday]

"How do people become criminals? Could this type situation help lead to criminal behavior in the future?"

I don't know. I don't see how. Are you suggesting that having sex makes people criminals?

"There are many consequences of events like this. I don't pretend to know all of them, but what she did was a crime and the boy was a victim."

I agree that what she did was technically a "crime", and she should be punished, but no matter how many times you repeat it, saying "he was a victim" doesn't make it true.

We have many laws in this country that make certain activities a crime even though there is no "victim".

[JABBERBONK]

AND NOW PROSCUTERS IN MARION COUNTY MAY SIMPLY DROP ALL CHARGES SO THE victim WON'T HAVE TO TESTIFY!!!!!!

[jazusamo]

[I agree that what she did was technically a "crime", and she should be punished, but no matter how many times you repeat it, saying "he was a victim" doesn't make it true.]

Okay, at what age does this "technical crime" cease to be a crime? At what age does the boy become a victim? The law in most states defines a minor as being under 16 to 18 years of age. The good ole boy syndrome is a major part of the thinking of many regarding the punishment of women in these crimes.

One thing that rarely comes up about the difference of male and female victims is that most female minors involved in these situations with teachers are also consensual victims. Does that it make any less of a crime or them any less a victim?

[Cyclone59]

With all these sex starved female teachers needing sex that bad, wouldn't you think that they could find a sex starved male teacher who would do them the favor. No strings attached and more importantly LEGAL! I may be reached at ......

[jazusamo]

LOL...No doubt about it. It's difficult to understand her motive for going after a 14 year old. She's got to be a few bricks short of a load.

[Old_Mil]

I don't know about the rest of you men, but someone like Ms. Lafave had shown an interest in me when I was 16, I would have known enough to use protection, take advantage of the situation while it lasted, and shut the hell up.

[Graybeard58]

While I agree with what you said in your post #17, there are exceptions and a lot has to do with the relative ages of the male and female involved.

My wife's 17 year old nephew had an "affair" with one of his teachers who was 22 at the time. When he graduated from high school he turned 18 and they got married. She provided the primary support while he attended 4 years of college. They have now been married for 12 years and have two children,

The above case is most likely the exception to the rule, I admit and does not make it ok but it has worked for them so far.

[Cyclone59]

Most teen-agers don't know the importance of "shut the hell up". He was out bragging about it and one of his buddies ratted on him.

[najida]

No...

The rule is boys NEED sex, they have to have it,
they LOVE it...Why, they would die without it.

Girls on the other hand are supposed not to like sex at all, have no interest, desires or wants (Even though they mature much more quickly physically and emotionally)...then they are supposed to be totally asexual until their wedding night at which time they are supposed to act like porn stars.

However, once married, they can then act just like all those hot teachers that their hubbies used to fool around with...cept now they can do it with the boys that their hubbies no longer are;)

'tis a confusing world to live in.

[najida]

You must be new to FR. ;)

[monday]

" The law in most states defines a minor as being under 16 to 18 years of age."


True but the law treats prepubescent and postpubecent minors differently. It is much more serious to have sex with a prepubescent child than a postpubecent teenager. That goes for either male or female. The law doesn't discriminate between the two, and it shouldn't for prepubescent children.

The difference comes when prosecuting cases where postpubecent minors are involved. Judges sentence people according to the seriousness of the crime and if they refuse to give long sentences to adult females who have sex with postpubecent male minors, it is because they recognize that the postpubecent male was not victimized.

If they give a long sentence to a male who had sex with a postpubecent female minor, it is because they believe that the female was victimized, to one degree or another.

Neither is likely to get as long a sentence as a true pedophile who had sex with a prepubescent child would.

"One thing that rarely comes up about the difference of male and female victims is that most female minors involved in these situations with teachers are also consensual victims. Does that it make any less of a crime or them any less a victim?"

It is still a crime, but if the relationship was truly consensual then no, the female wasn't a victim either. In cases where this is a factor, the sentences are usually less also. It is not unheard of for men who aren't too much older than the minor teenager to get probation only. That is even more lenient than the female teacher who was placed under house arrest.

[little jeremiah]

A Two-fer.

[Fintan]

This stuff bothers me, when are we going to stop being chivalrous to trash like LaFave?

 

Actually, I want to know when teachers are going to stop treating their classrooms like personal harems.

[jazusamo]

Everything you've said is probably true but the fact remains that our kids go to school and we entrust them to their teachers. When those teachers engage in behavior that breaks that trust and they knowingly ignore the law, they should be sentenced according to that law.

If probation is appropriate for women teachers in lieu of prison sentences, our laws should be changed to reflect that. Until the laws are changed, both male and female teachers should be punished equally, IMO.

I appreciate that our discussion has taken place in a civil manner even though we don't agree. Many posts I have seen evolve into something less.

[george wythe]

If a male teacher has sex with a student, he should be crucified.

If a female teacher has sex with a student, she just made the student lucky.

See this thread if you have any doubts:

Judge: No Deal For Teacher Who Slept With Her Student

[vetvetdoug]

If I had been 14 and been offered Ms. Lafave I would have done it then. If I would have been 16 and offered Ms. Lafave I would have done it then. If Ms. Lafave offered herself to me now I would do it. The main thing is to keep your friggin' mouth shut about it.

[okiecon]

Not always. Have you been in a high school recently? Being a slut is not necessarily shameful, sadly.

[okiecon]

Or what if she got pregnant? I can only imagine being liable for child support and having a child that you have to fight for custody of (and quite possibly not win) at the age of 15.