Please take this club and beat me or how OPEC cut supply by 2 million barrels and we shrugged

me | 2/20/2006 | RW

[reluctantwarrior]

We paid for the flight training we paid for the semtex used in the IEDs in Iraq we paid for the camps we paid for the travel expenses and overhead of Aq cells in 60 countries we paid for the last five years of armed conflict between Islamofacists and the west we paid for the election of Hamas we paid for the Madrid bombers we paid for the knife used to saw Nick Bergs head off

What will it take for us to wake up and decide to stop using Saudi oil

Let these sand covered a@@ pirates drink the stuff

[WardMClark]

Too bad your Momma didn't pay for Hooked On Phonics.

[American Quilter]

What will it take for us to wake up and decide to stop using Saudi oil

I'm ready. What alternative fuel do you recommend, and where can I buy it?

[Clint N. Suhks]

IBTZ

[cripplecreek]

I'm all for letting them starve themselves back to pre 1800s population levels.

[jdsteel]

IBTZ?

[reluctantwarrior]

Wow such cutting sarcasm from an unemployed english teacher

[Wiseghy]

You may want to check out Sunday's Dilbert.


That said, I agree that foreign oil poses a strategic problem that could be easily addressed if we got serious about developing domestic sources.

[reluctantwarrior]

Bio diesel and domestic oil

[MeanWestTexan]

Yeah, long time registeree before going crazy. (2003)

[reluctantwarrior]

The dilbert cartoon is spot on, fungibility is an issue if we only play a shell game. But if we stop imports of oil from Saudi, Iran, Venezuela, then even an artificially constrained supply will feel the glut on the market.

[reluctantwarrior]

I am crazy, I spent six months in Africa in 2002, lost three operators chasing Aq. Spent eight months in Afghanistan lost six operators chasing Taliban. I am a fool to think that an idea would be vetted rather than the all too frequent IBTZ from the echo chamber of "there's nothing we can do crowd" spewing all over it.

[joe fonebone]

"What will it take for us to wake up and decide to stop using Saudi oil "
I say we us up all of their's first, then screw 'em

[reluctantwarrior]

They have artificially constrained supply through OPEC and have stated their price target is 50 or higher for the forseeable future. When the market last worked in the market the price dropped to 12 dollars a barrel.

[cripplecreek]

All I know is that America is starting to look a lot like a crack ho when it comes to imported oil.

[Ligeia]

I agree with you completely. We're funding our own demise until we become energy independent.

[Redbob]

I don't mind so much the poor spelling and grammar as the utter lack of any knowledge of economics.

Oil is what you call a "fungible" commodity; in essence, this means that once it's in you gas tank, it matters not one whit where it came from.

Put another way: if we were to completely stop buying arab oil, our gas prices would go up, but the arabs wouldn't suffer a bit: they would merely sell their oil to Europe, South America, Africa, etc.
Which, BTW, is where most of their oil goes now anyway.

So for no more gain than a bit of cheap symbolism, we'd be penalizing nobody but ourselves. This is the kind of thing the Dimocrats love to do, but we try to avoid.

[sarasota]

I agree. When will the wake-up call come in? When we're all freezing/roasting because we've run out of oil supplies?

[Toby06]

Zotworthy over the lack of a few commas? C'mon.

[reluctantwarrior]

Frank Gaffney wrote an excellent book on the ten steps to win this conflict. The seminal one to this thread is to stop impoting oil, period. We decided to land on the moon and ten years later we did it. If we would pester our professional criminal class they would do it.

[Mad Dawgg]

OK what have YOU done to reduce Oil Dependence?

[Ligeia]

I trust Frank Gaffney. If he says it, I believe it.

[reluctantwarrior]

Fungibility demands inelastic demand if we stop using imported oil the rest of the demand would not use the resulting oversupply. Fungible yes, unaffected by demand supply pressure, no.

[reluctantwarrior]

I use biodiesel, ride my bike, and planned the ops in Afghanistan that killed 40 Taliban leaders. How about you?

[WardMClark]

Wow such cutting sarcasm from an unemployed english teacher

Actually, a productively employed publisher author, not that it has any impact on the validity of my criticism. But hey, if it doesn't bother you that your horrible writing skills (in addition to your horrible understanding of economics) makes you look like an idiot, then far be it from me to argue. Knock yourself out.

[reluctantwarrior]

My point is that we are paying for the conflict, both sides. I would rather pay farmers to grow Soybeans or corn or royalties for the oil/gas on their land then have Saudi clerics send money to Aq.

[reluctantwarrior]

Fungible isn't the end of the argument, then explain how oil will defy supply demand. I am a knuckledragger infantry pig, if the lack of grammear bothers you blame public schools.

[Gordongekko909]

My money's on nuclear, actually. Big, fat startup costs, but it's dirt-cheap after that.

[dc27]

If only we could drill for all the oil/gas off the CA & FL coast.

The other problem is, instead of going nuclear for power generation, we are building more natural gas facilities. This results in more natural gas imports.

[WardMClark]

I am a knuckledragger infantry pig, if the lack of grammear bothers you blame public schools.

Blaming someone else for your shortcomings, eh? Funny. Sounds like a liberal argument to me.

[sarasota]

Well spoken. We've got a few freepers who could use some manners.

[reluctantwarrior]

You have yet to write in your perfect prose anything other than petulant retorts. Name calling is the most effective way to win an argument, were you in the debate club?

[reluctantwarrior]

I am a radical conservative, no government other than that enumerated in the Constitution, it would cut the budget by 60 percent. Defense and little else. I am liberal( defined by Websters)in my view of paying my enemies to kill me.

[fallujah-nuker]

Frank Gaffney wrote an excellent book on the ten steps to win this conflict. The seminal one to this thread is to stop importing oil, period. We decided to land on the moon and ten years later we did it. If we would pester our professional criminal class they would do it.

Yep. If were going to fight Islamofascism the entire nation must be in the fight, just like WW2. "Guns and butter" wars have not turned out to good for us. I understand your frustration, I was too young to go to Vietnam but my father flew a lot of airlift missions over there and it was very frustrating for him. At one point he even penned a letter to Clark Clifford about all the guys he was hauling back home who were paying the price for his no-win policies. My dad got in hot water over that but in the end he came out of it smelling like a rose for telling the truth when Melvin Laird became Secretary of Defense.

It's also frustrating to see all the juvenile "IBTZ" posts to you. I appreciate your service to our nation, keep up the good work.

[KC Burke]

LOL. As we can see the offering of a rant is easier then the offering of, or the responses with, a program for the concern expressed.

Even when a program is formulated, like Bush's energy issues expressed in the State of the Union, it has to be hamstrung by the obviously contestable -- ANWAR wasn't mentioned. And if a program can't be developed by a President with a majority in both houses how can we get one from the author of a vanity or those that respond to it?

I will offer one item and one item only. We need to ask ourselves (as the poster implies) is OPEC a combatant in the WOT for the side that is trying to kill us? (Hint, hint, hint -- war in money is war "by other means")

[Mad Dawgg]

"I use biodiesel, ride my bike, and planned the ops in Afghanistan that killed 40 Taliban leaders. How about you?

We own one car (and only one) that is driven less than 5 miles per day averaged over the year, we walk to the bank, store, post office, and we live in the same building we work in.

[reluctantwarrior]

My initial post was a venting rant, I was reading the list of ten warriors lost in the helo crash off Djibouti and I snapped.

If we only fight this war militarily we have already lost, DIME stands for Diplomatic Information Military and Economic. We must fight with all elements of national power to win.

[reluctantwarrior]

Mad you rock brother

[Realism]

So for no more gain than a bit of cheap symbolism, we'd be penalizing nobody but ourselves.

Naw.. The U.S. uses so much of the available oil supply that a measly 10% cut in domestic use would make a huge impact on the market.

[ARealMothersSonForever]

Not just imported oil...

[Flifuss]

Methane Hydrates-I don't think its a matter of "if we could develop the technology", I think its more a matter of when.

Gas (Methane) Hydrates -- A New Frontier

The worldwide amounts of carbon bound in gas hydrates is conservatively estimated to total twice the amount of carbon to be found in all known fossil fuels on Earth.

Recent mapping conducted by the USGS off North Carolina and South Carolina shows large accumulations of methane hydrates.

[reluctantwarrior]

Flifuss,

Thanks for the article, it was encouraging to read a response about an emerging alternative to oil.

RW

[hermgem]

For thirty years the green crowd fought tooth and nail for reducing consumption by restricting local resources of drilling for oil and natural gas.
Here comes Chavez threatening cutoff, then we got mocked by Saudi Arabia for being unable to even refine oil should they supply it, while Osama, Chavez and Putin know darn well that one way to dismember the U.S. is a partial oil cutoff.
We are sitting on unexplored oil in Alaska, close and deep offshore resources, the off limits eastern Gulf, to the tune in excess of 40 million barrels a day.
To top it off there also come trillions of cubic feet of natural gas along with it.
And who's fighting for limiting supply, high gasoline and natural gas prices:
The green crowd operating under tax exempt status and eager to engage the liberal media along with the democrat party to indefinitely assure and justify this sweet tax exempt deal.
Why is it that Norway is considered ecologically friendly while drilling generously in the North Sea, or France which derives 78% of electrical power from nuclear energy. What makes them so acceptable, while the U.S. is roasted on the altar of ecology. Answer: there are no tax exemptions along with generous grants for an existence to justify stand stills.

[hollywood]

If we ever cross (bike) paths, the beer's on me.

[reluctantwarrior]

If we fail to drill anywhere we control that has oil then the Saudis should laugh at us. The greens are commies and want the US to be defeated just like the Islamofascists.

[reluctantwarrior]

BEER....in my most authentic Homer Simpson voice.

[jwh_Denver]

If we would pester our professional criminal class they would do it.

Nice theory but even they look at the bottom line. The Saudi's cost to take out 1 barrel of crude is $1.50. America's oil is way way above that. Unless crude rises there would be no profit incentive for major new oil exploration here. Oil companies here know where our untapped oil is at, it's just not profitable at this point to bring it to market.

[JRios1968]

if the lack of grammear bothers you blame public schools.

Nope...the blame is all yours. You have had plenty of time to improve your grammar and spelling, and obviously failed to take advantage of the adult education resources the DoD places at your disposition.

Otherwise, you do make a good argument, but how do you propose we substitute oil in our economy?

[reluctantwarrior]

Spot on in a purely economic equation, but if my cost is 20 a barrel for US exploration/extraction and I spend it on US companies, frezze out Citgo, then I fund Us ecomomic activity and not Jihadists. I know I 'm being overly simple but I am tired of losing warrior heroes without cutting the funding trail for the Islamofascists.

[reluctantwarrior]

JRios 1968

I was being sarcastic, I can write when I calm down. My initial post was a rant and I couldn't care less if the publisher/author was upset from post 1.

I take full credit for the poor grammar and spelling, my poor teachers did their best, the resulting display is all me.