Posted on 02/18/2006 11:21:08 PM PST by Tut
Ex-Official: Russia Moved Saddam's WMDs
A top Pentagon official who was responsible for tracking Saddam Hussein's weapons programs before and after the 2003 liberation of Iraq, has provided the first-ever account of how Saddam Hussein "cleaned up" his weapons of mass destruction stockpiles to prevent the United States from discovering them.
"The short answer to the question of where the WMDs Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went to Syria and Lebanon," former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John. A. Shaw told an audience Saturday at a privately sponsored "Intelligence Summit" in Alexandria, Va. (www.intelligencesummit.org)
"They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, that were specifically sent to Iraq to move the weaponry and eradicate any evidence of its existence," he said.
Shaw has dealt with weapons-related issues and export controls as a U.S. government official for 30 years, and was serving as deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security when the events he described today occurred.
He called the evacuation of Saddam's WMD stockpiles "a well-orchestrated campaign using two neighboring client states with which the Russian leadership had a long time security relationship."
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
Some subjects just won't go away.
True dat.
And the Administration isn't telling us this, because? And aside from this guy's word, what proof is there?
If they were in Syria, then they weren't available to use against our troops.
Getting Saddam to agree to this may have been one of the greatest coups of the war.
That is the best story published in Newsmax in years. Timmerman is a blue chip guy.
"Tierney said, the plasma uranium programs Saddam discussed with his aids as ongoing operations in 2000 had been dismissed as "old programs" disbanded years earlier, according to the final CIA report on Iraq's weapons programs, presented in 2004 by the Iraq Survey Group.
"When I first heard those tapes" about the uranium plasma program, "it completely floored me," Tierney said."
If the tapes prove this, that should make some headlines. I hope.
Oh no. There goes our U.S./Russian relations. Oh, that's right, we really never had any with the muslim supporting Russians anyway.
There is the claim made that, during the Cold War, we backed Iraq and the Soviet Union backed Iran. According to this claim, we are the ones that enabled Saddam to obtain WMDs.
So if that is true, why would Russia be giving WMDs to Iraq? Historically, hasn't Russian been against Iraq and for Iran?
I am confused on this claim that the Russians gave WMDs to Iraq.
This argument has never passed the smell test with me, and I totally believe that Saddam had help with removing or hiding his WMD's, and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply a partisan who is incapable of putting his/her Country ahead of his/her politics.
Saddam Hussein has adopted the DNC's talking points as part of his defense strategy as he stands trial of the countless War Crimes he is GUILTY of. I will bet that Saddam's defense team will place the Abu Graib photo's as part of his defense by saying that AMERICA is the true butcher of the Iraqi People as he demands to get his Country back, and Kofi Annan will be the first to publicly declare that the United States is the bad guy
Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney was less reticent. He thought the reason was Iran.
"With Iran moving faster than anyone thought in its nuclear programs," he told NewsMax, "the administration needed the Russians, the Chinese and the French, and was not interested in information that would make them look bad.".."
This will bite us on the ass if we have to go against Iran and the Russians don't back us. It is cynicism at its worst. We won't have most Americans behind this and cannot count on the Russians.
Iraq was armed by the Soviets, and were still a major factor during the first Gulf War - which is why I believe it was out of deference to them that we did not pursue the enemy and destroy them.
I wish I could find the quote, but in early 2003 Putin said something to the affect of "Let the Americans invade, they will find no WMD".
Where does Jay Rockefeller fit in the story and what was his purpose visiting Syria (Jordan and Saudi Arabia) in early 2002?
I don't necessarily disbelieve you. But would you be able to provide a source for that? Or, would anyone else here vouch for that claim? Or could you provide more details?
In the part of the article that does not appear on this thread, Retired Air Force Lt. General Thomas McInerney (who sometimes appears on Fox News) says he thinks the Bush Administration does not talk about Russia's assistance in moving the weapons to Syria and Lebanon because it does not want to make Russia look bad, as we need Russia's support in the Iran nuclear matter. You might want to connect to the whole Newsmax article as it sets forth other information that supports the belief that Russia was involved in helping Iraq "dispose" of the weapons.
ASAIC, you don't have to find the quote.
I remember it very well.
It was no accident that the Russian convoy was blown up on it's way out of Baghdad, either.
"Timmerman is a blue chip guy."
Yessir!
He surely is.
As are YOU. ;o)
If this is true, it brings up interesting points. For example, the Russians must know that we know that they moved some WMDs. And so of course the Russians must know that we have completely avoided making our knowledge public, even when it has caused severe damage to President Bush politically.
My memory is the source as it took place in 1991 before the internet. There may be some sources on the 'Net, however. I'll do some searching and get back with you.
What I recall is that during the final days of the Fisrt Gulf War there were high level discussions with the Soviets - who considered Saddam their friend. IMO the result (us not pursuing the Republican Guard past Basra) was because we gave in to the Soviets. At that time the Soviets were still a major power.
That is not true. The USSR armed Iraq. The USA armed Iran up until 1979. After that, the USSR armed both. The USA gave some intelligence to Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war.
Your post is one of the most HUGE bttt that I have ever given.
It was EXCELLENT!
"The big question is why the Bush Administration isn`t talking about this. Can`t understand?"
Why?
Because it's just another hoax, that's why.
"There goes our U.S./Russian relations".
Well when we were asking the UN to go in its not like they had time to move the WMD's. Then the President is made out to look like a fool for not finding them.
Hell the UN helped Sadam, we need to kick their asses out of our country and turn the UN into a usefull building.
"The big question is why the Bush Administration isn`t talking about this. Can`t understand?"
I think its because they have been beat to death about no WMDs found in Iraq and are happy to let others put it out there for now, rather then looking desperate and saying told you so, told you so, and then with no hard evidence the liberal MSM would slam them pretty hard. If all this post-war intelligence proves that the pre-war intelligence was right, it will be obvious to all.
There is supposed to be much much more captured material to go through still.
I'm sorry, you have it reversed, sort of.
Until the fall of the shah of Iran, we backed Iran, and Saddam was a soviet client. His army was soviet trained and soviet equipped. It was still soviet armed right up until the 2003 invasion.
Where it gets complicated was after the fall of the Shah, and the rise of the Ayatollah. At that point, the Saudis became terrified that Iran would invade them. At the same time, Saddam saw a chance to take Iran's arab southwest away from them, and started a war. The Saudis funded that war, and since we were very tightly allied with Saudi Arabia, it became our policy to make sure Saddam didn't lose his war.
But we sold him no armament. We did sell "dual-use" equipment, civilian equipment that could have military applications (like trucks, engines, and so forth). Our primary contribution was intelligence, making sure Saddam always knew where the Iranian troops were massing.
But it would be a mistake to say we were Saddam's ally; we were Saudi Arabia's ally. The moment Saddam became a threat to the Saudis, we dropped him so fast his head spun. He had offered us entry into his oil industry, and we had major projects on the books when he invaded Kuwait. Which is why he didn't believe we would take sides against him. But given the choice between Saddam and the Saudis, it was no contest.
In 1991 when we fought him, his weaponry was almost 100% Soviet. In 2003, when we fought him for the second time, his weaponry was 70% Russian, 20% French, 9% miscellaneous, and 1% US.
Of course they did....dont you remember us shooting up their agents fleeing to Syria?
What a pleasant treat. How are you?
Yep. And the same with Syria.
If the WMDs are really in Syria, why haven't we located and destroyed them? A few Navy Seals on the ground should be able to sniff them out. If found, a laser designator and a B-2 add up to no more WMDs.
Oh, but the Syrians might not like that, and the UN might yell at us if we violate their border.
The Left calls Bush a bully and a warmonger.
I call him dangerously weak.
We need a strong leader who will put US interests first and to heck with "coalition building" or "international opinion" or anything else. We need to support our friends, destroy our enemies, and ignore everyone else.
Bush would rather kiss up to Khofi Anan and Abdullah bin Saud and Vladimir Putin and Vicente Fox.
I don't see anyone running on any party ticket with the sort of toughness and ruthlessness that a true leader requires.
I'm doing very well.
It's a very pleasant treat for me, too. ;o)
Saddam Hussein made a fool of the U.N. and the Clinton Administration with the 17 Security Council Resolutions he simply ignored as he was launching Surface to Air Missiles at our Pilots patrolling the "No Fly Zones" over Iraq.
I have said many times that the WMD's were not the issue, his refusal to honor the terms of his surrender in 1991 was. That cease fire agreement was signed in the blood of those we lost in the first Gulf War and I can't think of a more powerful reason to remove Saddam Hussein from power than in the names of those we lost in "Operation Desert Storm", and all the other reasons for removing that mad man is simply additional nails in his Coffin
Hey! :-)
We'll see if this and/or the Sadaam tapes get as much play as Dick Cheney's Elmer Fudd incident. Our media is pathetic!
My nine year old grandson is all excited about the start of the NASCAR season. He's probably dreaming about it now.
Hey, my sweet friend!
Gosh...I hate to post and run,
but this week has tired me out.
It's so good to see you in real time!
I hope all is well with you.
I'll answer your mail ASAP.
This post...I will have to think about tomorrow.
I'm very tired, and you've posted some very
well thought out comments.
I would never short change you. ;o)
Good Night my friend, sleep well!
OMIGOSH!
NASCAR is IIITTT!
It's the best race series around.
I've driven the race courses...
the Oval is my favorite.
I hope you obtain execellent seats
for your wonderful grandson...
and for yourself. ;o)
Nam Vet
Try this:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5846.html
Time Frame: Late Summer, 2003 The MiG Dig
The story involves an Iraqi jet fighter being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops. The Iraqi jet, an advanced Russian MiG-25 Foxbat, was found buried in the sand after an informant tipped off U.S. troops.
The MiG was dug out of a massive sand dune near the Al Taqqadum airfield by U.S. Air Force recovery teams. The MiG was reportedly one of over two dozen Iraqi jets buried in the sand, like hidden treasure, waiting to be recovered at a later date. Contrary to what some in the major media have reported, not all the jets found were from the Gulf War era.
The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices.http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStories/03.09relcontinfo/relcontscans/MiG001.jpgU.S. Air Force recovery teams had to use large earth-moving equipment to uncover the MiG, which is over 70 feet long and weighs nearly 25 tons. The Foxbat is known to be one of Iraq's top jet fighters. The advanced electronic reconnaissance version found by the U.S. Air Force is currently in service with the Russian air force. The MiG is capable of flying at speeds of over 2,000 miles an hour, or three times the speed of sound, and at altitudes of over 75,000 feet.
The recovery of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force.. The Foxbat may also be equipped with advanced Russian- and French-made electronics that were sold to Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a U.N. ban on arms sales to Baghdad.
Does this help advance the theory of russian WMD in Iraq?
You are, both, such dear FRiends.
Thank you so much.
I'm off to bed.
I wish you both an excellent evening.
"I understand completely; but you know that already! :-)"
Yes, ma'am...I know you do. ;o)
"If they were in Syria, then they weren't available to use against our troops.
Getting Saddam to agree to this may have been one of the greatest coups of the war."
I'd never thought of this.
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