Homeowners Seek Relief From Citizens' High Rates [Florida]

The Tampa Tribune ^ | Feb 3, 2006 | RANDY DIAMOND

[adam c]

Not a problem. Not arguing with you, I was just curious as to the specifics as I've not encountered it. Thanks.

[ClaireSolt]

I can't fill in the details, but I strongly suspect that high insurance costs are largely the fault of state governments pretending they know more about the insurance biz than companies that have been doing it for 400 years. Did you know that billionaire Lewis of Progressive insurance made his fortune by socking it to people who fell into the auto insurance pool?

[HostileTerritory]

Suzanne Murphy, Citizens' chief legal counsel, said the days when Florida was an inexpensive place to live are gone.

That's the long and the short of it. I'm sorry, but the low-income folks aren't entitled to live here at everyone else's expense just because they were there before the ground started to open up. Pay up or make way for someone who can afford to cover the cost of living in his chosen location.

Up in the north, our heating bills are way up over last year and I don't see anyone rushing to help us out. If we want to stay in our drafty old homes, we have to pay up or move somewhere a little smaller, with better insulation. Maybe the good citizens of Pasco County should investigate asking Hugo Chavez to insure their bungalows before they fall into the Earth.

[VeniVidiVici]

I pay about $700 here in Orlando.

It's funny because the insurance companies sure didn't have a problem taking our money for the last 40 years when hurricanes were few and far between.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Insurance has gone through the roof. But the cost to insurers has also increased....it is a real dilemma, and I don't think many companies WANT to get into the market down in Florida.

So "opening it up to competition" may not bring the companies down here, unless the market can be made attractive. When you're in a potential catastrophic hurricane zone, and have been for two years running, that is gonna be tough to sell. What can Florida do? Maybe put tax incentives in place for insurance companies that invest in-state? Just thinkin' out loud here....it won't be a quick fix, whatever the case.

[TruthNtegrity]

buying a home here now is like buying one in California

or n.j.....

Or Virginia.

However, I moved to FL, just in time for the meteorologist's to come out with their 10-year forecast for "increased hurricanes" in both strength and number. Oh joy. NOT

My homeowner's insurance has gone up 50% - from $2500 to $4000 in just the last year! If Allstate gets their increase passed, I don't even know what it'll go to.

Yep, - I'm going shopping for a new home this Spring. Looking at New Mexico, Arizona, Texas. WEST side of Texas, away from "hurricane alley".

[TruthNtegrity]

That concrete-covered home is in Pensacola but the problem is - while Escambia County (where Pensy is) has gone through the permitting process, over here in Okaloosa, I'm not looking forward to it.

I WAS thinking about building one, watching MSNBC film crew go through Ivan in that dome home. But finding land to built on at less than $100K is very difficult.

I'm afraid I can no longer afford to live in FL - even this part of FL that is supposed to be one of the 'cheaper' places to live.

[TChris]

Would that be this house?

They Huffed and They Puffed, But They Couldn't Blow This House Down

[TruthNtegrity]

There is another growing problem in FL and I'm wondering how many people are learning about it before they get here. I certainly didn't.

I don't know if it's the "Rush Limbaugh pain meds circus" or what, but I can't find a Doctor to keep me on the pain meds I've been on since 1996. I went to aother practice today - one that I was told would give me a small prescription to tide me over, until I found a "pain management practice" in the area. Nope - they now refuse to prescribe any pain meds, and even strong analgesics (Soma) are on their "we don't write for those" list now!!!

I'm about to start picketing Jebbie Bush's office with a sign that reads, "Don't move to FL unless you have a Doc back home to continue your pain meds."

Unfortunately, I'm not a dual- or multi-state resident, and now my goose is cooked.

Going to more than one Doctor gets expensive, but that's what I'm up against now.

I had no idea. I checked out the area - for DO's, since I think so highly of them, but most of the DO's in this are have used it as a launching pad to go on to another speciailty - Opthamology, Ob/Gyn, etc.

Very few "family practice physicians" in the area, and those that are here, won't prescribe any pain meds.

[baltoga]

Well if you're wondering how people afford it, the simple truth many cannot. The year 2005 saw over 2,000,000 people declare bankruptcy - the most is USA history. Now granted, many filed before the new bankruptcy laws take hold, but 2,000,000 is still 2,000,000.

[Jacquerie]

I'll sell when Floridians move to Pennsylvania, NY, Ohio, Michigan, etc in greater numbers than they move here.

[mattdono]

These increases wouldn't be so large if insurers charged more regularly and put more money aside for widespread claims, however the government has kept them from doing so and has put caps on their insurance rates in the past.

This is the best point made on this thread so far. And, here is where the icky politics of the situation and some aspect of the socialism/communism that we have been sliding towards comes into play

First, politicians use natural disasters as politic soap boxes on what should be the case ("we should do this better", "the insurance companies need to do that better").

This really is despicable when you think clearly about it, but most of the perception is that the politician cares about the people. And, I'm sure, some of the politicians really do care. However, most are doing it to maintain or gain noteriaty and enhance their political position.

No, it's usually the state reps & senators that make it a point to gain political advantage by smacking an insurance company over the head with their bloviating. And, why not? Insurance companies are often painted (rightly or wrongly) as a "villian"...they are really an easy target.

So, part of that formula is standing on their soap-box and voting with their votes to "protect the little guy" against the "eeevil" insurance company, meaning no increases. Insurance companies are often denied what is not too much more than would be considered "natural" increase (inflation, cost of housing contruction/reconstruction, etc.), which has to be a consideration for any insurer. So, indeed, when the proverbial "$h*t hits the fan", if there is any chance of regaining the natural equilibrium, there is going to be greater than desired increases.

And, this kind of political grandstanding is nowhere near as the oft-used "photo op" accusation a sitting President is slapped with when touring an hurricane-ravaged area.

But, the reason people buy into that is this not-so-slow slide into socialism that we have been on for years. It is nowhere near as despicable, in my opinion.

As the saying goes, "with every right there is a responsibility". Homeowners must first take responsibility for their home/property. They must build right and make the structures as resistant as possible to these threats. Unfortunately, with the modern conveinences of life comes cookie-cutter style housing that isn't built to the standards that someone who was building a house to last 200 years would. (The reason for that is a thread all by itself).

And, since so many Americans freak out about having a gun in their home to protect themselves and their loved ones, what should make us think that they would "go the extra mile" when it comes to building a solid home?

It's all part of the "someone else will take care of it" or "someone else should pay for this, I shouldn't have to" mentality that has been a plague on this country since FDR.

I swear there are times when I want to find an 1950's, fortified Army bunker and make it a home. But, in the meantime, I live in the middle of the state, I have a very sturdy home, and a whole-house generator. Next step...Batcave...then, I'll be good to go.

[bert]

...... it seems like buying a home here now is like buying one in California.....

Let's think on that.

First there should be a numerical comparison between hurricanes in FL and earthquakes, mudslides and fires in CA. In general it would seem that the CA disasters are localized and not annual whereas hurricanes are annual and multiply annually and occur over most of the state in FL The discussion is about insurance premiums which are based on risk and experience.

The correct way to look at the premium is not that you are going to be overcharged, but that for the past you have been undercharged. You should have been paying more all along for the risks against which you were insured.

The alternative is pretty simple, build a hurricane proof house.

[ExSES]

Citizens should be run out of this state.

Citizens IS THE STATE! It is the "Insurer of Last Resort" for those who private insurers refuse to insure! If they don't cover their losses, taxpayers will ultimately have to do so!

I am not happy to pay 3 times what I was paying on insurance 5 years ago but I consider myself fortunate that I am still able to get homeowners' insurance!

There are three forces at work here! Number one, Florida is back in an active hurricane cycle, a great deal of construction has occurred in vulnerable Atlantic/Gulf adjacent counties,AND, with the huge influx of people moving into Florida, housing value have skyrocketed!

Many folks with VERY MODEST homes have seen their values go up by multiples over the past 10 years! The end result is much higher taxes and and insurance premiums!

[bill1952]

I would hope that they at least have the benefit of Homestead exemption to cap the tax rate.
How many states have that?

I do, and without it, my tax rates would have skyrocketed.
I've had the same insurance for 15 years. - currently at $922 per annum.

I certainly agree with your post.

[ExSES]

I would hope that they at least have the benefit of Homestead exemption to cap the tax rate. How many states have that?

Florida's "Homestead Exemption" has been $25,000 for many years. In addition, Florida's "Save Our Homes(SOH)" restricts property tax increases to the CPI or 3% /year, whichever is less. As a result, the longer you live in a home, the greater your savings.

I have a neighbor who has lived in his home for 20 years... his property tax bill is about $2,000/year and without SOH restrictions, his property taxes/year would be about $7,500 now. When he ultimately sells, the new buyer will start at no less than $7,500/year in property taxes but, due to conservative property appraisals it, is more likely that a new buyer would start at around $9,000/year in property taxes!

[GladesGuru]

One consequence of a million dollar limit on home insurance might be that people would stop putting large amounts of money into gaudy homes paid for in part by the sharing of storm liability with the poorer inland residents.

Such an insurance cap might induce investment rather than ostentatious construction.

Incouraging of investment - what a strange, new idea to Florida.

[Jacquerie]

Real estate has been a great investment these past few years. Home construction supports the building trades, manufacturers of appliances, windows, etc. Thus, your gaudy homes help the poor. If someone wanted to increase unemployment overnight, a quick way would be to tell the rich that their money is no longer welcome in Florida.

As for subsidy, the poor in Florida pay much less as a percentage compared to the wealthy. Investment property is fully taxed each year, whereas homesteaded property tax is limited to inflation or 3%, whichever is lower. Thus, we have out of state investors paying much of the local property and especially school taxes. Speaking of subsidy, why should I pay several thousand a year in school taxes when I have no children in the FL school system?

[GladesGuru]

I'll raise you one. Given the total meltdowm status of FloriDUH's schools - why should anyone be forced to pay for them?

[Jacquerie]

Because the teacher's unions have the pols and judges by the short hairs.