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Survivors Praise Body, Vehicle Armor to House Subcommittee
American Forces Press Service ^ | 1 February 2006 | Donna Miles

Posted on 02/01/2006 10:24:24 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham

American Forces Press Service


Survivors Praise Body, Vehicle Armor to House Subcommittee

By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Feb. 1, 2006 – Three soldiers just back from Iraq -- including two who credit personal and vehicle armor with saving their lives -- traveled to Capitol Hill today to tell Congress that when it comes to protecting troops, more isn't always better.

"We're here to say we're pretty happy with what we have," Brig. Gen. Karl Horst, the 3rd Infantry Division's assistant division commander for maneuver, told the American Forces Press Service before appearing at today's House Armed Services Committee's Tactical Air and Land Forces Subcommittee hearing.

While welcoming improvements in the systems that protect troops and their vehicles, Horst said it's a misconception that it's possible to fully protect U.S. troops. "What we do is an inherently dangerous business," he said. "There are no silver bullets, and there are no protective bubbles that you can put us in."

Providing better personal and vehicle protection has a "Catch 22" factor, Horst noted. Insurgents will adapt to improved armor by using bigger bullets. And because enhanced equipment is typically heavier and bulkier than what it replaces, it can actually hamper troops' ability to operate in combat, he said.

"You must have a reasonable expectation about the level of protection you can provide without compromising the mission," Horst said. "There are no absolutes. There is no 100-percent solution. We will continue to work toward 100 percent, but we will never get there, because if you build a bigger (protective) plate, the bad guy figures out that he needs a bigger bullet to penetrate the bigger plate."

Horst has good reason to be happy with the protection his up-armored Humvee provided when it was hit by a roadside bomb in early January. The blast, which sent quarter-inch ball bearings flying into his windshield and destroyed the M1114 vehicle, never touched the crew compartment. Horst and three crewmembers walked away without a scratch.

"I am absolutely crediting the protection of the M1114 with saving my life," he said. "Had I not been in an up-armored Humvee, those 24 quarter-inch ball bearings would have come through the windshield like a shotgun blast."

Army Sgt. Anthony Dowden shares Horst's appreciation for the personal protection he wore while deployed to Baghdad with the 3rd ID's C Company, 164th Armor. Dowden was standing in the hatch of an M1 Abrams tank making observations during a patrol when a sniper's round hit him in the chest last March, stopped by the small-arms protective inserts in his protective vest.

"It felt like one of Mark McGwire's home-run baseballs," said Dowden said, referring to the now-retired Oakland A's and St. Louis Cardinals slugger. He was knocked off his feet and fell into the turret, but suffered only a bruised kidney from the blast. After one night in the hospital, Dowden returned to his unit, and he was back on the street conducting patrols within three days of the attack.

Dowden said he has no doubt that his protective vest saved his life, and he said he believes many Americans think U.S. troops don't have the protection they need. "They say that we don't have the right armor, or that we're not getting it fast enough," Dowden said. "But if I didn't have it, I probably wouldn't be here. It saved my life."

Army Sgt. 1st Class Jaime Wells, who's served as both a light-infantry and mechanized soldier in Iraq, said troops are confident in their protective gear because they've seen it tested in combat. "And a soldier going to combat with confidence in his gear can do anything," Wells told the subcommittee.

Improved systems could be a big benefit for some soldiers, like those who stand in a tower for 12-hour shifts pulling security duties. But for other soldiers, like those who patrol Iraq's streets on foot, where they need to walk and maneuver easily, the added weight and bulkiness of the improved body armor could be detrimental, he said.

The third-generation body armor the Army is looking at, which at 31 pounds weighs twice as much as the current vest, could actually interfere with soldiers' ability to operate, Wells said. "Let's look at the weight," he said. "And what is this taking away tactically from the soldier in terms of speed and maneuverability that can have an adverse effect?"

Wells recalled the evolution of body armor, from his first deployment to Iraq when he and many of his fellow soldiers wore protective vests with no SAPI plates, to today's enhanced body armor systems. To reduce troops' vulnerability, front and back protective plates were added to the vests, then slide plates, then shoulder and crotch protections, he said.

"What happens now, when that's all covered, and soldiers we are losing are getting leg or arm wounds?" he asked. "Are we going to armor those too?"

Ultimately, some level of risk has to be accepted, Wells said. "This is not an easy job and nobody, including President Bush, has ever said what we are doing is easy or not dangerous," he said. "There is just an acceptable risk that sometimes you have to take."

Wells also expressed concern that if enhanced equipment is fielded to the battlefield too quickly, some deployed soldiers could find themselves using equipment they've never had an opportunity to properly train with. For example, different body armor can affect the way a soldier holds and fires a weapon, he said. "To be successful, you need to train on the equipment you're using before being in full conflict," Wells said.

The soldiers agreed that the Army and Defense Department should continue efforts to improve body armor for deployed troops. In doing so, Horst said, it's important to keep two questions in mind: "How much is enough and how much is too much? And what do you need to be able to accomplish your mission?"

Ideally, he said, units should deploy with a full complement of personal protective gear, and unit leaders and noncommissioned officers should identify the best configuration for their troops, based on their location and mission.

"What you need is a menu approach to the level of protection that we use, based on the mission you have asked us to accomplish, the enemy that we are operating against, the environment we are operating against and the duration of the mission," Horst said.

The key to success in Iraq and on the battlefield ultimately boils down to something far beyond protective gear, he said. "It's the synergy of other four things that leads to success: the best-quality soldiers in the world, best-trained soldiers in the world, best equipment in the world and best small-unit leaders in the world," he said.

News Archive News Archive

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2006/20060201_4077.html


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; aftermathanalysis; bodyarmor; equipment; gear; iraq; oif; oifveterans; probe

1 posted on 02/01/2006 10:24:26 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham

MSM blackout in place.


2 posted on 02/01/2006 10:26:21 PM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: ncountylee
Here's what we need.

L

3 posted on 02/01/2006 10:29:44 PM PST by Lurker (I trust in God. Everybody else shows me their hands.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

There's more common sense in these three military men than in the entirety of Congress. Thank God that our military, and not Congress, is defending us. We'd all be dead if it were the other way around.


4 posted on 02/01/2006 10:31:09 PM PST by hsalaw
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To: DevSix; Sarajevo; jb6; Romanov
The third-generation body armor the Army is looking at, which at 31 pounds weighs twice as much as the current vest, could actually interfere with soldiers' ability to operate, Wells said. "Let's look at the weight," he said. "And what is this taking away tactically from the soldier in terms of speed and maneuverability that can have an adverse effect?"

Thirty-one pounds will create slow targets for the enemy. I would rather be a faster and more elusive.
5 posted on 02/01/2006 10:36:25 PM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: GarySpFc

Oh, good God. A 31 pound vest on top of a 70 lb ruck, a 10 lb uniform, your weapon, ammunition, water, MREs, etc. Yeah, you'll be able to roll and manuever all right. Not to mention the present crappy vest (the chicken vest worn by crew members stops bullets better, we shot both in Bosnia to test them) raises you core body temp by 10 degrees.


6 posted on 02/01/2006 10:43:55 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: GarySpFc; jb6
"I would rather be a faster and more elusive."

What about on a security detail at a Baghdad intersection?

Granted while on patrol in full gear, the load is HEAVY! But without the pack and everything else close in a vehicle, having that extra protection is lighter with that peace of mind.

7 posted on 02/01/2006 10:51:35 PM PST by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

The media would sooner all quit their jobs than cover this story. They would rather be dead.


8 posted on 02/01/2006 11:07:55 PM PST by samtheman
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To: endthematrix
What about on a security detail at a Baghdad intersection?

With a 31 pound package you are going to WADDLE in the intersection getting away from cars and shooters. No thanks, I would far rather be more mobile and elusive on my feet.
9 posted on 02/01/2006 11:09:16 PM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: hsalaw

Hillary knows better than the men in Iraq, of course../s


10 posted on 02/01/2006 11:38:25 PM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: Lurker
LOL. I still love that movie. The libs would love to see our troops with the heavier armor, then we could lose more men and the war! SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
11 posted on 02/02/2006 12:15:37 AM PST by madconserv (Proud to be FReepin--Support Our Troops)
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To: endthematrix
You would wear 31 pounds of armor, plus your normal gear, plus your weapon and ammo while standing in a Baghdad intersection when the temperature is 105 plus?

You'd last about 10 minutes...

L

12 posted on 02/02/2006 12:54:20 AM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everybody else shows me their hands.)
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To: ncountylee
MSM blackout in place.

Here's what I'd like to know: The RATS are very good at putting together after-event press conferences in the Rotunda or on the Capitol steps that get picked up by the news organizations and C-SPAN. Does our side even try the same?

They could have some wino from East LA appear before a subcommittee to talk about the dangers of sharp edges on Ripple and Mad Dog screwtops, and you know afterwards that Moms Mabley Waters will round up a few of her fellow reds and be raving in front of cameras and microphones how it's Bush's fault that winos are being sliced and diced by Big Wine.

I know the gatekeepers at the MSM biggies do not just bury stories on A-23, but delete them outright, and in the face of that, even the most ambitious journalist has to figure it's a losing battle, but I think our side makes it all too easy. And given the way body armor has been used more to bash the Bush administration than to protect our troops, it's unconscionable that this did not get more attention by the Stupid Party.

13 posted on 02/02/2006 2:13:52 AM PST by Dahoser (Time to condense the nonsense: Terry Tate for Congressional Linebacker.)
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To: GarySpFc

31lbs is nuts, especially in that environment.


14 posted on 02/02/2006 7:42:46 AM PST by Sarajevo
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To: Sarajevo

Hey Sarajevo, take your team and lug that .50 caliber up that hill, and make certain you wear that new armor and take your ruck and other equipment.


15 posted on 02/02/2006 8:01:45 AM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: endthematrix

I wore Level 2 body armor once, couldn't get into a humvee, the chest armor and back armor had me wedged in like a turtle. Stupidist thing because even if the 7.62mm doesn't get through, all the blunt kenetic energy still does and that will cause internal bleeding all its own. But as a plus to the gunmen, you're slow and clumsy.


16 posted on 02/02/2006 9:12:43 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: GarySpFc

Don't forget the spare barrel, the tri-pod, the Singar, the flares, the porta potty and the welcome basket for any Islamics that come up.


17 posted on 02/02/2006 9:13:54 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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