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To: Spiff

Let's start with the notion of who is, and who is a not a bigot.

Anyone who wishes to pigeonhole people according to race, and whose message seems to be directed at the way people should, or should not behave with the driving force behind the behavior being race, is a racist. So Jesse Jackson is a racist when he makes the claim that all black people should behave one way or another, believe this thing or that thing, or vote for this politician or that one because they are black, and Rev. Jesse is just as much a racist when he counters Jesse's beliefs with his own on edicts on how people should behave as a result of their race, and whether they should repudiate Jesse Jackson.

Reverend Jesse Peterson founded BOND, and is a member of Project 21, a group that clams to be a "leading voice of the African-American community", both racially-driven organizations.

You just like Reverend Peterson's brand of racism more than Reverend Jackson's brand...that's all.

People are just people, and their beliefs and behavior should be dictated ONLY by their own, individual free will. Not by their race, not by their gender, not by their ethnicity.

You discuss my behavior?

You are misconstruing my behavior, my so-called "behavior" is nothing more than the free expression of my opinion, which is every bit as weighty as yours; you hold no higher a place in this society than I do, we are both free citizens of a free nation, able to speak our minds without fear.

Your problem is intolerance, and a complete lack of understanding of the concept of freedom.

Everett is a self-proclaimed Marxist who invented a heritage celebration for others to FREELY follow or ignore.

In this country, one is FREE to be a Marxist, one is free to invent a religion, and one is free to invent others to follow him.

No one appointed you, or Reverend Jesse Peterson for that matter, as deliverers, saving others from the evil act of freely following Everett's lead. Thomas Jefferson said that "truth is great and will prevail if left to herself", and truth will do fine without your help.

Simply stated, freedom is an individual's ability to think as he wishes to think, and to advocate whatever he wishes to advocate as long as the prevailing laws of the land are not broken. To the best of my knowledge, being a Marxist is not illegal in this nation, nor is being a black supremacist any more illegal than being a white supremacist.

People are free to celebrate Kwanzaa, free to follow Everett, and free to believe whatever they want to believe, it's what makes this nation truly great.

And in the act of freely acknowledging Kwanzaa, President Bush paid homage not to Everett, or even to his made-up celebration, but rather to the to the ideals that founded this country, and to her greatness.

And he played a little politics in the process.

He's allowed.

I'm not going to talk to you any more about this subject, or probably any other subject for that matter, but I will leave you with this thought, and this thought ties in to my calling Reverend Jesse Peterson a racist of a different flavor, one more palatable to you (obviously).

There are literally dozens of conservative organizations that I could join as a conservative of Hispanic heritage, or Cuban birth...but I refuse to join anything that seeks to pigeonhole me, and refuse to participate or to even support any organization that appeals to anything other than my political ideas, and my American citizenship.

Reverend Jesse Peterson would impress me far more if he stopped seeking to speak for all blacks, while criticizing Reverend Jesse Jackson for doing the exact same thing.

Mr. Everett's Kwanzaa, if it actually survives its inventor, will be absorbed by the nation's cultural maelstrom. It will be commercialized, trivialized, and pasteurized beyond recognition.

Just like Christmas, Easter, and any other significant (and REAL) Holiday has been.


251 posted on 01/03/2006 7:49:31 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Anyone who wishes to pigeonhole people according to race, and whose message seems to be directed at the way people should, or should not behave with the driving force behind the behavior being race, is a racist. So Jesse Jackson is a racist when he makes the claim that all black people should behave one way or another, believe this thing or that thing, or vote for this politician or that one because they are black, and Rev. Jesse is just as much a racist when he counters Jesse's beliefs with his own on edicts on how people should behave as a result of their race, and whether they should repudiate Jesse Jackson.

I'll use your logic here to prove how absurd your points have been. Here goes: Who made you the final arbiter of who and who is not a racist or a bigot? Who are you to try to deny Rev. Jesse Peterson's right to express his opinions about the problems in the black community and with Rev. Jesse Jackson? It is his right to believe whatever he wants and follow whatever he wants. Why would you try to deny him that?

People are free to celebrate Kwanzaa, free to follow Everett, and free to believe whatever they want to believe, it's what makes this nation truly great.

Again, I never said that I wanted Kwanzaa banned so your silly and repeated accusations that I'm trying to deny anyone their freedom of religion, expression, or the celebration of their heritage is just stupid. So, they can say, do, believe what they want or follow whatever they want. I never denied them that or said that I would deny them that. You made that up. That being said, I'm also free to say want I want in opposition to what they say, I'm free to believe whatever I want in opposition to whatever they believe, I'm free to follow whomever or whatever I want in opposition to whatever they believe. I am free to state my opposition, even in the strongest terms, to Kwanzaa yet you would deny me that as you believe falsely that I am a "racist", a "bigot", a member of the "Christian Taliban", a "holier than though jackass" and any number of other bigoted epithets you have thrown at me and others who have freely stated their opinions. You often quote Jefferson in his statements about freedom, yet you would deny me the freedom to state my opinions (which are based upon solid facts, by the way) because you disagree so strongly (and ignorantly) with my opinions.

You discuss my behavior? You are misconstruing my behavior, my so-called "behavior" is nothing more than the free expression of my opinion,

That is exactly what you've been doing to me and others who rightfully state their opposing opinion about Kwanzaa, its founder, its origin, and its underlying design and intent. Precisely.

Your problem is intolerance, and a complete lack of understanding of the concept of freedom.

Right back at ya.

No one appointed you, or Reverend Jesse Peterson for that matter, as deliverers, saving others from the evil act of freely following Everett's lead. Thomas Jefferson said that "truth is great and will prevail if left to herself", and truth will do fine without your help.

I never said they did. In case you haven't looked around, but this is Free Republic wherein conservatives state their opinions about the news articles and such that are posted. I stated some opinions and you attacked me and started making up all kinds of lies about my motives and distortions about what I said in an attempt to shout me down, shut me up, and/or have the thread locked, deleted, or thrown into the Smoky Backroom. All I did was stated my informed opinion and that started you on a 6-day wherein you hijacked the thread with your constant ad hominems and posts completely devoid of actual facts.

Reverend Jesse Peterson would impress me far more if he stopped seeking to speak for all blacks, while criticizing Reverend Jesse Jackson for doing the exact same thing.

Rev. Jesse Peterson does not try to speak for all blacks any more than you try to speak for all Cuban born Americans. That's just another one of your distortions, again attacking another good conservative as you've attacked so many in the past.

There are literally dozens of conservative organizations that I could join as a conservative of Hispanic heritage, or Cuban birth...but I refuse to join anything that seeks to pigeonhole me, and refuse to participate or to even support any organization that appeals to anything other than my political ideas, and my American citizenship.

But you're so quick to pigeonhole others as "racists", "bigots", "xenophobes", "Christian Taliban", "holier than though jackasses" and a whole menagerie of bigoted epithets. You've filled threads on Kwanzaa, Intelligent Design, and border security with your constant pigeonholing of others, pretending that you they're something that they are not, distorting what they say, and inventing motives for their opinions. Your reputation here is well know in this respect. You've labeled me a hypocrite a number of times, now it is my turn to call you one right back.

So, take your ball and go home just as you said you would. No one asked for your ad hominem attacks and ranting posts devoid of any substance anyway. No one likes to be called a racist and a bigot simply for pointing out some politically incorrect facts. And, as you falsely said of something I said, that is the tactics of the leftist media.

252 posted on 01/03/2006 8:44:07 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
And in the act of freely acknowledging Kwanzaa, President Bush paid homage not to Everett, or even to his made-up celebration, but rather to the to the ideals that founded this country, and to her greatness. And he played a little politics in the process.

Whoops, forgot to respond to this gem.

Um...bullcrap! Bush paid homage to a racist black separatist holiday designed to sow racial division within the black community and spread marxist beliefs. Unless those are the ideals upon which this country was founded, then you're wrong.

You just like Reverend Peterson's brand of racism more than Reverend Jackson's brand...that's all.

It is ironic that you're so quick to attack Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson and other black ministers as "racist" simply for voicing their informed opinions about Kwanzaa and its founder, yet you've not posted a single word opposing the racism of Karenga and his invented holiday. Ironic and very telling.

255 posted on 01/03/2006 8:55:16 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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