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Bush Extends Greetings To All Celebrating Kwanzaa
US Dept of State ^ | December 19, 2005 | George W. Bush

Posted on 12/28/2005 11:40:33 AM PST by presidio9

President Bush December 19 sent warm greetings to all who are celebrating Kwanzaa -- a seven-day observance emphasizing seven principles of African culture.

Kwanzaa, which will begin December 26, represents an African-American and pan-African holiday celebrating family, community and culture.

For additional information see Holidays and African Americans.

Following is the text of the statement:

THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary December 19, 2005

December 2005

I send greetings to those observing Kwanzaa.

African Americans and people around the world reflect on African heritage during Kwanzaa. The seven days of this celebration emphasize the seven principles of Nguzo Saba -- unity, self-determination, collective work and responsibility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity, and faith. These values contribute to a culture of citizenship and compassion, and Kwanzaa activities help pass on African values and traditions to future generations.

As families and friends gather for Kwanzaa, Americans remember the many contributions African Americans have made to our country's character and celebrate the diversity that makes our Nation strong. May your commitment to family, faith, and community thrive during this holiday season and throughout the coming year.

Laura and I send our best wishes for a happy Kwanzaa.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: blackchristmas; bush43; falsereligion; happyblackpantherday; kwanzaa; marxistholidays; pc
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To: kajingawd
"...6 kids walking around waiting for santa to magically appear out of one of the 3 drums that were being thumped on."

Did they happen to tell you exactly when they planned to start the revolution?

201 posted on 12/30/2005 9:46:12 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
So, you are the arbiter of how others celebrate; no wonder you admire and defend Nazis.

I do not admire nor defend Nazia. You are a liar and you've always been a liar.

That's what is wrong with people like you; it isn't sufficient that you have freedom to celebrate whatever you wish to celebrate however you wish, you also have to dictate what and how others celebrate whatever they wish to celebrate.

I never once said that Kwanzaa should be banned. I only expressed my displeasure at President Bush joining ONLY President Clinton in giving any official recognition to this illegitimate and heinous observance.

You judge. Do I support the establishment of a separate black nation? What kind of stupidity are you spouting now? Do you attribute whatever bulls%it extremists groups say to the larger segment of the population?

You missed the point - again - for the hundredth time. I asked the questions because those are the stated goals of Kwanzaa's founder, the stated goals for which Kwanzaa was founded, and the underlying goals of Kwanzaa. I didn't make it up. It comes from the words of Kwanzaa's founder and from the official Kwanzaa books and resources.

Idiots like you have been blabbing about an imminent racial revolution since my college days in the 1970's...where the hell is it, other than in your twisted heads.

It is not me that is "blabbing" about racial revolution. It is Ron Everett and the other racists black nationalists who have stated that goal, support that goal, and have invented a holiday to further that goal. Don't attack me, attack them.

Why would anyone, other than an abject bigot, try to throw dirt on such an innocuous, and positive event?

If you have read, as you claim to have read, the posts exposing the founder, origin, goals, intent, and nature of Kwanzaa using the founder's own words and that of the official Kwanzaa resources you would not claim that Kwanzaa is "innocuous and positive". The reason it is dressed up in such a benign appearance is to lull people into subscribing to it. You seem to attribute the claims posted here about Kwanzaa to me, but you fail to recognize the source for those claims which are the writings and statements of Kwanzaa's own founder.

202 posted on 12/31/2005 1:55:51 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff

I love how you exclude the parts of my argument that you can't defend against.

When you first engaged in your absurd attempt at demonizing a handful of Kwanzaa celebrants by comparing them to Nazis, you lost this argument. When you then tried claiming that they had no heritage, yet out of the other side if your mouth tried linking them to the situation in Africa in order to minimize the atrocities committed by the Nazis, you lost the respect of even those who may have supported you.

That's leftist media tactics.

President Bush is not bound to only say those things that you want him to say; he does not belong strictly to you, and becoming President doesn't mean that he is not at liberty to say whatever he wishes to say, for whatever reasons he wishes to.

If he said for the sake of political gain, he still had a right to say it...a right given to him by God, and not revoked by your vote.

You never understood freedom, and you never will.


203 posted on 12/31/2005 2:31:24 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I love how you exclude the parts of my argument that you can't defend against.

Wrong. And may I point out that you've excluded nearly every part of my posts except for the things that you believe you can twist and destort the easiest.

When you first engaged in your absurd attempt at demonizing a handful of Kwanzaa celebrants by comparing them to Nazis, you lost this argument. When you then tried claiming that they had no heritage, yet out of the other side if your mouth tried linking them to the situation in Africa in order to minimize the atrocities committed by the Nazis, you lost the respect of even those who may have supported you.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never compared Kwanzaa celebrants to Nazis. I compared the bloody and oppressive record of the African continenent over the last century with the record of the Nazis. I also compared the record of marxists/socialists/communists over the last century. My point, that obviously went right over your head, was that IF they were celebrating an "African" heritage, as they pretend to, then we must look at that actual heritage to see if it something that should ever be celebrated. Instead of addressing that point you destort what I said and try to say that I'm admiring and defending Nazis. You've proven yourself a liar given to gross distortions and someone who will call anyone and everyone they disagree with a racist and a bigot. You've done this repeatedly in this thread any many others. It is your only game and it is damned stupid.

President Bush is not bound to only say those things that you want him to say; he does not belong strictly to you, and becoming President doesn't mean that he is not at liberty to say whatever he wishes to say, for whatever reasons he wishes to.

I never said that he was bound to anything I said or that he wasn't at liberty to say whatever he wishes to say. You completely avoided my point earlier that if he had recognized a KKK or Nazi holiday, that it would have been inappropriate. You refused to say that it would, in fact, be appropriate so, using your previously displayed logic, one can only assume that you would approve of President Bush recognizing a KKK holiday or something similar. I could fill post after post with that accusation, as you have here directed towards me, but I know for a fact that even if you refuse to admit it and just so that you won't have to concede that point, you don't really believe that the President should recognize a KKK or Nazi holiday.

If he said for the sake of political gain, he still had a right to say it...a right given to him by God, and not revoked by your vote. You never understood freedom, and you never will.

See my previous point. He can say whatever he wants to say, but he can't avoid the political consequences of saying them. He is free to recognize a KKK holiday if he so desires, but he's going to get rightfully slammed for doing so. The same goes for his Kwanzaa declaration. The KKK wanted and still want a white nation and have resorted to violence to further their white supremacist agenda and the Founder of Kwanzaa and his gang wanted and still want a black nation and have resorted to violence to further their black supremacist goals. Yet I'm mostly certain that I would not find you on Free Republic defending the President's proclamation recognizing and lauding a KKK holiday. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there despite the lies and distortions you've stated about me and your refusal to similarly afford me the same courtesy.

204 posted on 12/31/2005 4:00:07 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff
"I never compared Kwanzaa celebrants to Nazis."

Selective memory?

Your entire argument was based on the notion that people would be upset if Bush acknowledged a Nazi or a Klan-created Holiday.

You see, you just can't help but to lie, because your own argument is so idiotic.

"IF they were celebrating an "African" heritage, as they pretend to, then we must look at that actual heritage to see if it something that should ever be celebrated"

So, should Americans not celebrate a heritage that includes the burning of witches, the near genocidal treatment of the native inhabitants of this continent, slavery, and the legal murder of millions of unborn children in the name of freedom of choice?

Or are you now going to back up on your absurd two-faced argument once again?

"You completely avoided my point earlier that if he had recognized a KKK or Nazi holiday, that it would have been inappropriate."

I thought you weren't comparing Kwanzaa celebrants to Nazis and Klansmen?

Keep your lies straight, will you?

Your entire post, and argument, is centered around the individual who founded Kwanzaa...so much crap.

What he did has nothing to do with the current celebration, or the celebrants.

Furthermore, he paid his debt to society.

Give it a rest.

205 posted on 01/01/2006 5:02:11 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Your entire post, and argument, is centered around the individual who founded Kwanzaa...so much crap. What he did has nothing to do with the current celebration, or the celebrants.

Why do you continue to completely ignore the intent of Kwanzaa, the OFFICIAL Kwanzaa website, the OFFICIAL "keepers of the Kwanzaa tradition", and the books on the goals and intent of Kwanzaa written by its founder? Do you pretend that Kwanzaa is completely separate from its stated intent and design? Is Kwanzaa an even more fake holiday in that it started as a fake holiday of so-called African heritage and is now even more fake because it is even disconnected from its origin, founder, goals, and intent? Why is Karenga still invited to all of the huge Kwanzaa celebrations if he is no longer the big Kwanzaa Kahuna? If he IS still the King Kwanzaaite, then how can his writings - past and current -about Kwanzaa, its goals and intent be completely disconnected from Kwanzaa? They simply can't be. Only YOU choose to do so because your glorious vision of Kwanzaa as you saw with the silly people who celebrated it does not match the truth of Kwanzaa as established by, written by, and furthered by its founder.

206 posted on 01/01/2006 7:00:35 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff
"Why do you continue to completely ignore the intent of Kwanzaa, the OFFICIAL Kwanzaa website, the OFFICIAL "keepers of the Kwanzaa tradition"

The official keepers of the Kwanzaa tradition?

Those would be people like my neighbor and his family; a Christian family with better values than you, who observe Kwanzaa to give themselves a sense of heritage.

Apparently, observing one's heritage is OK by you, as long as that heritage is Eurocaucasian. St. Patrick's Day is fine to you, Cinco De Mayo isn't.

Oktoberfest is fine to you, Kwanzaa isn't.

That's because you are a bigot.

To point out some bulls#it, published by some fringe, nutjob, radical extremist group, hold it up as an example, and then paint anyone who actually observes the celebration with a paint brush dippedin the pages of their words is so you.

You do it at all levels, about all people.

All Muslims are (fill in the blank), all Mexicans are (fill in the blank), all immigrants are (fill in the blank).

You lie at every turn; out of one side of your mouth you compare Kwanzaa celebrants to Nazis, then you deny doing it in the very same post that you compare them to Nazis.

You hate everyone and anyone who isn't you...your race, your ethnicity, your religion.

May God have mercy on you.

207 posted on 01/01/2006 7:24:57 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Those would be people like my neighbor and his family; a Christian family with better values than you, who observe Kwanzaa to give themselves a sense of heritage.

Have you asked that Christian family how they feel about Everett founding Kwanzaa as an "oppositional alternative" to the "spookism" of Christianity? Maybe they're unaware of it and are celebrating the holiday in ignorance to its origin and purpose.

This is what I've found about Kwanzaa, in the words of its founder and keeper, that I've posted in this and other threads that you seem to be avoiding:

Karenga himself says that Kwanzaa is an "oppositional alternative" to Christianity - which he calls "spookism" and "eurocentric". He claims the Bible is myth and rejects Jesus Christ.

"...Kwanzaa is not an imitation, but an alternative, in fact, and oppositional alternative to the spookism, mysticism and non-earth based practices which plague us as a people . . . "
pg 14, Kwanzaa: Origin, Concepts, Practice. Karenga, 1977

Karenga defines "spookism" as "belief in spooks who threaten us if we don't worship them and demand we turn over our destiny and daily lives..." p 27. Kawaida Theory, Karenga

Of Christianity and Judaism and their beliefs, Karenga says this about such "myths":

"...it is a simplistic and often erroneous answer to existential ignorance fear, powerlessness and alienation. An example is the Hebrew myth of the six-day creation and the tower of Babel, or Christian myths of resurrection, heaven and hell;"
Kawaida Theory, p 23., Karenga

"...it often denies and diminishes human worth, capacity, potential and achievement. In Christian and Jewish mythology, humans are born in sin, cursed with mythical ancestors who've sinned and brought the wrath of an angry God on every generation's head. ... If a mythical being has done, does and will do everything, what's our relevance and role in the world?"
Kawaida Theory. p 24., Karenga

Spookism, on the other hand, is intense emotional commitment to non-human-centered principles and practices which place humans at the mercy of invisible and omnipotent forces and thus, deny the right and capacity of humans to shape reality and their future according to their own needs and desires." Kwanzaa: Origin, Concepts, Practice,pp 44-45., Karenga

Apparently, observing one's heritage is OK by you, as long as that heritage is Eurocaucasian. St. Patrick's Day is fine to you, Cinco De Mayo isn't. Oktoberfest is fine to you, Kwanzaa isn't.

You're making false accusations again. And, besides, neither St. Patrick's Day nor Cinco de Mayo are intended to spread a bizarre brand of racist black supremacist marxism using a completely invented heritage.

That's because you are a bigot.

I guess so is black minister Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson (see his Kwanzaa info website), Ann Coulter, Tony Snow, and others who have similarly pointed out the detestable founder, origins, and black seperatist and marxist goals of Kwanzaa.

To point out some bulls#it, published by some fringe, nutjob, radical extremist group, hold it up as an example, and then paint anyone who actually observes the celebration with a paint brush dippedin the pages of their words is so you.

What fringe nutjob, radical extremist group are you talking about? Karenga's group? Again, he is the father of Kwanzaa, the recognized "keeper of the tradition" of Kwanzaa, the guy most invited to speak at large Kwanzaa events, the guy who is recognized by every intelligent person as THE authoritative source on Kwanzaa. Yet, because his views, statements, and even entire books about Kwanzaa disagree with your mistaken notion of what Kwanzaa is, you utterly reject the evidence.

You do it at all levels, about all people. All Muslims are (fill in the blank), all Mexicans are (fill in the blank), all immigrants are (fill in the blank).

There you go again with your broad brush and false accusations. I've never said any of the things you accuse me of. But that is your game plan, ignore the evidence and basis of arguments and respond only with ad hominem attacks and baseless slander.

You lie at every turn; out of one side of your mouth you compare Kwanzaa celebrants to Nazis, then you deny doing it in the very same post that you compare them to Nazis.

In your irrational ignorance you've failed to comprehend what I've written. Again, I've never compared Kwanzaa celebrants with Nazis. I've only compared a.)the bloody history of the African continent and the bloody history of communism/socialism/marxism over the past century and b.)rhetorically the official proclamation recognizing the racist holiday of Kwanzaa with similarly recognizing fictitious (or not, I don't know) racist holidays that would celebrate Nazi or KKK heritage. You know, Ann Coulter made the same precise point as have other writers on this subject. I'm sure that you similary believe that they too are racist bigots who are comparing the noble Kwanzaa celebrants with Nazis and Klansmen.

You hate everyone and anyone who isn't you...your race, your ethnicity, your religion.

Wrong again. Are you done with the ad hominem attacks or are you going to fill post after post with similar race-baiting, lies and distortions? I can hit reply just like you. But the difference is that I'm backing up my claims with solid information and you're just basing your attacks on anecdotal observation of a neighbor and a bunch of ad hominem slander.

I urge you to read Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson's interview and website as well as some of the other articles about Kwanzaa penned by such people as Ann Coulter, Tony Snow, and others. I know that you and I have a history here on Free Republic. Mostly with you attacking me in every border security thread with your similarly baseless ad hominems calling me a "racist" and a "bigot" and other such nonsense. Maybe you need to get the information about Kwanzaa from another source. I've provided quotes from Kwanzaa founder Ron Everett (aka. Maulana Karenga) but you seem to be ignoring them or rejecting them. Maybe, if you would tone down the name-calling, race-baiting, and ad hominem attacks and actually educate yourself a bit more on the topic, you would stop coming off as the fool that you are.

It's up to you. Read the information about Kwanzaa and discuss it rationally or continue to call me a racist and a bigot. I don't care. Again, I can keep hitting reply and refuting everything you say and your names don't hurt me a bit as they have no basis in reality.

208 posted on 01/01/2006 8:15:23 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
From Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson's BOND website's The “Merry Christmas!” Not “Happy Kwanzaa!” Campaign

Our Goal:

The “Merry Christmas!” Not “Happy Kwanzaa!” Campaign is designed to educate the American public about the phony “African-American” holiday known as Kwanzaa and to encourage the celebration of Christmas. We want the public to know that Kwanzaa was designed to further separate Blacks from identifying with America.

Kwanzaa is not even a legitimate African holiday. The founder of Kwanzaa, Ron Karenga (a.k.a. Maulana Karenga) himself admits he made up this Pagan holiday to give Blacks a false sense of culture and identity. The word "Kwanzaa" itself is fabricated. It is derived from the Swahili phrase "matunda ya Kwanzaa" which means “first fruits.”

For the past forty years Black Americans have been the victims of some of the most heinous scams ever run on a people—typically perpetrated on them by their so-called “Black leaders.” Kwanzaa is one of those scams and it's time all Americans became aware of it!

Raising awareness:

While Kwanzaa is being embraced as a legitimate holiday, there has been a concerted effort by left-wing organizations such as the ACLU to remove any religious symbols of Christmas from the public square. The ACLU has threatened to sue school districts over Christmas celebrations, including the singing of "Jingle Bells."

Corporations are so intimidated by the ACLU that they are bending over backwards trying to be "politically correct." Many are wiping out the mention of Christmas from their advertising and stores. article).

Kwanzaa has been pushed by radical Black activists and promoted by the mainstream media as a viable Black holiday, in many cases replacing Christmas. Despite the liberals efforts to paint Kwanzaa as a multicultural holiday, it was designed as a “Black only” event.

Here are two examples of how Kwanzaa has successfully infiltrated the American culture: The U.S. post office issues commemorative stamps dedicated to Kwanzaa.

And in December 2002, President George W. Bush issued a proclamation celebrating Kwanzaa.

Changing attitudes:

The “Merry Christmas!” Not “Happy Kwanzaa!” Campaign is an effort to change the attitudes of well meaning Americans about Kwanzaa, and to raise awareness about the separatist origins of Kwanzaa. We believe that if Americans—especially Black Americans--understood what Kwanzaa was really about, they would abandon it in droves. Kwanzaa is so widely accepted now that many Black churches celebrate Kwanzaa, and some have even gone so far as to replace Christmas with Kwanzaa!

What is Kwanzaa?

In 1966 Ron Karenga (or Maulana Karenga) created Kwanzaa as a holiday to give Blacks an alternative to the “White man's” celebration of Christmas and to allegedly give Blacks their “own” celebration to get in touch with their African roots.

The Kwanzaa celebration is made up of seven days to celebrate seven principles (the Nguzo Saba). The seventh day consists of a feast, patterned after the first-fruits celebrations of ancient Africa. There are activities such as pouring the libation for ancestors, lighting of candles, raising names of ancestors (also referred to by many as "ancestor worship"), and gift giving.

Kwanzaa consists of 7 principles, which are a blueprint for socialism, worship of false gods, and Afrocentrism. The principles are:

-Umoja (unity).

-Kujichaguila (self-determination—code, in this case for Afrocentrism).

-Ujima (collective work and responsibility—groupthink).

-Ujamma (cooperative economics—socialism).

-Nia (purpose).

-Kuumba (creativity).

-Imani (faith—worship of false gods or no gods at all).

Ron Karenga also created the Kwanzaa flag, which consists of red, black, and green. The Kwanzaa Information Center describes the color red as representing blood: “We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.”

The Kwanzaa information center also notes that this flag “has become a symbol of devotion for African people in America to establish an independent African nation on the North American continent.”

Those who celebrate Kwanzaa are encouraged to pledge their allegiance to this flag. The pledge itself is a statement of racial hatred and Black separatism:

“We pledge allegiance to the red, black, and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain; one nation of Black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle, for Black love, Black freedom, and Black self-determination. “

Kwanzaa isn't a celebration of the African harvest; it is a political statement for the establishment of a separate Black nation and racial hatred against Whites.

About the Founder Ron Karenga:

Ron Karenga (or Maulana Karenga) was the head of the United Slaves organization (USO), a Marxist “Black power” group that was a rival to the Black Panther party. USO members and Black Panther terrorists frequently got involved in violent confrontations and several people died as a result.

In 1970, Karenga and two of his followers were arrested and charged with conspiracy and assault in the torture of Deborah Jones and Gail Davis, two of his followers. Thinking that these women had tried to poison him, he made them disrobe at gunpoint and had them beaten. He forced a hot soldering iron into the mouth of one woman while the other had a toe squeezed in a vice. They were also forced to swallow detergent and another caustic liquid as part of their punishment. Karenga was convicted and served four years for the crime. (Source: SCAM: How the Black Leadership Exploits Black America)

A psychiatrist who examined Karenga noted that while in prison he had exhibited bizarre behavior, including talking to imaginary people, claiming he was attacked by dive bombers, and claiming that his attorney was in the next cell with him. He was judged to be a paranoid and schizophrenic.

Amazingly enough, this sadistic criminal ended up in the Black Studies Department at Cal State Long Beach in California, where he retired as chairman in 2002. Karenga had this cushy position for thirteen years, where he used the cover of academic freedom to indoctrinate his students into Marxism, Afrocentrism, and hatred of America. Karenga is currently a tenured professor at the university.

Karenga in His Own Words:

When once asked why he designed Kwanzaa to take place around Christmas, Karenga explained, “People think it's African but it's not. I came up with Kwanzaa because Black people wouldn't celebrate it if they knew it was American. Also, I put it around Christmas because I knew that's when a lot of Bloods would be partying.”

Karenga has explained that his creation of Kwanzaa was motivated, in part, by hostility toward both Christianity and Judaism. Writing in his 1980 book Kawaida Theory, he claimed that Western religion“denies and diminishes human worth, capacity, potential, and achievement. In Christian and Jewish mythology, humans are born in sin, and cursed with mythical ancestors who've sinned and brought the wrath of angry God on every generation's head.”

He clearly opposed belief in God and other “spooks who threaten us if we don't worship them and demand we turn over our destiny and daily lives.”

Unfortunately, Kwanzaa has been widely promoted in our culture, and Blacks and Whites alike should tell the truth about Kwanzaa—but paralyzing fear keeps most Whites from being willing to take the a stand against what is clearly a subversive Black nationalist movement designed to create racial separatism.

Kwanzaa vs. Christmas:

Christians should especially be careful about celebrating Kwanzaa because at heart, it is Pagan and racist. It's unconscionable that Black ministers would promote this holiday in their church. According to a website dedicated to educating Christians about the dangers of Kwanzaa (www.christocentric.com), Karenga's own writings expose the "anti-religion” leanings of Kwanzaa:

“…it [Kwanzaa] gives them a spiritual alternative to the commercialization of Christmas and the resultant move away from its original spiritual values and message."

If Karenga was so concerned that Christmas has moved away from its original spiritual values and message, wouldn't one assume that his interest would lie in reinvigorating the Christmas message? Instead, by creating a rival holiday, Karenga is attempting to pull Blacks further away from the powerful message of Christmas, and replacing it with his twisted, pseudo-African, pagan, racist “celebration.”

Christmas which literally means the mass of Christ, is a Christian holiday designed to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. According to the Gospels Jesus was born to Mary and her husband Joseph in Bethlehem, though the exact date of Jesus's birth is still debated. Christ's birth was to fulfill the prophecies of Judaism that a Messiah would come to redeem the world from sin.

While Christmas is supposed to be a celebration of the birth of Christ who shed his own blood to redeem mankind, Kwanzaa advocates the shedding of other people's blood in order to “regain our land.”

While Christmas is the celebration of the Savior, Kwanzaa is the celebration of the African Harvest and the call for a separate Black nation.

Eighty-five percent of Americans say they are Christians; yet, Christmas is under attack across the country by the ACLU and other leftist groups. Liberals are trying to ban Christmas trees and Christmas celebrations, including the singing of Christmas carols. At the same time, Ron Karenga is fervently seeking to replace Christmas for Black Americans with Kwanzaa.

It is time for Americans of all races to take a stand for “Merry Christmas!” Not “Happy Kwanzaa!”

209 posted on 01/01/2006 8:29:10 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson's article in FrontPage Magazine

Kwanzaa -- Racist Holiday from Hell
By Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 29, 2004

While public officials, schools, and the ACLU worked overtime this year to ban every vestige of Christmas from the public square, the recently invented holiday known as Kwanzaa is gaining in popularity among black Americans. These occurrences are not unrelated.

In an earlier time, blacks held a strong faith in God. But over the past 40 years, the black community has largely let God slip away. Sure the community has maintained the outer trappings of religion, but the solid morality at its core is nearly gone.

Enter a God-hating black racist named Ron Karenga. Born Ron Everett on a poultry farm in Maryland, Everett invented Kwanzaa in 1966, based on an African harvest festival (though it takes place during the Winter Solstice!), and celebrating the first Kwanzaa with his family and friends.

Calling himself “Maulana” (Swahili for “Master Teacher”), Karenga became a black nationalist at UCLA, and formed his group, the United Slaves (US) for the purpose of igniting a “cultural revolution” among American blacks. US members followed Karenga’s “Path of Blackness,” which is detailed in his Quotable Karenga: “The sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black.”

The United Slaves had violent confrontations with the Black Panthers on campus, and were actually considered more radical than the Panthers.

The biggest dispute between the United Slaves and the Panthers was for the leadership of the new African Studies Department at UCLA, with each group backing a different candidate. Panthers John Jerome Huggins and Alprentice “Bunchy” Carter verbally attacked Karenga at the meeting, which infuriated Karenga’s followers. After the meeting ended, two United Slaves members, George and Larry Stiner, reportedly confronted Huggins and Carter in a hallway, shooting and killing them.

Incidentally, on March 31, 1974, it was discovered that both Stiner brothers had escaped from the family visiting area in San Quentin State Prison. Larry Stiner turned himself into the FBI in Caracas, Venezuela, on December 13, 1994. He remains in custody at San Quentin. But George Stiner remains at large and his whereabouts remain unknown. He is currently on California’s 10 Most Wanted List.

The shooting at UCLA apparently caused Karenga to become extremely suspicious. On May 9, 1970, Karenga and two others tortured two women who Karenga believed had tried to poison him by placing “crystals” in his food and water.

The Los Angeles Times described the events: “Deborah Jones, who once was given the title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electric cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes at gunpoint. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis’ mouth and placed against Miss Davis’ face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vice. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said.”

Karenga was sentenced to one-to-ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment. At his trial, the question arose as to Karenga’s sanity. The psychiatrist’s report stated: “This man now represents a picture which can be considered both paranoid and schizophrenic with hallucinations and illusions, inappropriate affect, disorganization, and impaired contact with the environment.” The psychiatrist reportedly observed that Karenga talked to his blanket and imaginary persons, and he believed he’d been attacked by dive-bombers.

Eight years later, California State University Long Beach named Karenga the head of its Black Studies Department. By this time, Karenga had “repented” of his black nationalism and had become just a harmless garden variety Marxist. This must be our esteemed university system’s idea of repentance!

Karenga’s Kwanzaa celebration consists of seven “principles.” They are Umoja (unity), Kujichagulia (self-determination – code for “buy black”), Ujima (collective work and responsibility – groupthink), Ujamaa (cooperative economics – socialism), Nia (purpose) Kuumba (creativity), and Imani (faith – in man, not God).

To provide a symbol of his seven “principles,” Karenga used the menorah from Judaism with Kwanzaa’s colors (red, black, and green), and re-named it the "kinara."

Karenga also created a Kwanzaa flag that consists of black, green, and red. The Kwanzaa Information Center states the color red represents blood: “We lost our land through blood; and we cannot gain it except through blood. We must redeem our lives through the blood. Without the shedding of blood there can be no redemption of this race.” The Kwanzaa Information Center also notes that this flag “has become a symbol of devotion for African people in America to establish an independent African nation on the North American Continent.” (Emphasis added.)

When once asked why he designed Kwanzaa to take place around Christmas, Karenga explained, “People think it’s African, but it’s not. I came up with Kwanzaa because black people wouldn’t celebrate it if they knew it was American. Also, I put it around Christmas because I knew that’s when a lot of bloods would be partying.”

Karenga has explained that his creation of Kwanzaa was motivated in part by hostility toward both Christianity and Judaism. Writing in his 1980 book Kawaida Theory, he claimed that Western religion “denies and diminishes human worth, capacity, potential and achievement. In Christian and Jewish mythology, humans are born in sin, cursed with mythical ancestors who’ve sinned and brought the wrath of an angry God on every generation’s head.” He clearly opposed belief in God and other “spooks who threaten us if we don’t worship them and demand we turn over our destiny and daily lives.”

Through ignorance or racism, growing numbers of black Christians are either celebrating Kwanzaa or incorporating it into their Christmas celebrations. Now many preachers are incorporating Kwanzaa into their messages. This is a horrible mistake.

First of all, as we’ve seen, the whole holiday is made up! You won’t find its roots in Africa or anywhere else. Second, Kwanzaa’s “principles” are straight from Hell. Third, and most importantly, Christians who celebrate or incorporate Kwanzaa are moving their attention away from Christmas, the birth of our Savior, and the simple message of salvation: love for God through his Son. To add or subtract from that message is evil.

In recent years Kwanzaa has become increasingly popular and mainstream. President Bill Clinton commemorated Kwanzaa, stating that Kwanzaa’s seven principles “ring true not only for African-Americans, but also for all Americans…bring[ing] new purpose to our daily lives.” In 2002, President Bush, though a devout Christian, also commemorated Kwanzaa. The U.S. Postal Service issued a Kwanzaa stamp in 1997; the Smithsonian Institution sponsors an annual celebration; and greeting card companies churn out Kwanzaa cards for profit.

It is now clear that Kwanzaa is a phony, wicked holiday created by an ex-con who hates God, Christians, Jews, and blacks – yes blacks. Why else would he try to pull them away from Christianity and indoctrinate them in racialism and socialism? Blacks, particularly black Christians, need to stand up for Christmas and reject Kwanzaa. If they refuse, they will be helping to stamp out the true meaning of Christmas, and allowing evil to have its way in America.

This is a future we cannot allow.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson is the Founder and President of BOND (the Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny, www.bondinfo.org). He is also the author of the book “SCAM: How the Black Leadership Exploits Black America”. For more information, please call 1-800-411-BOND (2663), or e-mail bond@bondinfo.org.">

210 posted on 01/01/2006 8:33:45 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I found another one for you. I dare you to call Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson and LaShawn Barber "bigots" and "racists":

Why Black Christians Shouldn't Celebrate Kwanzaa

by La Shawn Barber

A New Visions Commentary paper published December 2003 by The National Center for Public Policy Research. Reprints permitted provided source is credited.

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines." - Hebrews 13:8-9

America - the greatest country in the world - was founded on the concept of religious freedom. In America, you can be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, atheist or pagan without fear of persecution. While government cannot endorse one religion over the other, individuals can.

For decades, the media have shoved "black leaders" in the faces of black Americans. Now they're doing the same with a pagan ritual called Kwanzaa, a so-called African-American holiday. A made-up, anti-Christian observance, Kwanzaa is celebrated by blacks who profess Christ. In our politically-correct climate, even President George W. Bush, a believer in Christ, feels obligated to praise this ritual.

Kwanzaa was invented in 1966 by Dr. Maulana "Ron" Karenga, a former black militant, a Marxist and a convicted felon. Claiming to have the unity of black people in mind, Karenga committed most of his crimes against blacks. Just five years after his invention of Kwanzaa, he was convicted of torturing two black women by stripping them naked, beating them with electrical cords, placing a hot iron into the mouth of one and mangling the toe of the other in a vice. During the ordeal, he forced them to drink detergent.

Observed from December 26 to January 1, this "alternative" to Christmas is based on a mixture of East African harvest rituals called first fruits - according to Karenga - and 1960s radicalism. This, by the way, is despite the fact that most ancestors of black Americans were from West Africa. Participants acknowledge their African roots and promote seven harmless-sounding principles: unity, self-determination, collective work and responsibility, cooperative economics, purpose, creativity and faith. While they sound commendable, the guiding principle behind Kwanzaa is based on race, not on faith in the one true living God and Savior - Jesus Christ.

Paganism is a "religion of nature." Those who practice it and other New Age fallacies see the divine in the created - humans, sun, moon, stars, trees - instead of the Creator. Christians who worship created beings are acting like pagans. It's that simple. Karenga and his followers worship the created - their African ancestors - in a "libation" ceremony, and believe these dead ancestors to be spiritual intercessors between humans and God. But Christians know (or should know) that only Christ is the intercessor between man and God.

Attention Christians: Kwanzaa is a made-up creed cobbled together by a man hostile to the very God you claim to worship! According to Karenga, Christianity is a myth. He does not believe in the God of the Bible. He says this about Christianity: "Belief in spooks who threaten us if we don't worship them and demand we turn over our destiny and daily lives must be categorized as spookism and condemned." He believes that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ - the whole rationale behind Christianity - is a myth.

Over the years, Karenga has altered his pagan intentions to attract more black Christians into the fold. He now claims that Kwanzaa is a time of giving "reverence to the Creator." Just what creator he refers to is unclear. Red flags should jump out at any Bible-believing Christian when someone reveres a "Creator" but denies the deity of Christ.

Christians must understand that Karenga intends Kwanzaa to be an alternative to Christmas so that blacks can celebrate themselves rather than the birth of Christ. Kwanzaa is not an innocuous celebration of black history. It attempts to spiritualize that history, replacing Christ-centered theology with pagan principles. For Christians, the only principles by which to live are found in God's word, The Holy Bible.

Pagans have argued that Christ was not born on December 25. Insignificant. While no one knows exactly when Christ was born, the fact remains that He was born. Christmas is a time for Christians to celebrate this joyous fact. Christ became a man to save men, not to lift up one race or culture in worship. As with any man-made religion, Kwanzaa is just another attempt to make gods of men. All Christians must be discerning when faced with these false doctrines.

The Fall of Man was the direct result of our determination to become gods. The pagan ritual of Kwanzaa is merely the old Lie wearing a new disguise.

###

(La Shawn Barber, a member of the national advisory council of the African-American leadership network Project 21, is a Washington, DC-based writer. Comments may be sent to barbersview@yahoo.com.)

211 posted on 01/01/2006 10:06:52 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Another black minister condemns Kwanzaa.

Another Viewpoint:

Guest Writer: Rev. Robert Ash

"And Jesus said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee...." (2 Cor 12:9)

Kwanzaa began in southern California in 1966, the creation of Ron McKinley Everett (aka Dr. Maulana Karenga). Originally intended to be a black nationalist substitute for Christmas, today Kwanzaa is promoted as being a cultural celebration for people of African descent (though it is still observed to a large degree by black people who are not Christians and who choose not to celebrate Christmas).

Kwanzaa is based on seven principles Everett felt were particularly important for the black community and which he felt represented African values. He called these "Nguzo Saba (the Seven Principles)" and chose Swahili words to name them: Umoja (Unity), Kujichagulia (Self-Determination), Ujima (Collective Work and Responsibility), Ujamaa (Cooperative Economics), Nia (Purpose), Kuumba (Creativity), and Imani (Faith).

Each day of the Kwanzaa's seven days (Dec. 26 - Jan 1) is dedicated to one of those principles, in the order given. The Kwanzaa ceremony Everett specifies requires 1) setting up a dedicated place in the home for the ceremony, 2) placing in the dedicated spot a specified set of artifacts and 3) going through a prescribed ritual ceremony each day.

Kwanzaa is being promoted widely as being a way for black people to reconnect with our African roots. Many Christians of African descent have questions about Kwanzaa, and some are exploring or even celebrating Kwanzaa. Some schools are promoting it to schoolchildren and even some churches here and there are incorporating Kwanzaa into worship services.

Many people who celebrate Kwanzaa do so to identify with African culture, since Kwanzaa uses Swahili words to name its principles, instructs its practitioners to focus on African heritage and ancestry. Others do so to focus on African-American culture.

For Christians, however, although the desire to identify with African culture is understandable, Kwanzaa is neither African nor traditional African-American. Moreover, there are key issues with Kwanzaa that are not compatible with scripture.

Firstly, the Bible is the best source for learning any kinds of principles and traditions, including African traditions. Africa, its people and cultures have a major presence in the scriptures, in early church history, and in the shaping of core Christian thought, theology and tradition.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6) -- for all people. Africans throughout the Motherland recognize this fact, too, and have been turning to Jesus Christ by the millions for the past century (less than 10% of Africans practice any more the ancient religions Kwanzaa focuses on, and that number is shrinking every day).

Secondly, the Bible and the black church are the foundation of black culture and tradition in North America. It is Christianity that brought us through slavery and Jim Crow segregation, provided the foundation for our near-superhuman endurance and monumental achievements. Kwanzaa ritual specifically excludes any mention or recognition of the Bible, Christianity or the African or African-American church (Everett says introducing them into the ceremonies violates his Kawaida principle named Kujichagulia (Self-Determination)).

Lastly and most importantly, Kwanzaa is in reality a non-Christian religious ceremony. It is expressly promoted as not being religious but its Seven Principles are taken from directly Everett's personal religious philosophy, which he calls Kawaida (based on Ma'at, an ancient Egyptian mystic religion that Everett, the son of a Baptist minister, left the church to adopt as a young man). Also, its key rituals and artifacts are modeled after non-Christian religious practices and ceremonies. Scripture does not allow the Christian to participate in such:

"Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise." (Deut 12:30)

Christians of African descent deeply appreciate a need to learn about and celebrate African history, tradition and ancestry. European Christians have always been able to do that, regularly celebrating St. Patrick's Day, Shakespeare Festivals, Oktoberfest and other European cultural festivals and activities. Cinco de Mayo is a joyous recent addition from Mexican tradition. Having African-based cultural events as well would be enriching.

However -- especially during Christmas season -- for Bible-believing Christians of African descent any such tradition should focus on and devote itself solely to Jesus Christ, His birth, His Bible and His church. Our exclusive focus on Jesus' birth should not end on December 25. It should continue throughout the holiday season. We should strive to make it the most glorious of all holidays throughout the holiday season, so glorious it attracts others to Christ out of their old ways just as the Gospel has done all over the world, including Africa.

During Christmas season we should place special focus on highlighting the African presence in the scriptures, which we as a people already know so precious little about and need to understand much, much better.

Before -- and after -- Christmas Day we should educate ourselves, our children and other Christians regarding the customs, traditions and history of indigenous African Christianity and its churches -- both ancient churches like the Coptic and Ethiopian Orthodox churches, and modern independent African churches, church movements and issues.

If we truly believe that Jesus' grace is sufficient for all of our needs (2 Cor 12:9) then let's treat His Birthday season that way. Let us extend Christmas season with an African focus instead of adopting something else. Black nativity scenes and African Christian celebrations and teaching events will go a lot further to connect Christians to Africa than any non-Christian ceremony created by a single man.

Let's treat the birth of Jesus as more special than ever before and focus on His Word like never before. There is more than enough richness, tradition, community, enough African and African-American community and values in the Bible, in African and African-American church and early church to keep us all busy for a lifetime -- with no exclusion of or conflict with Christianity or the holy scriptures.

Robert Ash is co-pastor and youth minister of Euphrates Missionary Baptist Church in Oakland, California.

Copyright © 2001-2005 by Robert Ash.

212 posted on 01/01/2006 10:23:34 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff

That's why you religious nutjobs need to be kept away from political office.

The first thing you, Rev. Jesse or any other holier than thou jackasses would do is eliminate anything that did not conform with your religious views...you would kill religious freedom if you could.


213 posted on 01/01/2006 10:36:30 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Spiff
"The “Merry Christmas!” Not “Happy Kwanzaa!” Campaign"

Tell Rev. Jesse to shove it.

I'll say Happy McMuffin Day if I want to.

214 posted on 01/01/2006 10:37:42 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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Comment #215 Removed by Moderator

To: Luis Gonzalez
The first thing you, Rev. Jesse or any other holier than thou jackasses would do is eliminate anything that did not conform with your religious views...you would kill religious freedom if you could.

So, since he's black, "racist" and "bigot" didn't work in your undending baseless ad hominem attacks. So, you pulled out "holier than thou jackass". He's been called worse by blacks who hate the truth like you do. He's had the same epithets hurled at him that we've seen hurled at Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas, and Condaleeza Rice. Your reactions to the truth being told about Kwanzaa are only a testament to the intentionally deceptive nature of the holiday Everett invented. He did it on purpose and you've fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

216 posted on 01/01/2006 10:49:11 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Tell Rev. Jesse to shove it. I'll say Happy McMuffin Day if I want to.

Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson and BOND have been friends of Free Republic for some time. He is a true conservative. He's spoken at Free Republic rallies and events. He's a regular on various news shows sitting on the conservative side of the debate. He's one of the leaders of Project 21: The National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives. Yet you would so quickly attack him for simply telling the truth about Kwanzaa.

Of course you can say "Happy McMuffin Day" and anyone can say "Happy Kwanzaa" or, more correctly, "Harambee!" However, they can't escape the truth about the holiday that they may be celebrating nor escape well deserved criticism for penning a official presidential proclamation lauding a divisive racist black nationalist and marxist holiday.

217 posted on 01/01/2006 11:00:23 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

By the way, was Post #215 yours? Tsk, tsk... You just can't stand the heat.


218 posted on 01/01/2006 11:01:24 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Perhaps you should educate yourself in the meaning of Kawanza, for it is neither a religious or a political Holiday,and in no way seeks to replace Christmas.

Perhaps you need to read your own tagline.

219 posted on 01/02/2006 7:05:48 AM PST by Junior_G
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To: Jigsaw John
Why not interpret it as his desire to acknowledge a Black holiday and thus avoid being called racist

Interesting...acknowledging a racially separatist holiday in an effort to NOT be called racist. These are strange and pathetic times.

220 posted on 01/02/2006 7:10:53 AM PST by Junior_G
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To: brwnsuga
I am black (as you may have noticed in my tagline) I have never celebrated Kwanzaa and don't know anyone who does, not one soul..... and I know tons of black people.

All the white liberals I know assume that black people are celebrating it in droves.

221 posted on 01/02/2006 7:22:45 AM PST by Junior_G
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To: Luis Gonzalez
By and in large, the observants of Kwanza (I know some)...

As a matter of fact, my Kwanza observant friends observe Christmas.

I've been to a small Kwanzaa celebration, hosted by good friends, who are much better Christians than you are, and I've seen these "Marxist" principles.

Those would be people like my neighbor and his family; a Christian family with better values than you, who observe Kwanzaa to give themselves a sense of heritage.

Wow, how convenient for your argument. Not only do you know a bunch of folks that celebrate Kwanzaa; but they also happen to be good Christians! Furthermore, they also celebrate Christmas while remaining Kwanzaa-observant, so Kwanzaa isn't really even a holiday, let alone a replacement for Christmas! Yeah, whatever.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that these friends of yours are a fabrication.

222 posted on 01/02/2006 7:57:27 AM PST by Junior_G
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To: presidio9

Can anyone say Political Pandering??


223 posted on 01/02/2006 7:59:19 AM PST by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: Junior_G
"Wow, how convenient for your argument. Not only do you know a bunch of folks that celebrate Kwanzaa."

Where did I say that I knew a "bunch" of folks that observed Kwanzaa?

You're lying again.

I merely said that I knew people who did...a man, his wife, and his kids...and they ARE good Christians.

Bet your money...put it on the table for me to take.

By the way, I'm not the only person in this forum who knows people who celebrate Kwanzaa.

On the other hand, I can bet MY last dollar that you don't personally know anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa, yet you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince everyone that you're some sort of Kwanzaa expert!

Let's talk about hypocrsy...shall we?

224 posted on 01/02/2006 1:21:51 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Spiff
"So, since he's black, "racist" and "bigot" didn't work in your undending baseless ad hominem attacks."

Are you kidding?

There are no bigger bigots in the world than religious bigots.

Rev. Jesse, like his counterpart the Reverend Jackson, spend their entire lives telling other black people how they should behave...he's as much a racist as Jackson.

225 posted on 01/02/2006 1:24:19 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: brwnsuga
"I am black (as you may have noticed in my tagline) I have never celebrated Kwanzaa and don't know anyone who does, not one soul..... and I know tons of black people. "

I know a family, and I think a couple of friends who come along because they are invited.

But I live in the most liberal county in Florida, so there are bound to be some oddities.

The point is that if some wish to wear silly shirts and celebrate some made-up heritage thing...let them!

This country was built on the notion of individual rights, and people have the right to wear silly shirts, light a messed up Menorah, and celebrate whatever the hell they want to celebrate!

226 posted on 01/02/2006 1:28:28 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Junior_G
"Interesting...acknowledging a racially separatist holiday in an effort to NOT be called racist."

So, it's OK for Italians to celebrate their heritage, and it's OK for the Irish to celebrate their heritage, and it's OK for Germans to celebrate their heritage...but it's NOT OK for black people to celebrate THEIR heritage because they are black.

Did I get it right?

227 posted on 01/02/2006 1:31:33 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Junior_G

Wow, I thought I was still talking to Spiff, you're a Spiff clone.

By the way...in my block alone there are Jewish people, Russian immigrants, Hispanics immigrants, Italian-Americans, blacks, Hindus, and a couple of regular, run of the mill white families.

We celebrate all sorts of things here.

No one has a problem with anyone else.


228 posted on 01/02/2006 1:34:49 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Spiff

No, 215 was not mine.

More lies and assumptions from you.


229 posted on 01/02/2006 1:36:29 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Spiff
Your criticism of the official presidential proclamation, and your opinion on the subject, together with $1.79 will get you a large coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

I have an idea...don't vote for Dubya in the coming Presidential election.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

230 posted on 01/02/2006 1:40:25 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Rev. Jesse, like his counterpart the Reverend Jackson, spend their entire lives telling other black people how they should behave...he's as much a racist as Jackson.

So, now Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, the founder of the National Repudiation Day Against Jesse Jackson is a racist!?

You're nuts. Do you know that? Beyond an anecdote about a family you know, a bunch of diversion and distortion, and reams of ad hominems, you've provided nothing in the way of any sort of basis for your statements. Yet, you continue polluting this thread with your inane rants and name-calling. Knock it off.

231 posted on 01/02/2006 2:00:10 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The point is that if some wish to wear silly shirts and celebrate some made-up heritage thing...let them! This country was built on the notion of individual rights, and people have the right to wear silly shirts, light a messed up Menorah, and celebrate whatever the hell they want to celebrate!

Again, no one is trying to stop anyone from celebrating the stupid marxist, racist thing. They're just pointing out that it was inappropriate, given the history of Kwanzaa and its founder and the stated goals of Kwanzaa, for the President, any President, to be giving it official recognition in the manner that Bush and Clinton have done.

232 posted on 01/02/2006 2:02:13 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff

LG is a worthless troll. Always has been. Nuff said.


233 posted on 01/02/2006 2:04:17 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Spiff

Knock it off?

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

All you have done is to opine as to why something shouldn't be done, against my argument that everyone involved, from the celebrants to the President, have both a God-given right and a Constitutional right to do what they did, so your opinion is nothing more than an opinion.

And you know what the say about opinions...right?

Whatever anyone else may think about either the celebration, or the acknowledgment is immaterial, because both the right to celebrate and the right to freely acknowledge the celebration are safeguarded by our Constitution.

It's called freedom, and freedom does not require your approval, Reverend Jesse's approval, or even Jesse Jackson's approval.


234 posted on 01/02/2006 2:35:40 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Sir Gawain

TOY BOY!!!!!!

Lost without your kitty cat?


235 posted on 01/02/2006 2:36:12 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Whatever anyone else may think about either the celebration, or the acknowledgment is immaterial, because both the right to celebrate and the right to freely acknowledge the celebration are safeguarded by our Constitution. It's called freedom, and freedom does not require your approval, Reverend Jesse's approval, or even Jesse Jackson's approval.

Again, and for the 10th time, I am not trying to ban Kwanzaa. I'm only pointing out the inappropriateness of President Clinton's and, more specifically, President Bush's official presidential proclamation lauding the illegitimate and divisive holiday invented as an oppositional alternative to the "spookism" of Christianity in order to separate blacks from Christianity, foment racial divisiveness in pursuit of a separate black nation, and promote revolutionary marxism. You can pretend all you want that Kwanzaa is benign and somehow disconnected from its founder and its underlying design. However, you have been unable beyond a SINGLE anecdote to provide any basis for your arguments. It's all attack, attack, attack. It isn't about me, it is about Kwanzaa, its founder, its design, its intent, its goals and the appropriateness of any President recognizing it any official way. You refuse to debate any of the actual content of the articles I've provided. You just want to call everyone racists, bigots, religious bigots, and holier than though jackasses. Whatever. Keep it up. With every post you further prove to FReepers and lurkers what a troll you really are.

236 posted on 01/02/2006 3:40:30 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Do you ever make sense, or is it only when you ring up WW to proofread your garbage?


237 posted on 01/02/2006 4:07:52 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Spiff
"However, you have been unable beyond a SINGLE anecdote to provide any basis for your arguments."

OK...then prove your argument.

Link me to the Kwanzaa related violence.

Let me see the Kwanzaa related burnings.

Show me the Kwanzaa organized racial purges.

Show me something.

238 posted on 01/02/2006 7:11:10 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Sir Gawain

I make sense to the non-common sense challenged.

Did you come here to say something related to the debate at hand, or just to be bitchy?


239 posted on 01/02/2006 7:12:21 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
OK...then prove your argument. Link me to the Kwanzaa related violence. Let me see the Kwanzaa related burnings. Show me the Kwanzaa organized racial purges.

But I've never made those arguments. You really need to work on your reading comprehension. It is impossible to hold a rational debate with someone who can't seem to hold a coherent thought or understand what anyone is saying.

240 posted on 01/02/2006 7:13:39 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff; Luis Gonzalez
"Again, and for the 10th time, I am not trying to ban Kwanzaa. I'm only pointing out the inappropriateness of President Clinton's and, more specifically, President Bush's official presidential proclamation lauding the illegitimate and divisive holiday invented as an oppositional alternative to the "spookism" of Christianity in order to separate blacks from Christianity, foment racial divisiveness in pursuit of a separate black nation, and promote revolutionary marxism."

Luis, this is a clear and and concise synopsis about the objections of a bogus "holiday" that is sanctioned by our so-called "leaders."

Your habit of cruising tangents irrelevant to main issues has not changed.

241 posted on 01/02/2006 7:26:50 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: F16Fighter

Did someone leave the back door open?


242 posted on 01/02/2006 8:01:43 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Aaaw, you know I missed you!


243 posted on 01/02/2006 8:03:22 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Spiff

So, in other words.

There are no illegal activities involving Kwanzaa, just your dislike for the origin of the celebration, and what you perceive it to be.

So, you condemn it based on your prejudiced view, and according to that, the President should not acknowledge it.

You just want to "save" other citizens from engaging in an activity that, while completely legal, you do not approve of, and you believe that it is "improper" for the President to acknowledge this non-illegal activity that other citizens participate in because it implies government approval, and because you do not agree with what you perceibve its principles to be, bolstering your argument by elevating the lowest, most radical point of view from its most radical proponents as a benchmark.

So, your argument is basically the same argument that the ACLU uses to uphold their whole "separation of Church and State" theory.

This is a nation that upholds individual freedoms above all. That freedom allows anyone to celebrate Kwanzaa however they wish to celebrate it. It allowed John Smith to create a whole new version of Christianity. It allows Christian Scientists to exist side by side with Mennonites.

This tolerance of one another's beliefs is what made this nation great...not intolerance.

When Bush acknowledges Kwanzaa, he acknowledges the greatness of this nation.

Not that members of the Christian Taliban could ever possibly understand that.


244 posted on 01/02/2006 8:14:45 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: F16Fighter
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, POOKIE! :O)

245 posted on 01/02/2006 8:17:08 PM PST by arasina (So there.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
When Bush acknowledges Kwanzaa, he acknowledges the greatness of this nation.

ROTFLMAO that's a keeper.

246 posted on 01/02/2006 8:26:12 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Luis Gonzalez
There are no illegal activities involving Kwanzaa, just your dislike for the origin of the celebration, and what you perceive it to be.

It is not what I "perceive" it to be. It is what it is based upon its origins, its sadistic gangleader racist and marxist founder, its underlying design, its intent, its goals. I didn't make it up - Ron Everett did and he's doing a good job keeping people like you and the family you know fooled.

So, you condemn it based on your prejudiced view, and according to that, the President should not acknowledge it.

It is not MY "prejudiced" view, it is the view of the founder, his writings, his books on the holiday, his statements about the holiday. He IS the authoritative source on what Kwanzaa is, not you. His books on Kwanzaa and its underlying pseudo-religious philosophy of Kawaida are the authoritative source on what Kwanzaa is and what its design is, not you. I quoted extensively from Everett (aka. Karenga), his writings, his books, his statements yet you pretend that I've made up what I've said about Kwanzaa. Can you read?

You just want to "save" other citizens from engaging in an activity that, while completely legal, you do not approve of, and you believe that it is "improper" for the President to acknowledge this non-illegal activity that other citizens participate in because it implies government approval, and because you do not agree with what you perceibve its principles to be, bolstering your argument by elevating the lowest, most radical point of view from its most radical proponents as a benchmark.

The father of Kwanzaa, Ron Everett (aka. Maulana Karenga) is not considered by anyone except for you to be the "most radical proponent" with the "lowest, most radical point of view". He is invited to speak as the most honored guest at many large Kwanzaa celebrations every year. He is considered by every intelligent person who is familiar with Kwanzaa to be THE most authoritative source on the Kwanzaa tradition. If Karenga is not, then who the heck do you think is? You keep pretending that I've scoured the Internet to find some unrelated radical group to point at to condemn Kwanzaa. You completely ignore the fact that Kwanzaa is completely the invention of Everett and it was invented to further his own racist black nationalist, black supremacist, marxist goals. Again, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and say that I don't believe that you would be on Free Republic defending for days a holiday invented by David Duke to further his own racist white nationalist, white supremacist, marxist goals. Would you? The what the heck are you doing defending Kwanzaa and Everett?

So, your argument is basically the same argument that the ACLU uses to uphold their whole "separation of Church and State" theory.

No. My argument is that I am opposed to marxism, racism, and the establishment of a separate racial nation within in the United States through the "shedding of blood". These are the goals and underlying design of Everett and his invented holiday. I've provided quote after quote demonstrating precisely that but you seem to be ignoring them in favor of your own uninformed perceptions.

This is a nation that upholds individual freedoms above all. That freedom allows anyone to celebrate Kwanzaa however they wish to celebrate it. It allowed John Smith to create a whole new version of Christianity. It allows Christian Scientists to exist side by side with Mennonites.

So, if David Duke founded his own holiday and wrapped it in pseudo religious nonsense and his stated intent was to promote marxism, oppose Christianity, and establish, through the "shedding of blood" a racially separate white nation you would be totally OK with that and you would defend it using this religious freedom argument? Again, I don't think so. When Bush acknowledges Kwanzaa, he acknowledges the greatness of this nation.

So, by Bush acknowedging an anti-Christian holiday invented by a violent and sadistic black supremacist gangleader for the purpose of spreading revolutionary marxism throughout the black community in order to establish "through the shedding of blood" a seperate black nation within the United States he "acknowledges the greatness of this nation"!!? You are sick in the head.

Not that members of the Christian Taliban could ever possibly understand that.

Now, who is the bigot here? Let's see. You've called Christian conservatives like Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson such names as "holier than thou jackasses" and the "Christian taliban". Your behavior in other threads such as the threads discussing intelligent design, border security, and the Miers nomination is equally bigoted towards those you disagree with and their strongly held conservative beliefs. Each of those threads is filled with your angry and willful ignorance of stated facts and your constant ad hominem attacks and slander against those with which you disagree. You can't seem to hold a rational debate on the facts. You have demonstrated an anger problem, a perception problem, and a severe reading comprehension problem. But this thread isn't about you or about me, it is about the inappropriateness of any President's official recognition of a racist holiday, your attempts to hijack the thread and get it yanked or relegated to the Smoky Backroom notwithstanding.

247 posted on 01/03/2006 6:10:09 AM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: arasina

Thank you, TTTT :-)


248 posted on 01/03/2006 6:39:00 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Spiff
"its underlying design, its intent, its goals"

http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/

249 posted on 01/03/2006 4:33:44 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/

Yes, I've quoted from the Official Kwanzaa Website in a number of my posts. If you were paying attention you would have seen that. The Official Kwanzaa Website is run by The Organization US which is the original gang that Everett founded and which he still runs, the gang that gunned down two rival gangmembers in the hallway of the UCLA student union building because the two heckled Everett at a meeting. I've pointed at several connections between the Official Kwanzaa Website, US, Karenga, and his writings, statements and books. So, thank you for further proving my points by providing one of Everett's (aka Karenga's) websites.

250 posted on 01/03/2006 4:42:24 PM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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