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Did Bush willingly commit a ZOT? Please say it ain't so

Posted on 12/20/2005 8:49:47 AM PST by always thr constitution

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To: always thr constitution

151 posted on 12/20/2005 2:22:21 PM PST by English Nationalist
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To: always thr constitution
                                 RIP TROLL
 


 
 

152 posted on 12/20/2005 2:34:15 PM PST by vigilante2 (Merry Christmas)
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To: linda_22003
Something passes the smell test if you'd approve of a President you DON'T like doing it. Does this?

OK, so the proposed situation is that Al Gore or John Kerry has decided to do wiretaps on people who are talking to Al-Qaeda operatives.

I would be absolutely fine with it.

First, I do believe quite firmly that this falls under prosecuting the war (see Soviet example below).

Second, I see no reason that the President should be considered guilty until proven innocent on this, and I would carry that over to President Gore or President Kerry if we were in that fix. Bush says that they went around the FISA court because of time issues. That is either the truth or a lie. Since the FISA court has been friendly to the administration and those spyed on are perfectly legitimate targets under FISA jurisdiction, I see no motivation other than the one stated to go around FISA. If you know of one, you can let me know.

Now that I've answered that, let me ask you a few questions:

1. Why are you holding the President guilty until proven innocent in this matter?

2. Where is your outrage against the punks who leaked this?

3. Where is your outrage against members of Congress who hae known about and helped approve this activity and are now acting shocked, shocked that this has been going on?

4. Why don't war powers cover this if the citizen is communicating with enemy personnel? We're not talking about somebody calling Tehran to talk to a mullah, we're talking about someone talking to an Al-Qaeda operative.

5. Here's a scenario and a question. It's the height of the Cold War, and the FBI suspects that ana American citizen living near Otis Air Force base in Massachusetts is a Soviet agent. They have evidence that he has been speaking to person in the Soviet Union whose expertise is the study of our air defense. The pattern of his calls suggests he may be advising them of activity during exercises at the base. Otis is responsible for guarding Air approaches to New York City, among other things. There is a major Soviet Naval Aviation exercise scheduled to begin in the next few hours and this guy has placed two or three calls to the Soviet analyst in just the last three hours, even though there is no activity going on at the base. The FBI agent looking at the case says, "I don't want to be alarmist, but this guy could be advising them of flight activity at the base so they can sneak some bombers through. This guy could be telling them the coast is clear, or he could be getting instructions for a sabotage mission of some sort."

Court approval will take to the end of the day at least. Do you tap the guy's phone or not?

153 posted on 12/20/2005 2:38:30 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("I want a hippopotamus for Christmas...only a hippopotamus will do!")
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To: always thr constitution

MERRY CHRISTMAS TROLL!


154 posted on 12/20/2005 2:56:14 PM PST by PilloryHillary (Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Superb!


155 posted on 12/20/2005 3:11:28 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: always thr constitution
FEAR THE KITTENS bud!!!
156 posted on 12/20/2005 6:46:32 PM PST by Darnright (Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.)
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To: always thr constitution
STUDIO Z

It's a Young Blog but give it time it's Notworthy.

Image hosted by TinyPic.com

157 posted on 12/20/2005 6:53:28 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (secus acutulus exspiro ab Acheron bipes actio absol ab Acheron supplico)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
Notworthy = Note worthy dammit
158 posted on 12/20/2005 6:56:33 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (secus acutulus exspiro ab Acheron bipes actio absol ab Acheron supplico)
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To: Paul_Denton

Hey i have that game is that Homeworld ?

Took me 2 weeks to beat it and it weren't easy


159 posted on 12/20/2005 6:59:53 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (secus acutulus exspiro ab Acheron bipes actio absol ab Acheron supplico)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

Cool :) Yes it is very hard. Especially the last missions. Mission 14 (second before last) is by far the hardest (where they try to crash an asteroid into your mothership). Homeworld 2 is even harder, although they made Karan S'jet (the woman who is known as 'Fleet Command') prettier lol.


160 posted on 12/20/2005 7:01:34 PM PST by Paul_Denton (The U.S. should adopt the policy of Oom Shmoom: Israeli policy where no one gives a sh*t about U.N.)
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To: Darksheare
'Idiot. Wonder how long until the troll defenders show up to say you're right? '

Sadly, someone already has. Check #15, and the sign up date.

161 posted on 12/21/2005 12:41:55 AM PST by IYellAtMyTV (The Left -- playing russian roulette with an automatic.)
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To: always thr constitution

162 posted on 12/21/2005 12:54:16 AM PST by BulletBobCo
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To: Valpal1
Try this to start. Good and informative.

http://www.slate.com/id/2060342/

163 posted on 12/21/2005 5:47:25 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Mr. Silverback

1. Why are you holding the President guilty until proven innocent in this matter?
-- I've just been reading the press like everyone else.

2. Where is your outrage against the punks who leaked this?
-- The NYT had meetings at the White House, and omitted items from the article that the White House. I think it's odd they didn't run it long ago. If you mean the "punks who leaked this" in the administration or Congress, I don't know who they are.

3. Where is your outrage against members of Congress who hae known about and helped approve this activity and are now acting shocked, shocked that this has been going on?
-- I think it's pretty spineless that one of them wrote a note saying "I don't like it" and left it at that; the ones who knew what was going on had plenty of opportunity to stand up and be counted, but politicians in general are not particularly good at courage, I've noticed.

4. Why don't war powers cover this if the citizen is communicating with enemy personnel? We're not talking about somebody calling Tehran to talk to a mullah, we're talking about someone talking to an Al-Qaeda operative.
-- I don't know. I had no hand in writing the legislation.

5. Here's a scenario and a question. It's the height of the Cold War, and the FBI suspects that ana American citizen living near Otis Air Force base in Massachusetts is a Soviet agent. They have evidence that he has been speaking to person in the Soviet Union whose expertise is the study of our air defense. The pattern of his calls suggests he may be advising them of activity during exercises at the base. Otis is responsible for guarding Air approaches to New York City, among other things. There is a major Soviet Naval Aviation exercise scheduled to begin in the next few hours and this guy has placed two or three calls to the Soviet analyst in just the last three hours, even though there is no activity going on at the base. The FBI agent looking at the case says, "I don't want to be alarmist, but this guy could be advising them of flight activity at the base so they can sneak some bombers through. This guy could be telling them the coast is clear, or he could be getting instructions for a sabotage mission of some sort."

Court approval will take to the end of the day at least. Do you tap the guy's phone or not?

--- Depends. What color tie is he wearing? Geez, talk about a convoluted example. I'm sure it happens and I don't know what I would do. I hope that in any public office I would follow the Constitution and the law, since that is what I would be sworn to do.


164 posted on 12/21/2005 5:47:59 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: Valpal1
try this site too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bill_of_Rights_is_not_a_suicide_pact

165 posted on 12/21/2005 5:48:33 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: IYellAtMyTV

Yeah, saw that after I'd posted.
*chuckle*


166 posted on 12/21/2005 7:38:15 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: linda_22003

"Depends. What color tie is he wearing? Geez, talk about a convoluted example. "


But that's real life.
And real life is messy.
Cutting to the chase, the courts don't act fast enough, nd valuable intel could slip through.
There was an attack planned on a mall in Ohio.
It was stopped because of.. drum roll... eavesdropping.


167 posted on 12/21/2005 7:40:15 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: WhiteGuy

I just love troll defenders.
This guy got the zot because he was a troll.
That determination is made by the Mods and by the boss.
If you have a problem with it, take it up with them.


168 posted on 12/21/2005 7:47:03 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: Darksheare
I just love troll defenders.
This guy got the zot because he was a troll.
That determination is made by the Mods and by the boss.
If you have a problem with it, take it up with them.


I defended no one.

I posted a response to someone who was, rightly or wrongly, commenting on the substance of the article, not just the perceived character of the thread originator.

The "troll" zot threads are viewed as some great team building exercise for a vocal group here who sees anyone who doesn't believe the way they do as a threat, IMHO.

I really don't care who decides to start the "zot" threads or who decides to end them. I have no problem with the mods or the boss or even you for that matter.

I see the zot threads for what they are, and for why they are started.
169 posted on 12/21/2005 8:02:18 AM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: always thr constitution

There have been no terrorists strikes in the US in 4 years. Next question?


170 posted on 12/21/2005 8:04:17 AM PST by Casloy
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To: WhiteGuy

I just love it when troll defenders try to play.

"I defended no one."

Really?
Post 44:
Please Linda, you're going to ruin a perfectly good "troll frenzy"

44 posted on 12/20/2005 12:01:46 PM EST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)




Try again.

"I posted a response to someone who was, rightly or wrongly, commenting on the substance of the article, not just the perceived character of the thread originator."

*snort*

The trolls have been trying to say that the President has done something Illegal and they have no idea what FISA says.
THAT was what the troll was saying.
And yes, you are defending teh troll again, in post 169.

And you're yelping.
Toss a stone into a pack of dogs, and the one that yelps is the one you hit.

"I really don't care who decides to start the "zot" threads or who decides to end them. I have no problem with the mods or the boss or even you for that matter."

You had a problem with this one, as per post 44.

"I see the zot threads for what they are, and for why they are started."
You just contradicted yourself.
You claimed above that you had no problem with them.
Funny, you whined in post 44 about it.


171 posted on 12/21/2005 8:11:22 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: Darksheare

Yawn..................


172 posted on 12/21/2005 8:15:26 AM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: Grampa Dave

Thank you sir!


173 posted on 12/21/2005 8:15:41 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("I want a hippopotamus for Christmas...only a hippopotamus will do!")
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To: WhiteGuy

Thought so.


174 posted on 12/21/2005 8:17:23 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

It is so laughable how the so called walk on water conservatives on Free Republic want a trial for every radical lib, yet they are immediately ready to electronically lynch GW whenever the MSM lies about him.

Excellent job on your reply.


175 posted on 12/21/2005 8:21:07 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: Darksheare
sorry bro, should have been there for your six...

rule number one...

Never leave your Leadman....

Rule number two..

Never leave your Wingman...

176 posted on 12/21/2005 8:54:40 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Don't worry about it.
He tried to spar and lost.
Even better when they signal defeat.
;-)

But.. next time, blanketing fire and bounding overwatch.


177 posted on 12/21/2005 8:56:01 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: Darksheare

When you are hit in the face with truth, it penetrates farther and hotter than any HEAT.


178 posted on 12/21/2005 8:59:05 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

True.
Been seeing alot of trolls lately on the FISA wiretapping issue.
Seems they forgot about the mall attack plot in Ohio.
It was stopped due to "wiretapping."

And then there's the genius types defending the trolls.
(Saw one in the thread by Dances with Fascists at post 232.)

It has been... interesting.
*chuckle*


179 posted on 12/21/2005 9:01:35 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: Darksheare
I was wondering why there were many Troll defenders...

New kind of "sleeper"?

180 posted on 12/21/2005 9:02:45 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Well, teh one came back here as a multiple retread ebfore getting his original handle back.
But he'd posted at an anti-FReeper site for awhile, he still posts at some other site but I'm not sure which, but they tend to have a grudge against VK's and the mods.
Like Tobor for example.

Tobor got himself zotted under his original handle, and came back as Tobor to post a whining vanity about "old timers vs newbies" and screamed about the VK's and 'zotfests'.

He finally got the zot, but I wasn't around to see it as I was elsewhere.

But there are anti-FReeper and anti-Vk's as well.
The troll defenders have one goal, to try and get the VK's and other troll hunting types removed form FR.
Their typical line is "We should debate them on the issues!"
(See Burfreds thread about "FR isn't Free" for a primer in the typical arguing of troll defenders. The words are the same as Burfred was whining about trolls getting the zot.)


181 posted on 12/21/2005 9:08:44 AM PST by Darksheare ("Keep it just between us..." she said, and then she faded into the mist.)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Two points,the first being the internet is not the end all, be all of research, especially if you limit yourself to the first page of results, which after all, are ordered by hit count and not by accuracy. Try going back 30-40 pages and see what you get.

Second, never use wikipedia as a source. It is not a valid source of information and has a well known commie-pinko pedophile slant.


182 posted on 12/21/2005 9:12:21 AM PST by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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To: Darksheare
I remember Tobor...

He had one valid point, and it was one you did agree with. If a newbie posts and is a genuine newbie.. then we should let off a bit. I agree too. But we, you and I, the VK and the RKBA hit those that are blatant trolls. Not those that are learning about debate or just new to FR.

I welcome debate as you do as long as it is intelligent exchange of ideas and not name calling and contradictions. :)

Be ever vigilant, for we are being watched and hunted....

183 posted on 12/21/2005 9:17:13 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Yes, that was the only valid point he ever brought up on that one.
And that was correct, valid newbies do need some slack.

But teh guys taht have been getting the zot lately have not been valid newbies, and the troll defenders don't seem to understand that at all.
:-/

Willdo.
"Until next troll!"


184 posted on 12/21/2005 9:21:55 AM PST by Darksheare (Tagline commercials, the latest in aggressive advertising! Call 1-999-tag-advt for info for your ad!)
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To: Valpal1
Well, I do agree that the Internet isn't the end all... However there is a majority of the resources agree with me. AS far as Wikipedia, I would have to agree with you on politics, but this is a generic topic and it gave a repudible answer, close to what all the other resources were saying.

I highly doubt Abraham Lincoln would have said that quote. He didn't have any reguard to the Constitution of the United States.

185 posted on 12/21/2005 9:22:04 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Darksheare

I see the typo demons got you again....


186 posted on 12/21/2005 9:22:52 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Darksheare

Only the Valid trolls are being Zotted, in my opinion :)


187 posted on 12/21/2005 9:26:03 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Yuppers.
The typo infection is strong.

And I get the feeling that the trolls are getting caught as well.


188 posted on 12/21/2005 9:28:57 AM PST by Darksheare (Tagline commercials, the latest in aggressive advertising! Call 1-999-tag-advt for info for your ad!)
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To: Zavien Doombringer

Here's a hint, when Jackson was researching to write his opinion, one obvious area of research would have been Lincoln's suspension of habeous corpus and other acts and the courts reaction.

And relying on the "majority of resources" is not wise when that "majority" is in fact the hacks of lamestream media who all get their information from each other or the internet. Remember, the internet is mostly a repository of popular opinion that has been published in the last 10-15 years and very little original research. It does not yet have the entirety of human knowledge stored.

I think Lincoln was very likely to have quipped something like the statement.


189 posted on 12/21/2005 10:10:22 AM PST by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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To: Valpal1
Either way...

Very strong point.

As much as Davvy Crockets famous word,"A government big enough to give you everything, is big enough to take it away"...

190 posted on 12/21/2005 10:24:13 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Grampa Dave
It is so laughable how the so called walk on water conservatives on Free Republic want a trial for every radical lib, yet they are immediately ready to electronically lynch GW whenever the MSM lies about him. Excellent job on your reply.

I agree, and thank you for the compliment. I'm just getting warmed up...

191 posted on 12/21/2005 11:30:41 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("I want a hippopotamus for Christmas...only a hippopotamus will do!")
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To: Mr. Silverback

Please Ping me when you get warmed up.


192 posted on 12/21/2005 1:28:30 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Link to Great TV ad re rat traitors and their words re Iraq: http://www.gop.com/Media/120905.wmv)
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To: Darksheare

I love abusing both trolls and troll defenders hehe.


193 posted on 12/21/2005 5:38:54 PM PST by Paul_Denton (The U.S. should adopt the policy of Oom Shmoom: Israeli policy where no one gives a sh*t about U.N.)
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To: always thr constitution

Always thr constitution, as thr man said; thr troll is thr stupid one. Thr FReeper speaks...


194 posted on 12/22/2005 7:54:08 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: BulletBobCo

BulletBob --

"How to tell You've Been Really Bad"

I sent this one to my father, whose only vice is an "interesting" sense of humor, LOL!


195 posted on 12/24/2005 3:28:42 PM PST by Spotsy (Thank you to all who serve and sacrifice)
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To: always thr constitution
I do see a problem with the Bush administration spying on some international phone calls.

They should be spying on ALL phone calls from anyone that had even visited a middle eastern country since the TWA hijacking. ALL. Period.

Just imagine what the government would do if a person called or cabled Japan from the US after December 7th.

What do these libs have to hide?
196 posted on 12/24/2005 3:43:32 PM PST by Sunnyflorida
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