You'll be amazed what you can hide under three feet of snow... :-)
Posted on 11/23/2005 10:55:41 AM PST by detsaoT
CARY, N.C. - The joke around here is that this town's name is really an acronym for ''Containment Area for Relocated Yankees.'' As far as Vernon Yates is concerned, they haven't been contained well enough.
Nearly surrounded by pricey subdivisions, the cinderblock Yates Grocery and Farm Supply sells neither anymore. As if things weren't bad enough, style maven Martha Stewart has chosen this Raleigh suburb to build a signature neighborhood of houses designed after her homes in Maine and New York.
Holding court near a potbellied stove, the 69-year-old man in the suspenders and NASCAR shirt laments that his old customers have been replaced by fast-talking, SUV-driving Northerners who don't seem to be able to read a STOP sign.
''It's all gone,'' Yates, pausing for another spit of tobacco juice, says of the Southern town of his youth. ''Everything is completely different from what it used to be.''
Things are indeed changing in the South. And so is the notion of what it means to be ''Southern.''
In this most maligned and mused-upon of American regions, the term conjures a variety of images. Magnolias, front porch swings and sweet tea for some; football, stock cars and fried chicken for others; lynchings, burning crosses and civil rights marches for still others.
We've had the Solid South, the Old South and the New South.
But are we heading toward a ''No South''?
As the South's population booms -- projected to comprise 40 percent of the nation's population by 2030 -- a new Associated Press-Ipsos poll finds that the percentage of people in the region identifying themselves as ''Southerners'' is slowly shrinking.
The AP-Ipsos poll conducted this past month found 63 percent of people living in the region identified themselves as Southerners. That mirrors a trend from a University of North Carolina analysis of polling data that found a 7 percent decline on the same Southern identity question between 1991 to 2001, to 70 percent.
''Does it mean that being a Southerner no longer has any meaning? I don't think it does,'' says Larry Griffin, a sociologist at North Carolina who analyzed the AP polling data. ''It just has a very different kind of meaning.''
Are the qualities that have long been ascribed to the South really true anymore? Are Southerners really more hospitable than other Americans? Does family really count for more down South? Are depth of faith, loyalty to home, reverence for history and sense of place identifiably ''Southern'' traits?
The South has become ''sort of like a lifestyle, rather than an identity anymore,'' James Cobb, author of the newly published ''Away Down South: A History of Southern Identity,'' would argue. ''The things now we would base Southern distinctiveness on are so ethereal.''
And sometimes contradictory: In a region that once tried to break away from the Union, people are generally considered more patriotic than the rest of Americans; in a place where blacks were oppressed for hundreds of years, poll after poll shows them identifying themselves as ''Southern'' even more often than whites do.
''The South is a region of irony,'' says Bill Ferris, co-editor of the Encyclopedia of Southern Culture. ''It's both un-American and deeply American.''
New York City-born Bob Petrolino has lived in Raleigh for 30 years and has heard his share of snide remarks about ''damned Yankees.'' When the local paper recently ran a landfill story with the headline ''N.C. set to become Yankee dump,'' he fired off an angry letter wondering when we'd finally get beyond the Civil War references.
''I find a lot of people who are still fighting that war,'' the 71-year-old IBM retiree told the AP. ''They still have that chip on their shoulder, like, 'Hey, we would have been better off if you'd never come here.'"
About a third of the Southern residents responding to the AP poll say they were born outside the region. But of those born in and living in the South, only 77 percent choose to call themselves Southern.
William Andrew Johnson was born in Savannah, Ga., and lives just outside Charleston, S.C. -- where the first shot of the Civil War was fired. But he rejects the label ''Southerner.''
Why? Because of the political baggage he associates with the term.
''I'm not a red-stater at all,'' says the 61-year-old retired investment banker from Mount Pleasant, whose family has been in the region since the 1800s. ''You know how a Southerner defines 'patriotic'? He supports any and every war.''
So how do you measure patriotism?
Studies have found that people in the region enlist in the military out of proportion to their percentage of the overall population. But that could be as much a factor of economics or the predominance of military installations in the region as love of country.
And what about the so-called Bible Belt? Are Southerners really more religious than other Americans?
Church attendance figures compiled by David Olson, director of the American Church Research Project, show Southerners are much more likely than the average American to go to church -- though, as a region, their Midwestern brethren have a slight edge. The Arbitron broadcast rating service finds that Southern dwellers are 48 percent more likely than people in the rest of the country to listen to religious radio programming.
And what of the closeness of extended families associated with the South?
Six of the states in the top 10 for highest divorce rates are in the South. And the Census Bureau recently reported that the South is home to 7 of the top 10 states with the highest percentages of out-of-wedlock births. (The Census counts Delaware and Maryland as Southern states.)
According to the AP poll, geographic Southerners appear to have a higher opinion of themselves than do others.
Of those asked whether Southerners were more courteous than other Americans, 55 percent of those living in the region said yes, while only 35 percent of non-Southerners felt that way. And non-Southerners have a much dimmer view of race relations in the region.
From the earliest days of the Union, social scientists say, the South emerged as a kind of ''internal other.''
''It became kind of like a negative subreference ... where any American problem or the worst American problems could always be identified with the South,'' says Cobb, a historian at the University of Georgia. This was the South of Jim Crow laws, bottom-of-the-list school test scores, the backwoods of ''Deliverance.''
Sometime in the 1970s, the region morphed into what author Fred Hobson called the ''suddenly virtuous'' South. Today, many of our notions about the South seem based on some long-gone reality. This is the South of country music lyrics, carefree Sunbelt retirement, schoolkids who answer ''yes, ma'am.''
The South is now the nation's most industrialized region; though traditional textile employment and the like has largely moved offshore, the region has attracted high-profile employers such as automakers. About three quarters of Southerners now live in metropolitan areas.
But if you're looking for the ''real South,'' retired Dallas salesman Patrick Phillips says don't bother going to Charlotte, N.C., Birmingham, Ala., or even Atlanta, the presumptive capital of the New South. It's not there.
''I think the true Southerner is pretty much lost in the metropolitan area in today's time,'' says the 56-year-old Tulsa, Okla., native, who identifies himself as a Southerner. ''I think you have to get off in the back roads of the Southern states to really get into it again.''
The AP found that people who live in rural areas are much more likely than their urban and suburban counterparts to consider themselves Southern.
For novelist Cassandra King, who grew up on a southern Alabama peanut farm, the South will always be ''the agrarian South of the hardworking, reddened-neck farm family.''
''Southern identity,'' she says, ''comes from the red clay or white sand or black dirt which produces our peanuts and corn and okra and field peas and sweet potatoes.''
The region is still set apart by its poverty, and some old stereotypes hold water. Eight of the top 10 states with the highest percentages of mobile homes are in the South, as are nine of the states with the highest rates of adult toothlessness.
Other stereotypes are way off.
States with the highest percentage of households without indoor plumbing? Six of the top 10 are in the West and Northeast. And while you can marry your first cousin in Massachusetts, New York and Rhode Island, it's legally taboo in Kentucky, Mississippi and West Virginia.
John Shelton Reed, author of numerous books on the region, says the South has stopped being ''the regional odd man out'' in some important ways. In terms of income, literacy and the racial attitudes of whites, ''the differences between Southerners and other Americans have now become so small, by historical standards, that they hardly matter at all.''
And, Reed says, some ''ancient regional differences'' have reversed themselves. The region has gone from having a higher birthrate than the national norm to a lower one, from net out-migration of blacks to net in-migration.
In many ways, he says, the rest of the country is starting to look more like our image of the South -- particularly in its tastes in music, sports and food.
''We have exported country music, NASCAR, and the Southern Baptist Convention so successfully,'' he says, ''that they may not be 'Southern' institutions much longer.''
Rather than being pleased with this so-called ''Southernization'' of the country, some are more concerned about what they see as the blandification of the South.
Graham Banks, chairman of the pro-secession Southern Party of South Carolina, says there's something wrong when the Country Music Awards are being presented in New York and Southern stock-car tracks lose race dates in the name NASCAR expansion.
''Every time there's something good that people like, it becomes 'American,'" says the 38-year-old investor and writer from Bamberg, S.C. ''They co-opt it and then call it something else and then begin to slowly morph it into something that isn't Southern, and then it dies.''
Oddly, when asked by the AP whether the South is a distinct region with its own culture, only 58 percent of native Southerners considered the region significantly different from the rest of the United States, compared to 66 percent of people born elsewhere.
We're now a couple generations removed from the Voting Rights Act, and the last Confederate widow has finally passed on. But for Ferris, the South will always be more than just a convenient grouping of states for statistical analysis -- because history matters.
''I think the region is, always has been and always will be different -- distinctly different -- from the rest of the nation,'' he says. ''We have a long memory here. ... The memory of a war lost, and occupation and Jim Crow and civil rights. These are powerful memories that shape our everyday lives.''
The AP-Ipsos poll was conducted by telephone Oct. 21-26 among 658 adults in the South and 1,345 in other parts of the country. Sampling error was plus or minus 4 points for people in the South, 3 points for people elsewhere.
EDITOR'S NOTE -- Allen G. Breed is the AP's Southeast regional writer, based in Raleigh, N.C. AP researcher Monika Mathur in New York analyzed data for this report.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..........
Transplanters is why Florida was in play for the 'rats in 2000.
One observation I noted while driving around southern PA a few years ago: Rural Yankees are a whole lot neater than rural southerners.
You'll be amazed what you can hide under three feet of snow... :-)
On one hand, we're complaining that the illegals are bringing down the economy with their thievery, medical burdens, & lower wages. And on the other, we're complaining that folks who have money are ruining the laid back lifestyle.
ROFL
Certainly. I live in one. A wonderful town in Alabama, halfway between Montgomery and Auburn.
You can almost hear the Associated Press cheer in this article as they support the cultural genocide of the South.
Cary is one of the top-ten safest cities in America. At least since the yankees moved in, they have behaved themselves.
Carpetbaggers ruined the south once.. .no reason to expect they won't do it again.
Dixie ping!
I'm finding some of the statistics used in this article a bit hard to believe. For instance: Most of our friends have 3-4 children but those we know outside the South only have 1-2. So the South having a lower birth rate seems odd.(Or maybe we just have really horny friends.)
I wouldn't live in Cary if you paid for it. Durham is a true North Carolina town (9th street excepted). But Cary is planned bland. And don't even get me started on Chapel Hill. Now, yankees aren't all bad. Besides, somebody's gotta live up north, so it might as well be yankees.
Yet in 2004, when there were MORE Transplanters, the state was more Republican.
Me thinks you need to check your premises.
The truth is that since WWII and the invention of air conditioning, the south has has a whole influx of different people moving down there. These old stereotypes have to go.
I think I should ping this to the NC list. What do ya think?
An interesting point would be that the people who are moving here are doing so because they are comfortable with the demographics.
In other words, the "good" (conservative) yankees are moving down here. It HAS to be, because TN has had a HUGE influx of folks from up north and out west, and we're still just as much a red state as ever, if not more so.
Pehaps the US is becoming balkanized, with the southeast and west being red, the coasts being blue, and the midwest a little of both.
NC ping
Love the C.A.R.Y. acromyn!
Being Southern means being able to accept people with all their eccentricities.
It also means educating the Northerners who come here and are unbelieveably racist, homogenized, and so materialistic my head spins.
(Not all, btw, but a goodly bunch as we would say.)
Too hurried for proper paragraphs, for sure!
Maybe because the weather is better in the south you can leave your furniture and applicances outside without the elements getting to them. Just my theory.
I think RDU/RTP area of NC is being over run by refugees fleeing Maryland.
This is especially true of those fleeing the area near DC.
Maryland pollution can't be good.
Trying to educate a Yankee gone South on things Southern is enough to make your head spin.
We aren't refighting the war, we are remembering Reconstruction.
There were lots of people in the South who didn't believe in slavery or secession, but by the end of Reconstruction there wasn't a soul who didn't hate yankees.
When will we 'get over it'?
When will Jews get over the holocaust?
Yes, I know more of them got killed, but it wasn't the dying that matters it was the attempt to destroy their culture, and our culture.
SO9
"CARY, N.C. - The joke around here is that this town's name is really an acronym for ''Containment Area for Relocated Yankees.'' As far as Vernon Yates is concerned, they haven't been contained well enough.Nearly surrounded by pricey subdivisions, the cinderblock Yates Grocery and Farm Supply sells neither anymore. As if things weren't bad enough, style maven Martha Stewart has chosen this Raleigh suburb to build a signature neighborhood of houses designed after her homes in Maine and New York."
NC? try Florida...too many yankees for me so i sold out and moved back to Texas. If you want to live in NY, I say move to FL, it's warmer.
Ha ha, true! I'm a transplanted "Masshole" in Georgia. If only New Hampshire weren't so cold, I'd probably be there instead! I really love Georgia, though.
Oh, indeed. But no one is fleeing the South to live in the enlightened cesspools the wonderful Yankees have created. No one wants to.
No. They're coming here. And they - as always - feel somehow entitled to shoot their mouths off about everything.
Atlanta? Ha! Atlanta isn't part of the South. It's an island bordered by the I-285 ocean and as far as I'm concerned a hostile foreign nation (particularly in January, February and March when the legislature is in session).
I don't really care what poll numbers say or which southern-born queers reject being "Southern."
I will forever believe it was the mercy of the Lord that put me in the South at my birth. My children are being raised to take pride in their Southern heritage and to answer "yes ma'am" or "no ma'am" and to say "y'all."
And the Associated Press can jump up my a$$. They wouldn't no Southern if we hog-tied them and drug them down a red clay road behind a pickup truck.
The "Real South" is composed of those who grew up plowing a mule, and there aren't many of us left. I was looking at a report on housing costs across the country earlier today and each city listed had the median income as well as median housing price for the area listed. According to the report the median income for Charlotte is now considerably higher than the median for New York City! Charlotte is no longer anything remotely resembling a southern town.
They aren't neater, they just have less stuff.
So9
And, I live in one on the coast near Mobile.
By all means!
"Trying to educate a Yankee gone South on things Southern is enough to make your head spin."
Yup. Last one I ran into in Savannah: "Of course you can feed the alligators."
I figure that we can manage the influx if we take 'em one at a time!
Cary is almost all new. There are no slums, no lower class, almost no lower middle class.
It's safe here because there is almost nothing but wussified upper middle class yankees in town.
So9
Sherman taught us Southerners how to live like that when he marched through.
I can always tell a Davis' home when I drive by it - it HAS to have one part of the parcel stockpiled with junk.
Try living here where everything you grew up loving has been changed in the name of "progress" by some yankee transplant who moved here to "get away" from the north, yet wants to make his/her new place of residence as much like the north as possible.
And before you start spouting off about "race" and "air conditioning", forget it. Yes, race relation improvement was needed here and I love my air conditioning, but I could do without all the other crap. I liked my corner hardware store where old men sit would around a wood stove, share stories, spit tobacco juice in a spitoon and no one cared just fine. Now we have Habib running a 7-11 from behind bulletproof glass, 24 hours a day and running off the old guy who wants to sit around and chew the fat. He sells marked up tobacco products behind the bulletproof glass because it is treated worse than crack, which he probably also sells out the back door. It used to be you could drive around and enjoy a peaceful afternoon, but now you get honked at by some arrogant a-hole who rides up your rear-end if you aren't doing mach-2 on a two lane road.
I can't find a single acre of land to lease for hunting because some damn yankee transplant retired down here and high-balled the locals. They lease thousands of acres of land for 2-3 times what we can pay and rarely hunt on even 1/4 of it. Most never set foot on any of it, but will buy it up every year.
Mom & Pop's country restaurant has been replaced by Chili's and Olive Garden or some fu-fu place that serves a spinach leaf and dollup of mustard and calls it "gourmet".
Seriously, I think the biggest problem we true southerners (and, yes, I was born and raised here) have is those who move here for the "ambiance" and then do everything they can to change it. If you want to live here, live here under OUR rules, don't start trying to change it because it isn't like NY or Baahston.
That's been my observation as well. A lot of the folks I know (mainly former military) who have headed South did so to get away from all things liberal.
Too late; I've gone and done it at #26.
Nothing like a good South vs. North thread for Thanksgiving!
Hope you and yours have a great one.
Having grown up in the South, then lived in the Midwest, and now the Northeast, I'd have to say, "YES".
We're right behind you.....except we have friends here. *sniff* What to do, what to do? I think after our daughter graduates in 3 years, we'll move back to Texas, but I hate to wait that long. *sigh*
And in the rural west, there's the scourge of transplanted Californians.
*snort* They also haven't driven through deepest Central Massachusetts. Looks just like rural Mississippi to me, except everybody's white.
Exactly! Conservative 'yankees' are moving south in search of like-minded people, because living with liberals here in New England make us want to puke. I moved to east Tennessee five years ago, and let me tell you...it was great to come out on the WINNING TEAM for once on the first Tuesday of November...that NEVER happened in New England. On the down side...we came back to New England last year so "one of us" could be closer to family. Bad mistake. We are heading BACK to east Tennessee next spring...even SHE can't wait! :-)
"William Andrew Johnson was born in Savannah, Ga., and lives just outside Charleston, S.C. -- where the first shot of the Civil War was fired. But he rejects the label ''Southerner.''"
What does he consider himself to be then, a dumbass?
The shoe is now on the other foot.
Another is to tell Yankees that possums are Southern rats. Yeah, the warmer climate and slow, easy living of the South allows them to get so big....;-)
Hello? Mike Helton? France family? Are you listening?!
When in reality it means Concentrated Away from Redneck Yokels.
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