Catholic University Threatening to Expel Student for Calling Homosexual Acts 'Subhuman'

LifeSite ^ | October 28, 2005

[NYer]

Catholic University Threatening to Expel Student for Calling Homosexual Acts 'Subhuman'

PITTSBURGH, PA, October 28, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Duquesne University, which describes itself as "one of the top ten Catholic universities in the nation," has punished a 19-year-old sophomore for statements made on a website which had no connection to the school.  While the mainstream media has frequently repeated that political science and pre-law student Ryan Miner is being sanctioned for calling gays and lesbians 'subhuman', Miner told LifeSiteNews.com in an interview he used the word 'subhuman' to describe homosexual acts, not homosexuals themselves.

The University was considering a request to begin a Gay-Straight Alliance club on campus.  Such clubs, known for promoting the acceptability of homosexual acts, are not proper in a Catholic university according to Miner.  Writing in the university paper yesterday, Miner said, "The goal of this proposed immoral alliance is an endorsement of a homosexual lifestyle, which is undeniably precarious  . . . As a practicing Catholic and a staunch supporter of the Catholic Church, I find it completely appalling that Duquesne University would even consider the idea of this uncanny and so-called 'alliance.'"

Miner formed a group of students to counter the proposed club via a national website for students on which he posted comments.  After reading the comments on the site, four students found them offensive and brought them to the attention of the university judicial affairs department.

After Miner was sent a letter notifying him of the complaints a hearing was held by three faculty members and two student representatives.  Miner was refused the names of the university faculty judging him.

Miner was found guilty of offending the university's anti-discrimination policy which prohibits discrimination based on "sexual orientation" among other things.  Miner told LifeSiteNews.com that he explained at the hearing that his use of the word 'subhuman' was meant towards the homosexual act and not homosexual persons.  Moreover, Miner read the Catholic Catechism in his defence as the Catechism refers to homosexual acts as, "acts as acts of grave depravity", "intrinsically disordered" and  "contrary to the natural law."  His was nonetheless found guilty of the charges.

In conversation with LifeSiteNews.com, Miner said that his use of 'subhuman' to describe homosexual acts "certainly wasn't the most prudent of words", but what he meant to say was the gist of the teaching in the Catechism.

As punishment, Miner was ordered to remove the comments from the website and to write a ten page "objective, expository essay on the viewpoints for and against homosexuality using specific readings."  While Miner removed the website comments he refused to write an essay in support of homosexuality as he said it was a violation of his faith.

Miner notes that his refusal to submit to the punishment may lead to his expulsion from Duquesne.  When asked if he'd be willing to accept that sentence to stay true to his beliefs he responded, "Absolutely."

An appeal of the initial hearing is forthcoming. 

LifeSiteNews.com contacted Duquesne officials seeking comment, but no calls were returned.

In a press release today the American Family Association of Pennsylvania (AFA of PA), a statewide traditional values group, urged Duquesne University to reconsider the sanctions posed on Miner.  The AFA contends that beyond the squabble about wording, Miner "has a First Amendment right to express those views on an off-campus blog."

The AFA release said, "The late Pope John Paul urged Catholics not to be afraid of publicly defending traditional family values in modern society."    Diane Gramley, president of the AFA of PA commented, "Apparently Mr. Miner took the words of Pope John Paul to heart and is now being punished by a Catholic university."

To express your concerns

Charles J. Dougherty, Ph.D.
Duquesne University President
president@duq.edu
600 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15282
Phone: (412) 396-6000 
Toll Free: (800) 456-0590

[NYer]

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[TommyDale]

So much for his freedom of speech, eh?

[starfish923]

What happened to "free speech"?

Besides, normal, healthy animals don't do homosexuality; that's a human behavior. So, he's wrong about the act being subhuman. It's an abnormal act for heterosexuals. For homosexuals, it's normal. Homosexuals are abnormal. Lol.

The school officials have backbone of putty. Shame on'em.

[muir_redwoods]

Simply as a point of intellectual rigor, I believe homosexuality is all too human.

[DarthVader]

Benedict ought to threaten to have this university dissafilited and excommunicate any of these rebels.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"I believe homosexuality is all too human."

Well, the Bible calls it an 'abomination'. But you have a point. Adam and Eve also sinned. So does everyone. Nonetheless, it was a thought-provoking statement, reprimanding sin. Supressing the reprimand of sin bears bad fruit and is therefore evil.

[TommyDale]

Actually, animals do practice homosexuality, but they just don't realize it. "Any port in storm" as they say...

[CondorFlight]

I bet he could have posted an anti-semitic remark and everyone would have defended his right to free speech,
and the university would have refused to admonish him on that basis.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

He explained at the hearing that his use of the word 'subhuman' was meant towards the homosexual act and not homosexual persons.

Unless I missed it, the article does not include the actual paragraph or sentence in dispute. That would have been useful.

[SouthernFreebird]

It's a damn shame that students have to demand not having to accept sinful behavior in a Christian school.

If my child was forced to write a paper FOR homosexuality I'd be pulling them out of the school and the Church that wrongfully stands by while this is being done to students.

[ninenot]

Most likely his expulsion is absolutely inconsistent with University actions for lefty-wonkos.

But it's perfectly acceptable. No Catholic should refer to other people as "sub-human"

Fudge-packer, maybe. Rump-ranger, maybe. But not sub-human.

[verity]

He either is lacking in common sense because he failed to realize the maelstrom that would be generated or he intentionally baited the system.

[Hardastarboard]

This kind of arrogant abrogation of this young man's rights just makes me furious. The First Amendment applies to individuals as well as institutional news media. His rights have just been violated. Time for him to file a $100 million suit against Duquesne University for violating his rights. That might just make them see that they were perhaps a little hasty in this judgement.

[Publius6961]

So much for his freedom of speech, eh?

So much for finding a non-dysfunctional pervert-free institution of higher education for your sons and daughters!

Don't get me started on Georgetown!

[badpacifist]

When the intercessory prayer at Mass was a prayer for more nations to turn to the U.N., a act of magic happened. My checkbook just flat disappeared. We might as well pray for satan to repent of his actions. Why would this kid even want to stay at this university. There are only a few "Catholic" universities left. The war on America and the world in general is at a super natural level. People can't tell what is good and what is evil.

[manwiththehands]

"... normal, healthy animals don't do homosexuality ..."

You've never owned a pair of male Boston Terriers. :)

("Those dogs ain't right")

[starfish923]

"... normal, healthy animals don't do homosexuality ..."
You've never owned a pair of male Boston Terriers. :)
("Those dogs ain't right")

They've obviously been watching too much of their local Democrat Senators from Massachusetts.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You wrote: "[Homosexual behavior]... is all too human."

It depends on the somewhat elusive definition of "human." If you mean, "Human beings do indulge in perversion," then: too, too true. If you mean: "This behavior is still within the norm for human beings," then it's false.

If Ryan meant, "Homosexuals are not human beings," he was grievously wrong, and his statement is deplorable. If he meant, "Acts of perversion are beneath human dignity," he was right.

In any case, all I saw was the one line about "Homosexuality is (not "Homosexuals are ) subhuman," and, while ambiguous, it seemed to be referring to the behaviors, not to the ontological status of the human individuals.

Why didn't the concerned officials of Duquesne just write him a letter and ask, "What do you mean?" Or let him assemble a panel discussion on the subject.

That might arguably be related to the purposes and methods of "higher education."

[Mike Darancette]

"Apparently Mr. Miner took the words of Pope John Paul to heart and is now being punished by a Catholic university."

Now it's love the sin and the sinner? When Catholic universities only have atheists as students they will still not have a clue.

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

More details on the university student who is one small step away from being sent to re-education camp for daring - having the shameless audacity - while enrolled at a Catholic Universtiy no less - to criticize homosexual behavior.

Note the grievously offensive comment has not been quoted. Perhaps he has been "forbidden" from quoting it exactly? Perhaps it is in connection with his disapproval of the Catholic University hosting a "Gay Straight Alliance" club for the purpose of promoting the "gay" agenda and recruiting new members?

Here's another thread on the topic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1510468/posts
Expulsion For Gay Comments? Duquesne Student Resists Punishment


Freepmail me and DirtyHarryY2K if you want on/off this pinglist.

[NYer]

I believe homosexuality is all too human.

Yes, it is a human failing. It's giving in to unhealthy desires, like taking drugs or killing unwanted babies.

[GOPANDCHRISTIANTOO]

Dear Mr. Dougherty,
I am a former Catholic, and I have no affiliation with Duquesne University. However, I would like to respectfully comment on the disciplinary action undertaken by Duquesne against a student named Ryan Miner, who I do not know.

I have held more than a dozen jobs during my adult life. I have been criticized on the job by others, both fairly and unfairly, and I constantly hear fair and unfair criticism of my colleagues. In the private sector, it's very rare for disciplinary action to be directed toward anyone's critics, even when the comments are unfair and potentially emotionally damaging. Outside of the university, we all have critics. I'm not aware of anyone whose lifestyle, political beliefs, religious beliefs or opinions are not controversial to someone, nor do I know of anyone who has been guaranteed they will not be criticized.

Whatever homosexuals may believe about themselves, I wonder what would cause any of them to expect or to demand that they be allowed to go through life with everyone's approval. Universal approval has never been granted to any group of people, homosexual or otherwise.

Since Catholic teaching and scripture both represent homosexuality as unnatural, it's difficult to understand how a Catholic university can threaten to expel someone who simply believes and expresses what the church teaches. Additionally, how can a university allow gays and lesbians to promote their beliefs and lifestyle, and not allow others their freedom of speech to disapprove? To put it another way, if gays come out of the closet, why do people who disapprove of homosexuality have to be forced into the closet? Why must they be silenced, while others are allowed to speak?

As I said in the beginning, I am a former Catholic. At a point in time, I no longer believed some of what the Catholic church teaches. Rather than pretending to be Catholic and insisting that others consider me to be a Catholic, I was willing to be intellectually honest enough to leave the church. I see no reason why anyone who no longer follows the teachings of the church should insist on the church's support of their own individualized form of Catholicism--an individualized form of religion which is not accountable to Catholic teaching, Catholic tradition, Catholic officials, the authority of scripture, or to anything except to the waivering whims of one individual who has developed an individual religion for one. I think Catholics who no longer are willing to believe and live according to what the church teaches should do what I've done, and leave. It seems to me that a Catholic university would do better to embrace the faithful than to punish the faithful and embrace the partially faithful or the faithless.

Thank you, sir, for your time.

[conservative blonde]

Thanks for the article. I sent an e-mail to Duquesne's president. I hope they get a ton of adverse correspondence ont his matter. It just sickens me to see how far down the slippery slope of tolerating immorality the Catholic Church has gone. It is very sad but it is getting much easier to find the Catholic Church in the Book of Revelations.

[NYer]

A beautiful letter and thank you for posting it to this thread!

Since Catholic teaching and scripture both represent homosexuality as unnatural, it's difficult to understand how a Catholic university can threaten to expel someone who simply believes and expresses what the church teaches.

So what does the Catholic Church teach about homosexuality?

 

1. First, individual homosexual actions are “intrinsically disordered” and “in no case to be approved of ” (Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith [CDF], 1975, No. 3; 1992, No. 1). In ordinary language this means that a homosexual act, willfully and freely committed, is a mortal sin. Mortal sins cut a person off from the lifegiving grace of God (“destroy charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law”)—Catechism of the Catholic Church (#1855). 
2. The condition of the person which is often associated with these intrinsically evil acts is itself “objectively disordered” (CDF, 1986). The person must strive to overcome this particular inclination while it should evoke the moral and pastoral concern of others, “lest the person is led to believe that living out this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not,” (CDF 1992, No. 2).
3. Violence against homosexuals is to be deplored and condemned.
4. While all unjust discrimination is to be rejected, there are areas where just discrimination is necessary such as, “for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment” (CDF, 1992, #11).  While homosexuals, as human persons, have the same rights as everyone else, nevertheless these rights are not absolute (#12).  There is no “right” to homosexuality (#13).
5. The homosexual condition is not comparable to race, gender, ethnicity, age, or colour. As objectively disordered, it can never form the basis for human “rights,” nor for changing civil statutes or laws. The contrary view cannot but have an adverse effect on the correct understanding of the nature and rights of the family (CDF, 1992).
6. It is inappropriate for Church authorities to endorse or remain neutral toward adverse legislation even if it grants exceptions to Church organizations and institutions (CDF, 1992, #16).

FULL TEXT

I am a former Catholic. At a point in time, I no longer believed some of what the Catholic church teaches. Rather than pretending to be Catholic and insisting that others consider me to be a Catholic, I was willing to be intellectually honest enough to leave the church.

A frank and honest approach that should be adopted by others who remain in the Church while actively seeking to change teachings. Whatever your reasons for leaving, you may find some of them were the result of poor catechesis. Perhaps this site can clarify any misunderstandings.

ONCE CATHOLIC

Again, thank you for taking the time to write and post your letter. May our Lord richly reward and bless you and your family.

[moog]

The school officials have backbone of putty. Shame on'em.


Now that is silly. I wonder how good they pick up the comics.

[Coleus]

 

Expulsion For Gay Comments? Duquesne Student Resists Punishment

[moog]

Fudge-packer, maybe. Rump-ranger

When you call someone those things, they are the BUTT of many jokes.

[USS Alaska]

Is this what hoho dean was referring to when he was talking about "hiding the sausage"?

[moog]

Is this what hoho dean was referring to when he was talking about "hiding the sausage"?

Dean's related to Santa Claus??? He has to grow a beard first and practice his hohos. Screaming, "Ho, ho, ho, Merry Christmas!" isn't going to cut it, but it may break a few windows. As far as "hiding the sausage," I thought that was bringing home the bacon or putting some meat on the issues.

[spunkets]

"Moreover, Miner read the Catholic Catechism in his defence as the Catechism refers to homosexual acts as, "acts as acts of grave depravity", "intrinsically disordered" and "contrary to the natural law." His was nonetheless found guilty of the charges."

Miner was told to write a 10 page paper concerning the Church's position on the matter. He refused. It looks like all the effort he's going to put in this, is to shoot off his mouth in a careless and emoitonal way.

Being that this is school and all... He could and should have taken those the viewpoints for homosexuality and tore them apart "using specific readings". Instead, he'll show up at the appeal to bluster and waive his hands some more, for the record.

[TonyRo76]

God bless this fine young disciple!

[Graymatter]

Besides, normal, healthy animals don't do homosexuality

Oh yes they do. I had a normal healthy tomcat once, very well behaved around humans. He was so good I kept a few of his kittens, and indeed they all turned out just as agreeable as their sire. But one time I had to keep the cats indoors for a few days while a contractor did major work on the barn. Twice I caught my Tom boffing one of his male offspring. I tell you the lace on my collar stood straight up when I saw that. But I believe he was operating under the "any port" rule. The offspring, now, that's another story. He looked very philosophical about it.

True story. File under "situational ethics," I guess. They were in an unnatural situation, my kitchen, and for all they knew it was eternal. So they were rearranging their behavior. Rather quickly I must say.

[jb6]

Freedom of Speech? Nah.

Decency and Catholic values? Nah.

Well, aren't we the moral standard of the world....I'm surprised it doesn't rain fire on all of our perversions.

[jb6]

Besides, normal, healthy animals don't do homosexuality; that's a human behavior.

Actually there are several species of apes that do it with both sexes. Regardless, its an animalistic act, acted upon temptation of the flesh and the Devil.

[dmartin]

Actually, animals do practice homosexuality, but theydon't teach it to their children.

Closer to the mark.

[weegee]

Animals will engage in homosexual "mating". They also rape, engage in cross-species sex (including but not limited to humping your leg), and probably don't respect the "age" barrier when primal mating urges take hold. They'll eat feces. Not a lot of civilized behavior among animals. That is why they are "sub-human".

What CAN be said about "homosexuality" as a desire FOR same sex pairing exclusively in the animal kingdom is that it is minutely rare, if even documentable. Cross-dressing in the animal kingdom is even more rare, :P

[weegee]

We are all sinners. We do NOT all form organizations to try to ENCOURAGE and CELEBRATE our sins. Especially at religious backed learning institutions.

[dmartin]

Miner was told to write a 10 page paper concerning the Church's position on the matter. He refused. It looks like all the effort he's going to put in this, is to shoot off his mouth in a careless and emotional way.

Being that this is school and all... He could and should have taken those the viewpoints for homosexuality and tore them apart "using specific readings". Instead, he'll show up at the appeal to bluster and waive his hands some more, for the record.

Wouldn't have thought that he would have to educate the faculty of a Catholic University on the church's teachings as regards homosexuality. But hey, he doesn't have to spend his time actually studying. Let's teach him a lesson by making him write a report.

The report based on 'specific readings' is nothing more than an attempt to get him to modify his position.

[weegee]

Twice I caught my Tom boffing one of his male offspring. I tell you the lace on my collar stood straight up when I saw that. But I believe he was operating under the "any port" rule.

The libertines in society would use your example to make the case for tolerance of parent-offspring incest as well as homosexuality.

Which reminds me, would this Uniperversity draw the line at a NAMBLA chapter coming on campus?

[SmoothTalker]

Not a very PC comment, but what happened to free speech?

[SaveTheChief]

IMO, the word "subhuman" is a poor choice, and inaccurate. It is the same word the Nazis used to describe Jews. It is the word white supremacists often use to describe anyone who isn't white.

Human beings are flawed by nature. We sin, have addictions, commit crimes against others, and sometimes make decisions that are selfish. But that does not mean all humans choose to live a life of evil. God has given us all the freedom to choose if we are going to live a sinful life, or a life deserving of His Blessings.

A person choosing to live the homosexual lifestyle is very human, and has exercised all the rights and powers to make the decision to live a life of sin. People who choose to live that homosexual lifestyle may be sinful, but they are not subhuman, and are capable of receiving God's Blessings just like anyone else. This doesn't mean that God gives everyone a "free pass," however.

[weegee]

The act is sub-human. As is rape. It is an act of animal lust, not rational behavior.

Those who engage in the acts are not sub-human. Hunter Thompson wrote something like, "When one makes a beast out himself, he gets over the pain of being a man."

Clear how we can "cross the line" into what is acceptable behavior?

The minority opionion is trying to dictate to the majority that we should not be making moral decisions over sexual pairings. The Homosexual Agenda is just the battering ram for the Sex Positive Agenda (they believe it is human birthright to be sexually active at every age with any one or thing regardless of age, relation, sex, or species of partner). http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sex+positive%22

[starfish923]

Regardless, its an animalistic act, acted upon temptation of the flesh and the Devil.

I suppose that I object to giving animals a bad rap. They have NO CHOICE or FREE WILL.
It may be temptation of the flesh and the Devil, as any sin is, but animals are incapable of that as well.

It's just a sinful act, nothing to do with animals or their adjectives.
It may be monstrous, heinous, disgusting, nauseating, abnormal, alien, horrible, awful, hellish, devilish, debasing, immoral, debauched, vicious, pernicious, evil, terrible....whatever, but animalistic? Nope. Leave the doggies out of the entire "sin" arena, please.
Communication is the basis of our society. Words are how we do it.

[spunkets]

"Wouldn't have thought that he would have to educate the faculty of a Catholic University on the church's teachings as regards homosexuality."

Why, because they're credentialed? Looks like he's recruiting others to do his work for him. He's probably a business major.

" But hey, he doesn't have to spend his time actually studying. Let's teach him a lesson by making him write a report."

Studying what? He's taken an interest and a stand and they called him on it. It's time he puts up something substantial.

" The report based on 'specific readings' is nothing more than an attempt to get him to modify his position."

Maybe the rainbow clowns think that, but this is for the record and his professed cause. That means he should actually put up something substantial to defend his position.

[weegee]

It is the same word the Nazis used to describe Jews.

The Nazis spoke ENGLISH? I seriously doubt they used the English word "sub-human" (although I will concede that they may have used it in some US-UK targeted propaganda leaflets/broadcasts).

They DID try to claim that Jews were an inferior race. They also claimed that black people were inferior (visible the attention on the Olympics and boxing matches).

Then again, they had a supremacist philosophy that put Aryans at the top of the social order. Homosexuality is an act and mental disorder, not a race. Transvestism is a clearly a mental disorder as we are born naked; clothing is merely fashion and culture.

Nazism is all too-human. A systemic design for discrimination, power, control, and violence. Much like Islamonazism. Both preach supremacy. Muslims put themselves atop the legal order over Jews-Christians over "everybody else" including but not restricted to Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists. Some Imam will even tell followers that while it is alright for a muslim man to marry a woman who converts to Islam from another faith, it is forbidden for a muslim woman to marry a man who converts to Islam. Thus there is a racial component to their political-theocratical philosophy.

There is no "past" in the animal kingdom beyond the immediate "family". No history to hold grudges over. No differences of opinion to wage war over (they will fight over turf/mate/family). These are human traits.

Sub-human does not equal evil and human does not equal good. They are descriptions of animistic vs. civilized behavior. Civilized behavior is decided by those in power (with acknowledgments paid to past societies and changing attitudes). It is generally (but not always) by consensus.

If we want to do way with all laws and concepts of social order (whether it is morally determined or strictly popular/ruling opinion) we might as well crawl back into the muck. The genie is out of the bottle. We are "only" human but we do not have to approve of antisocial behavior ("outlaw" culture). If someone chooses to live outside of society's norms, that is his or her decision. Don't like the rules? Change them in the legislature.

Same sex marriage is about same sex adoption and the "mainstream" norming of the abnormal (whether you believe it to be "sub-human" or not, certainly it is not normal).

[weegee]

DOMESTICATED animals DO have free will. Otherwise you could not train them to stay or obey.

They may "want" to walk into the other room, but they understand when you tell them they are not permitted to do so.

A dog can be made to refrain from bad behavior. (S)he may not know WHY it is a bad thing, but understands the forbidden. As I understand it from pet owners, they even understand "guilt" when they do some things.

[weegee]

While all unjust discrimination is to be rejected, there are areas where just discrimination is necessary such as, “for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment” (CDF, 1992, #11). While homosexuals, as human persons, have the same rights as everyone else, nevertheless these rights are not absolute (#12). There is no “right” to homosexuality (#13).

While 2 adults of the same sex may consent to live together, the adopted child does not consent to be brought into an abnormal domestic household. Is it an attempt at "normalcy" for same sex parents to adopt? Only one can ever be the paternal mother or father. Is it a "fun accessory"?Why is there now a trend for same sex couples to raise children? Is there much history for it? On the scale of people engaging in same sex activity?

Teachers and coaches (and priests) have an authority figure role and are looked up to and trusted by children and young people. They are not cynical of peoples' motives. Parents may put too much trust in someone who is the same sex as the child (whether it is a boyscout leader have overnight camping trips, a coach on away games/meets, or a religious leader needing the child to report for service after school).

And with military recruiting, when will men and women share showers/bunks if heterosexual and homosexual soldiers live together? We hear that homosexuals are not attracted to heterosexuals yet inappropriate glances and remarks are made. Why are cellphones banned in locker rooms if homosexuals are not interested in looking at naked heterosexuals? It certainly isn't a problem of heterosexuals sneaking into the opposite sex's locker room. Formerly in history, there was shame/scandal in being outed as a homosexual. It could put someone in a compromising position (subject to blackmail) if (s)he led an "immoral" sex life.

[Xenophon450]

You forgot "Turd Burglar" ;)

[SaveTheChief]

The Nazis spoke ENGLISH?

Yes. Yes they did. And black helicopters harass me ceaselessly.