Posted on 10/27/2005 12:11:56 PM PDT by SwinneySwitch
KINGSVILLE - For weeks, the arrival of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps in South Texas fueled fiery debate among students at Texas A&M University at Kingsville.
"The issues of immigration and frontier ... justice affect everyone," said Aaron Cuevas, 22, a graduate student in political science here. "We wanted the information to come right from the source so it would go unfiltered, so students and residents could make educated opinions."
Tuesday night, Cuevas and other students helped the university sponsor a forum that pitted two Minutemen against the leader of an opposition group and two attorneys for a Mexican-American civil rights organization.
"I never understood both sides," said Lilia Gonzalez, 21, who helped organize the forum. "It's a huge debate in this region. We have supporters and a lot of non-supporters."
While the Minutemen insisted they are patriots in a non-violent campaign to curb illegal immigration, opponents called them racists whose presence threatened to spark division among Anglo and Mexican-American residents.
"We are not vigilantes. We are not the (Ku Klux Klan)," state Minutemen President Al Garza told the audience of about 200 students and area residents.
"We are simply citizens who are tired of a Congress not doing their jobs," Garza said, referring to the government's failure to stop illegal immigration.
On private property, Minutemen spot undocumented immigrants then report them to U.S. Border Patrol agents, said Mike Vickers, a veterinarian in Falfurrias who joined the group in June.
"We have no contact with the illegal immigrants," he said.
Last summer, the nude body of an undocumented woman was found about 400 feet from his home, said Vickers, whose ranch lies just north of the Border Patrol's check point on U.S. 281.
"Our country is in great peril. What we have is chaos, total lawlessness, and we intend to stop it," Vickers said. "The groups got bigger, they got more bold, more violent. We find there are 1,000 a night, maybe 2,000... The Border Patrol is not an efficient force in the brush or on the highways. They don't have the resources."
Near Benavides, he drove a Hispanic rancher to a hospital after two undocumented immigrants shot him, Vickers said.
"There are not just Mexicans. They're people from all over the world," said Vickers, who said he found Sudanese money on his ranch. "There's a lot of indications that we have people from the Middle East coming through our ranch country."
But Michael Chavez, leader of the ContraMinute Men Coalition in Brooks County, called the group "an extension of white supremacists organizations."
"We must protect people's human rights. We must protect people's civil rights," Chavez said. "They have no right hunting down human beings. These people are not trained. They don't know what they're doing out there. The truth is they have an anti-Latino agenda. They're trying to incite a race war. They're trying to incite the browns to step up against them."
Luis Figueroa, an attorney for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF), warned the Minutemen's presence in South Texas could lead to "confrontation."
"They seek to take the law into their own hands," Figueroa said. "It only makes the problem worse."
The Minutemen use "racial profiling" to identify people as undocumented immigrants, Figueroa claimed.
"There is no way without proper training to distinguish between an illegal immigrant and a citizen," he said. "The only way they can distinguish ... is by the color of their skin or their clothing."
fernandodv@valleystar.com 956-430-6278
Why would 25 "citizens" be traveling, on foot, in the dark, on a private ranch, in South Texas, at 1:30 am in the morning, Figueroa?!
Night scope bird watching?
The two sides of the debate---
1) we should run through the cornfields with nets, chasing them like in "Planet of the Apes" or
2) Use those robocop robots with the missiles on their shoulders
No, mostly males with only a few birds.
Ah, yes. Play the race card when trying to defend the indefensible.
Racism? I've found that laws tend to only "discriminate" against the people who break them.
MM Ping!
Please FReepmail me if you want on or off this South Texas/Mexico ping list.
So, what did the kids think?
The issue is really very simple. One side wants and recognizes our borders and the other doesn't.
ping
. . . opponents called them racists . . .
Here, I like Victor Davis Hanson's reply that "that old slur is SO pre-911" and add that the MMs aren't guilt-ridden white liberals - or politicians who will assume the fetal position every time that charge is hurled.
I have the same question. My only fear is that they have been trained in public schools to react to the emotional misinformation and not the logical information. I notice the only argument presented in opposition was "they are racists, they are an extension of the KKK" etc. Did I miss where they said why it was great to have so many illegals crossing the borders?
Thank you Minute Men for helping to secure our borders.
Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!
Support our Minutemen Patriots!
Be Ever Vigilant ~ Bump!
I thought you had to be a citizen of THIS country to claim "civil rights"? Maybe I missed something?
Just sitting here enjoying the posts. La Raza can scream all they want as far as I'm concerned.
The facts are that we have a flawed immigration policy and the MM provide a real and honorable service.
The kids were of divided opinions!
At least they were interested enough to go to the Forum!
Excuse me, but how does an illegal need an attorney for a Mexican-AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS organization?
There is no way without proper training to distinguish between an illegal immigrant and a citizen
What a pile of manure. Anyone, brown, white, or purple who isn't authorized to be on a rancher's land is at the very least trespassing and should to be detained.
What did the kids think? Well, being as it was A&M and not UT, I'd imagine most sided with the MM.
Viva Los Hombres Minutos! I donated $100.00 to their website last week :)
"The Minutemen use "racial profiling" to identify people as undocumented immigrants, Figueroa claimed."
Yeah, mhmm. Lotta Europeans sneaking in thru our BORDER WITH MEXICO.
Duhhhhhhhhhh
Wow, I've never seen a person cram so many lies into so few words. But since there are no good arguments to support illegal immigration, the illegal immigration cheerleaders can only resort to name-calling and lying when debating this issue.
That Mexican General idea really would work, considering how their national government has lost all control of their Northern states to the drug cartels who, in turn, are using former and bribed Mexican Army personnel for enforcement and shipment protection.
Ol' Friedman's pretty straight-up for a self-acknowledged Democrat.
I tend to forget that these people's lies and race-baitings are actually believed by significant portions of the population. Thank you, Lyndon Johnson, for helping create such a backward mindset that causes otherwise rational citizens to lobotomize their brains to spite their headaches.
""The only way they can distinguish ... is by the color of their skin or their clothing." "
And this is wrong because??
"And this is wrong because??"
In the middle of a South Texas ranch at night, it's too dark to see what color a person's skin is or what kind of clothing they're wearing! There are no street lights out there, amigo.
Anyone walking around on a ranch, without the landowners permission, is up to no good. I don't care if their skin color is red, yellow, black, white, brown or green!
"Anyone walking around on a ranch, without the landowners permission, is up to no good. I don't care if their skin color is red, yellow, black, white, brown or green!"
I agree with you completely. My point was there is nothing racist if you can SEE an obvious Mexican illegal trespassing
I mean, they don't look like Cristy Brinkley!
We are not in complete agreement. How do you know it is a Mexican illegal? There are fair skinned blond haired Mexicans, and there are brown skinned dark haired people who are not Mexicans!
"The Minutemen use "racial profiling" to identify people as undocumented immigrants, Figueroa claimed."
I'd say they are using geographical profiling and a little common sense.
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