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To: NYer
This state of affairs continued throughout the colonial period and into the Americas, where each colony—except Pennsylvania and New York—had its own state church.

This is false. Most religious establishments in America -- even during the colonial period, but increasingly over time -- were either multiple or general establishments. That is that MORE than one church was supported by the state, and sometimes any church was eligible.

This was handled by various schemes, with a great deal of experimentation over time. For instance you might have to pay a compulsory religious tax, but then may be able to dictate to which denomination it was remitted. OTOH you might be required to support the "official" local church with your taxes, but in many cases the minister (and thereby the denomination) was locally elected. There might be one (or two) "official" churches that received tax dollars, but maybe you could get an exemption from the tax if you could prove that you attended and financially supported a local church of a different denomination.

4 posted on 10/14/2005 8:58:47 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: Stultis

There might be one (or two) "official" churches that received tax dollars, but maybe you could get an exemption from the tax if you could prove that you attended and financially supported a local church of a different denomination.

Just as long as you weren't a Baptist or Roman Catholic.


28 posted on 10/18/2005 4:48:02 PM PDT by JohnRoss (We need a real conservative in 2008)
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To: Stultis
At the time the First Amendment was framed in 1789, no State, except perhaps Connecticut, had a state church. Connecticut was such a putrid cesspool of religious bigotry, counterfeit Christians and Satan worship masquerading as Congregationalism, that I am not sure that what they had was Christianity or what it should be called.

In my view a Christian is one who acknowledges the authority of Christ in matters of religion. If the religion comes from the government, it is not Christianity. Here is my assessment of the authority over religion claimed by the States in 1789.

In 1789 Virginia had already established a perfect Separation of Church and State by law. No establishments by law of any religious duty, no religious test for holding public office and full and equal civil rights regardless of one's religion

In 1789, New York had already established a Separation of Church and State by law.

In 1789 North Carolina had already established an actual Separation of Church and State. There was a religious test that required elected officials to be Protestants, but it was not enforced. The governor of North Carolina, in 1781, was a Catholic. Jews and infidels are said to have held office.

In 1789, Delaware had already established a Separation of Church and State except for a religious test that was abolished shortly after the First Amendment was ratified. The Delaware Constitution clearly established a strict separation by prohibiting the government from assuming any authority whatsoever over, or to get involved in any manner, with religion.

In 1789, Maryland had already established a separation of Church and State with the exception that the civil rights of the Jewish were disabled until 1826. Representation in the upper chamber of the Maryland legislature was not structured to fairly represent the sentiments of the people. This enabled the conservative minority to block, for thirty seven years, the Jeffersonian majority from extending civil rights to all religions.

In 1789 the Georgia Constitution abolished the requirement that elected representatives be Protestants. Thereby, establishing a Total Separation of Church and State.

In 1789, Rhode Island retained the Separation of Church and State it was founded upon in 1643. In 1842, the State adopted its first Constitution with strong safeguards for religious liberty lifted almost verbatim from the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom of 1786.

In 1789, New Jersey had already established a Separation of Church and State with the exception of a religious test for elected officials that excluded all but Protestants. There is no evidence that the test was ever applied but I have not found a case of a non-Protestant holding office and the test was not officially abolished until 1844. I will wager a three pence that there were Non-Protestants who held office before 1844.

In 1789 the Pennsylvania Constitution required office holders to profess a belief in God the divine inspiration of the Scriptures. These were abolished in 1790 establishing a perfect separation of Church and State.

In 1789 the South Carolina Constitution granted Protestants the privilege of establishing and incorporating a church. This was abolished in 1790.

In summary, a year after the First Amendment was ratified in 1791, ten of the thirteen States had voluntarily established a separation of church and state.
36 posted on 01/10/2006 10:40:47 AM PST by FredFlash
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