Posted on 09/01/2005 4:35:42 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
WASHINGTON - The White House scrambled Thursday to defend itself against criticism that it has consistently proposed cutting the budget for Army Corps of Engineers water and flood control projects — including several that could have mitigated the disaster in New Orleans.
Just in February, President Bush proposed cutting the Corps' budget by 7 percent. The year before, Bush proposed a 13 percent cut.
Both cuts are part of an annual ritual in Washington in which the president shortchanges lawmakers' pet projects, knowing Congress will restore the money later on.
On Thursday, however, the Bush White House made available top Corps officials to assure reporters that cuts to the agency's budget did not cause the disaster. Even though the administration has chronically cut back on the Corps of Engineers' own requests for funding — including two key New Orleans-area projects — White House officials trumpeted the administration's support for the Corps.
"Flood control has been a priority of this administration from Day One," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.
Mike Parker, a former Mississippi congressman who was booted as civilian head of the Corps in 2002 after criticizing the White House budget office, said Hurricane Katrina was so powerful that flooding was inevitable. But it might not have been as bad.
"I'm not saying that this would not have occurred in New Orleans in this situation," Parker told The Associated Press. "I am saying that there would have been less flooding if all the projects had been funded."
A senior Corps commander discounted the notion the disaster could have been averted by full funding of projects such as new and beefed up levees to protect against hurricane surges from Lake Pontchartrain and improving pumping and drainage capacity in New Orleans.
"These (projects) were not funded at the full ability of the Corps of Engineers to execute the project," said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, commander of the Army Corps of Engineers. "But the important question is, 'Would that have made a difference?' And my assessment is, no, it would not."
But Strock did acknowledge that more funding for the Southeast Louisiana Flood Control Project would allow the Corps to more quickly pump out the floodwaters inundating New Orleans.
"Had we had the SELA project finished ... we could more efficiently move the water out of the system because it's a big drainage project," Strock said.
Other presidents also have taken aim at the Corps' budget. President Carters' first veto came against a big water projects bill passed by a Democratic-dominated Congress. And President Clinton squeezed the Corps budget as well. Doing so frees money for other White House priorities.
"I fought every ... administration when they tried to use the Corps of Engineers as a piggy bank to pay for other projects," said former House Appropriations Committee Chairman Bob Livingston, a Louisiana Republican who represented the New Orleans suburbs for more than 20 years. "I had major battles with the Clinton administration."
"Going back to Carter. They've all sought to draw down the Corps of Engineers and put it elsewhere," he said.
Former Louisiana Sen. John Breaux (news, bio, voting record), a Democrat, said it was clear during his time in Congress that flood control projects were shortchanged.
"Those levees are OK under normal times but once every hundred years, that's not enough," he said in an interview. "We've all said for years that a category 4 or 5 hurricane hit just right on New Orleans, there was nothing there sufficient to prevent New Orleans from being 20 feet under water."
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Other presidents also have taken aim at the Corps' budget. President Carters' first veto came against a big water projects bill passed by a Democratic-dominated Congress. And President Clinton squeezed the Corps budget as well. Doing so frees money for other White House priorities.
"I fought every ... administration when they tried to use the Corps of Engineers as a piggy bank to pay for other projects," said former House Appropriations Committee Chairman Bob Livingston, a Louisiana Republican who represented the New Orleans suburbs for more than 20 years. "I had major battles with the Clinton administration."
"And President Clinton squeezed the Corps budget as well."
This is useful to know.
Why should the federal taxpayer subsidize this? If you're going to build a city in a hole next to the ocean, you should expect to pay for the levees yourself.
Oh, I loathe the press. By now though, the main of America is sick of "Bush's Fault". IOW, the presstitutes and left overplayed their hand. Those that hate/blame W already do and will. In any event, let's do an investigation/audit into LA's fed $$ they did receive, particularly around NOLA...
No big shock here. The insane rantings of Moonbats that begins on hyper-Leftist outlets like Kos and DU eventually finds it's way to the supposedly "mainstream" AP.
Livingston was driven from office by the Democrats.
I agree. This is not going to change one single mind from right to left. Of course, minds are changed in the other direction every day, by numerous factors, all related to reality.
I like your comment about investigations and audits as well. There is lots of time to blunt the criticism coming at our side before the next election. Just have the FBI or the GAO (or whatever agency is appropriate) launch a few investigations. No big fanfare or anything. Let the results dribble out slowly. Cumulative effect will be strong over time.
Don't worry about the flailing of the left during this time of panic. It's just more self gratification from the people who don't know how to do anything else with their hands.
(steely)
OC California is considered the worst potential flood disaster in the nation. The project to raise Prado Dam was started over 35 years ago, when OC was agricultural. They predicted 5000-8000 then, today it would be 20000-100000 or more. Prado Dam was almost topped last winter. Around the same time the contract was finally let out to raise the Dam 14 feet(?, or was it 28 feet). In the OC case environmentalist held up the project for 30 years.
With the NO levy system I would check that first to see what the reasons were. With a levy system, for improvements to be effective you must raise all the dikes at the same time.
Apparently the Corps of Engineers is pretty corrupt; the following two paragraphs are one example:
RECORD AMOUNT OF WATER PROJECT PORK IN WRDA BILL; MANAGERS AMENDMENT EXPANDS WATER RESOURCES BILL BY $1.6 BILLION
http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/PressReleases/2005/7-14wrda.htm
This nightmare of a bill does little more than spend billions of dollars on local pork projects for the districts of powerful lawmakers, while solidifying the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers as one of the most wasteful, fiscally irresponsible agencies in the nation.
WRDA is normally a biennial bill, but a series of scandals involving the Corps of Engineers – including documented evidence that the Corps manipulated data and willfully overestimated project benefits – has kept Congress from enacting a water resources bill since 2000. But this bill ignores the Corps’ recent history of corruption and rejects years of reform efforts by fiscally responsible lawmakers.
Re#9 Well stated. In light of the politicization of this tragedy, the GOP should announce a Congressional investigation beginning with said audit. Let the chips fall where they may...
lemme guess...the army corps did with their budget what california did with their federal bucks, which were designated for cutting down all the dead trees in the san bernardino mountains before the fires two years ago....
took ten years to blow it on "studying" the situation, set themselves up in cushy offices, and basically went around and around about nothing.
Thanks for the link!
Hey, all, here's a "talking point" for answering these 'Rats wailing about federal budgets for the Army Corps of Engineers: ask them why Kennedy and Kerry were allowed to funnel $15 billion or so into "Boston's BIG DIG" while the precious city of New Orleans staggered along in peril of its very existence? Why didn't Kerry-Kennedy and all the 'Rats in the Louisiana delegation push for that money to be poured into 'saving' New Orleans????
http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/wastebasket/transportation/4-12-00.htm
Also, remember that all through the 8 YEARS of the Clinton administration, 4 years of Carter, not to mention the 40+ YEARS of a mainly Democratic Congress, there was ample opportunity to push for what these Monday-morning quarterbacks now say should have been done... it is pure ugly partisan politics that these hacks are trying to make it an issue against the Bush administration now.
That's a bit over the top.
Starting with "Moon" Landrieu" former Mayor, (Mary's father), Mitchell Landrieu, Lt. Governor of Louisiana presently (Mary's brother) and Mary Landrieu's BANK ACCOUNTS. Let's investigate the entire CRIMINAL family!
The only response I am giving the press is to Go to Hell.
It's all these deserve as they pay politics with Lives.
Meanwhile the man that cares and is competant that isn't playing PR games or politics is, Yep, that man is our President.
So go to Hell press, Libs, whomever else engages in this. I won't waste my time pointing out on defense how despicable and twisted what you say is, only how you are reacting and that is why the American people HATE you.
Exactly...
ping for later
Where is David Vitter?
Your name says it all. For one thing it wasnt in a hole 300 yrs ago. Trying to do flood control projects in the 20th century has caused it to SINK SINK SINK!
To rebuild New Orleans would be a futile and wasted effort, an even larger disaster awaits.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:5fNE2-FnzKcJ:www.uh.edu/engines/epi1135.htm++Mississippi+river+to+flow+down+old+river+sooner+or+later&hl=en
How so?
I hope to be alive for the war between the leftists and Americans. My list of America's enemys is growing daily.
The "blame Bush" trash need to face the reality of life.
Naturally, when talking about this "annual ritual", the biased media doesn't bother to mention another aspect of the ritual. Every federal agency invariably requests far more money than they actually need, in the sure knowledge that their request will be cut severely. Of course, if they actually get the extra money, that allows them to expand their bureaucracy and power base, and go on a spending spree. If they don't get the money, and something bad happens, they can then shift to another popular ritual, the blame game.
I doubt that Bush or any other president actually cut the Corps' budget. These "cuts" are probably the result of D.C. miracle math. My guess is that an objective look at the budget over the past 30 years will show it increasing each year.
How so?
Larry Flint outed him for having an affair. When Gingrich resigned, Livingston effectively became Speaker of the House. Livingston then resigned from Congress when Larry Flynt threatened to go public that Livingston, like Newt, was doing some doodling.
http://www.answers.com/topic/bob-livingston
I dug around and looked up the SELA projects today. None of them dealt with raising the levees that wouild have prevented the flooding. It was a series of canals and additional pumps to drain off excess water. That is why he said it might have helped drain things. Many of the projects were listed as done in 2003, the last time they updated the official website.
I think that when all is said and done, blame for the levee problem comes down to the lack of a plan, much as the rest of this mess. Instead of setting the city up for after the storm, the folks that should have had a plan for some aspects of the city's safety bugged out. The levee is a great example. Those 3000 pound sand bags the mayor was pleading to have the corp drop? They were sitting at the construction site beforehand to place before the storm hit. The construction on the canal, levee, and bridge were not completed. The means to make up for this were not placed.
Source for sand bags: http://www.nola.com/hurricane/popup/nolalevees_jpg.html
SELA site:
http://www.selaprojects.com/newsroom.htm
(I suspect the bridge work was done. So that might be why the bags were not placed. Did the construction weaken the levee so that this is the spot it failed? I am not so sure it would not have failed somewhere -- it was being overtopped and the power was out to the pumps. Many on the web think that this project was to improve the levee.)
I wish the Army Corps of Engineers would change their name. They like to evoke the image of smart, hard working Army Engineers when they are mostly a bunch of anti property rights desk jockeys. They should at least change it to the Coast Guard Corps of Engineers.
Was Larry Flynt serving as a member of the Democratic Party?
.
Good point, kind of like saying we cut spending, but not really, more so the rate we spend at was slowed or decreased is more accurate.
True cuts rarely if ever are cuts, per se.
Soycd, I am pleased to inform you that this war has already begun on several fronts! The enemy list is certainly larger than the 100 described by Bernard Goldberg in his new book, but as he advises and encourages -- hey, make your own list, now! Liberals will never face the reality of life -- they want a utopia in which they alone will reside, and free handouts from the rest of us. "I like paying taxes, they purchase CIVILIZATION!" ;-) (Oliver Wendell Holmes)
Soycd, I am pleased to inform you that this war has already begun on several fronts! The enemy list is certainly larger than the 100 described by Bernard Goldberg in his new book, but as he advises and encourages -- hey, make your own list, now! Liberals will never face the reality of life -- they want a utopia in which they alone will reside, and free handouts from the rest of us. "I like paying taxes, they purchase CIVILIZATION!" ;-) (Oliver Wendell Holmes)
Was Larry Flynt serving as a member of the Democratic Party?
Don't care.
Don't know.
The Army Corps of Engineers is NOT responsible for the levees on the canals that go from Lake Ponchartrain to the Mississippi River. These arr the levees that broke. Each canal has its own local board that governs its management and maintenance. The Corps has helped out at times but its only true responsibility is the levees on the Mississippi River, because that is an interstate waterway. Those levees did not break.
Please recite this FACT the next time some MSM-brainwashed person talks to you about Corps budget cuts.
Corps doesn't give campaign contributions. Private outfits do. Voila, money flows away.
Heres the funny thing. The enviro-nazis have been crying about our flood control projecs for decades. Which is it left? Flood control or no flood control?
Political hacks are trying to make headway in 3 southern states that have gone republican more often than not.
How do we block their intentions?
Attack the democrat governor's lack of initiative regarding money.....they could have done the same thing. After all, it is the state and it's not like state's are destitute of money.
Some blogger should go back and chart the year-by-year spending by the Corps of Engineers (remember this is part of the DoD budget, which was deeply slashed by Bozo Clinton). I'll bet there was no decline in spending under Bush, and that Clinton's cuts were deeper, if there were any.. WHAT ARE THE NUMBERS?
Sigh. Yet another "scramble" story.
What would the MSM do without its loaded cliches?
I cringed there too.
Let's get real here. Catching Osama is a priority.
When I hear people campaign based on flood control I'll believe it's a priority.
This sort of misstatement just adds fuel to the fire. Fact is, if this were the big deal everyone is saying it is they'd have been raising h*ll you'd remember now before Katrina.
I cringed there too.
Let's get real here. Catching Osama is a priority.
When I hear people campaign based on flood control I'll believe it's a priority.
This sort of misstatement just adds fuel to the fire. Fact is, if this were the big deal everyone is saying it is they'd have been raising h*ll you'd remember now before Katrina.
I'd like to see the numbers too....generally in DC a cut means no increase in money.
[Page: H777] GPO's PDF
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The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Mississippi (Mr. TAYLOR) is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, when I was a kid, and when a guy named Mike Parker was a kid, it was fairly common for schoolteachers to talk about a story. We do not know if it is true or not, but they certainly told kids about a young man who, as a child, had a hatchet, and he took that hatchet to his father's favorite cherry tree and chopped it down. And when his father confronted him very angrily over whether or not he had done that, he said, Sir, I cannot tell a lie, I chopped down that cherry tree.
We do not know whether or not that is true, but it certainly is an important lesson. The important lesson is that the person who is said to have told the truth went on to become the father of our country, and this town is named after him. I regret to say that that sort of reward seems missing in this town right now.
I know of another person who in this town just last week told the truth and for that he was asked to resign. That person is my fellow Mississippian, Mike Parker , a former member of this body who served in both the Democrat and Republican Parties.
Mike appeared before the Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development of the Committee on Appropriations last week. As the head of the United States Army Corps of Engineers, the Under Secretary of the Army for that job, Mike told the Members of that committee that he did not feel that the budget was enough. He went on to say that he felt like the Office of Management and Budget had intentionally underestimated the amount of money that would be needed to run the Corps of Engineers.
[Page: H778] GPO's PDF
That is the agency that builds the levees that keeps low-lying communities from flooding; that dredges channels so that inland commerce can take place; that dredges the channels for oceangoing ships; that agency that helps people with their sewage problems, with their drainage problems. He said that the administration's budget did not have enough money in it for him to do his job.
He went on to say that he felt like the Office of Management and Budget intentionally low-balled that to try to make the President's budget look a little closer to being balanced than it really was, and knowing that Congress would put the money back in the budget . He even went so far as to say that the Constitution of the United States under article I gives Congress the power to decide where the money goes, not the administration. The administration is certainly correct to request a budget , but it is Congress' job to pass a budget .
For telling the truth, my friend Mike Parker was fired. He was actually asked to resign. And what is really interesting about this town of half truths is that it was just 3 years ago on this very floor that a majority of my colleagues and I voted to impeach a sitting President because we felt like he had lied under oath. But when someone just last week tells the truth, he is asked to resign.
Mr. Speaker, I think that is a shame, and I think it is a horrible reflection on our Nation. I think it is a horrible reflection on this administration. Mike Parker did the right thing. This town is awash in debt because we are awash in half truths. Finally, somebody came forward and said this is the way to do it. You gave me a job to do. I have left my farm in Mississippi, I have left my business in Mississippi, my wife has left a successful accounting firm to come here all so we could serve our country. I have told you the truth, and my reward for telling the truth is to fire me.
[Time: 14:15]
Mr. Speaker, it is a shame. So for Mike Parker and all of the folks out there who tell the truth, I want to say I am grateful, the people in Mississippi. I deeply regret that the President of the United States did the wrong thing; but Mike, I know you did the right thing.
Just recently there was a book published called ``The Dereliction of Duty.'' I am told it was written by a historian at West Point who researched the early stages of the Vietnam War, and makes a very compelling case that the Joint Chiefs of Staff at that time knew that President Johnson had no intention of winning that war. And what he cites as a dereliction of duty is those generals and those admirals at the time, knowing that the President had no clear plan for victory, were not willing to risk their careers and step forward and say ``This is wrong. I am not going to let the kids in my command die,'' in what they knew to be a failed effort.
Mike Parker had the guts to say this is wrong and point out the way that it should be and tell the truth. So, Mike, they may have had a dereliction of duty, but you did not. For the sake of myself and again speaking on behalf of the people of Mississippi, we are proud of you, Mike. God bless you.
I guess Mr. Parker would agree that it was Congress' fault eh?
What is characterized as a cut in DC by liberals is an increase in money that is less than the increase hoped for. It could actually be a true cut--a decrease in money--but in most cases it is an actual increase, just not as big of an increase as liberals would like. I think they call this economic hooliganism "baseline budgeting."
I am happy to have taken this opportunity to place the blame squarely on the Left Wing extremists in the Democratic party where it belongs.
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