Posted on 08/18/2005 6:34:27 AM PDT by GPBurdell
Exactly it is revenue neutral, which means it still sucks out the same number of dollars out of our economy. But the question is and always will be, if people still pay the same amount in taxes, where is all this new money generated to lower the costs of all goods and increase everyones paycheck????
Apples and oranges. I work to achieve. My achievement is taxed, and that's fundamentally immoral and illogical if you believe the right to life is axiomatic. So by my reasoning, taxing achievement is involuntary. In fact, it's theft at the point of a gun.
And what are you trying to achieve??? You just want to achieve so your bank sends you a statement with a big number on it??? Or do you want to acheive to actually buy something with your money. There is really no more freedom whether the government taxes it on the way in or taxes it on the way out. It's theft anyway you look at it, but if you want to think there is some kind of significant distinction, I am not going to stop you.
You've been pointed to a LOT of good economic analysis over the last several years, Rongie. Too bad you haven't taken advantage of them, but here's some more:
How Cost of Ownership is Greatly Helped by the FairTax -
http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/TaxNotesRebuttal.pdf
A Realtor's view on the FairTax and home ownership:
http://www.fairtax.org/pdfs/FairTax_booms_homeownershp.pdf
Benefits to homebuilders:
http://www.fairtax.org/pdfs/Homebuilders_will_benefit.pdf
Once you've digested these let us know and we'll get you some more.
Yep pigface I have. You can't explain it in your own words because there is no real argument against what I said so you send me to some propaganda ridden web site. You can use smoke and mirrors and talk about compliance costs all you want, but the fair tax numbers are off by well over $1 Trillion. This money is created out of thin air by assuming both employees get to keep all their money and the employer gets to lower his prices. It is all a lie, face it.
I haven't even gotton a book yet. Everybody around Atlanta is sold out.
Why is it you refuse to see that I will have the choice to buy something retail? Some of us achieve to achieve. Money is simply one reward. Enlightenment is the end reward. When people interrupt enlightenment with penalty on achievement, then we are all the lesser.
Actually, that's not too hard to understand. The same number of dollars in taxes come from many more taxpayers (consumption base is much wider that present income tax base), therefore on the average taxes drop for most people.
Even those souls who think the "pay no taxes" actually do pay taxes in the form of payroll taxes and artificially increased prices on everything they buy at present. Most of them will do better under the FairTax.
In addition to those things, the FairTax will greatly expand our economy allowing economic improvement for many - perhaps even most - people. The upshot is that there will be more money "out there" - even for crotchety old homebuilders who love the income tax because they think they've got it made.
Oh, and some of the lowered costs come out of the very elimination of the income tax and the artificial increase in prices it causes,.
Huh? Most people are trying to create wealth. They don't spend. Once they have created wealth or have disposable income THEN they spend. Let me KEEP the money I make. You can have SOME of the money I spend, when I choose to spend it. BIG difference.
Thanks. I'm having fun stopping in various bookstores and striking up conversations about the FT.
Really, you have a choice??? Where can a buy food tax free??? I suppose you could live on the street and not pay rent. Even mortgae interest is taxed unless you can find someone to offer a sub-prime rate. Virtually every good and all services will be subject to tax. I have no clue how you think you can avoid the sales tax without cheating the system.
No real argument??? Good joke.
The first link I gave you just above was done by a man who is both an economist and has an advanced degree in Taxation. It is an analysis that I would not attempt to duplicate and one that you certainly cannot refute. It is quite extensive and quite good.
The only thing you can attempt to do is do as you have done - dig in your heels and say "... there ain't no such thing ...", etc.
You might actually profit by learning a little. BTW a lot of economists believe the compliance costs are MORE than a trillion dollars at present. That mostly disappears as a cost under the FairTax.
20% now or 20% later, not that big of a difference. Besides, most people have very little disposable income, so it is no choice, they must spend the money to pay for housing, clothing, food, education, and other things.
Write your congressman and Senators. Tell them you want the Fair Tax. You've got to take action.
Exactly what I tell the NRSC every time they beg.
I never said I would. I said I would have the choice. Maybe you like the government taking your money (i.e. you life) before you ever see it, but I do not. I also oppose having to report my income to anyone not of my choosing. Forcing me to do that is an invasion of privacy and blatantly against the 4th Amendment.
He can buy a used house and not pay rent. Voluntary choices.
I have seen this from you before and I ignored it, thinking surely nonbody can be that stupid, especially someone who claims to be in business. You are also probably someone who also thinks you are making money by not paying taxes. (I hate being that way but tolerance has its limits.)
What is pocketed by employees is not the embedded taxes, those you yourself benefit from by the elimination of them, it is the elimination of withholding taxes that benefit the employees. It is their money which you withhold from them and send to the government. You know, that money you are required by the government to withhold from their paychecks and send to the government to cover the employees' SS and Medicare. I suppose you could put the money in your own pocket and continue to give them the net they now get. Its your choice if you can get away with it. Most will give the employees their money, which will increase their take home pay and give them more to spend. It is like your giving them a raise but the government pays for it, a routine you should be familiar with. Shall I slow down? Is that too fast for you?
Despite your erroneous assumption that you are making money by playing the system, you probably pay taxes on some things anyway. Do you have interest income? Do you have any capital gains? Do your write offs cover all your taxes?
There are many things that businesses now pay taxes on which will be eliminated by converting completely to the NRST even if it is only on their profits. Those taxes are embedded taxes, taxes companies pay but must recover the cost of like they do other costs.
They put it in their selling prices which other businesses pay when they buy from them. With those gone, they will have the choice of adding the amount of those absent taxes to their profits or to lower their prices and make the same margins.
It is probable that competition will cause most to lower their prices and keep their normal profits. Carry that through multiple levels of the supply chain and you end up with the approximate 22% cost reduction realized by the elimination of the embedded taxes. Therefore, what you pay for, from rent to office supplies, should be lower. If not, shop around. Competition will offer you a lower price elsewhere.
After this reduction in your costs you choose how you adapt to it.
Now if you don't understand that you need a keeper.
I can see how you think your business is threatened by sales tax on new homes. I can't, for the life of me, see how you can believe the above statement.
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