State Weighs 2 Bills Requiring Bullet Marking

LA Times ^ | July 3, 2005 | Jordan Rau, Times Staff Writer

[echoBoomer]

..."This is nothing fancy, just simple technology," he said on a recent day, after proudly showing that the identification numbers on several slugs remained readable after the bullets were fired into a bulletproof vest.

With 45% of the state's homicides unsolved in 2003, the most recent data available, the California Legislature is moving ahead with two potentially landmark measures that would require that identifying marks be embedded on projectiles from guns.

One proposal would have all bullets sold in the state marked during manufacture with codes. The other would mandate that guns be equipped with stamping mechanisms that would hammer telling marks onto every cartridge fired. That could allow investigators to link the cartridge to the gun's purchaser even if they could not find the firearm.

The approaches depart from law enforcement tactics elsewhere in the country, which have focused on creating computer registries of fired bullets. Those allow for investigators to match projectiles from different crimes, linking ones committed with the same weapon.

The issue of marking ammunition has become the most contested law enforcement topic in Sacramento this year. One of the bills has split California's law enforcement community and infuriated the nation's ammunition manufacturers, weapons sellers and firearms enthusiasts, including the National Rifle Assn. Several police groups in California are also opposed...

[R. Scott]

The technology probably doesn't work and it'd cost millions to implement.

The anti-Constitution mob doesn’t really care if it works or not. This part of your statement I heartily agree with – “…it'd cost millions to implement.” The cost has to be passed on to the consumer.

[BulletBobCo]

[Arkie2]

That's precisely the point. They don't care if the technology works at all. They want to come at gun control from another angle by making ammo prohibitively expensive. If this succeeds in Kali it will be copied in other states.

[goldstategop]

Backdoor gun ban. The Los Angeles Times doesn't cite one piece of evidence ammo ID has ever solved a real world crime. Reading between the lines though, its enough to figure out they're happy that gun owners are being screwed. The measures making their way to the Governor's desk have nothing to do with helping forensic investigations and a lot to do with the anti-gun zealots looking for a way it can keep guns out of the hands of the Little People. Thanks to a marriage of technology and politics they may have just found the ticket.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[FreedomPoster]

The Death of 1000 Cuts of an inalienable right proceeds apace.

[FreedomPoster]

Ping.

[goldstategop]

The ammo industry will abandon California than retool their factories just to make a bunch of useless ammo. Never mind our police and military will be put at a disadvantage. The long-term aim of the Left is to convince people they don't have to defend themselves, period. I've never met a Leftist who wasn't a pacifist.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[magslinger]

The technology probably doesn't work and it'd cost millions to impliment.

That's the whole point, if they can't make our guns illegal, make them too expensive.

[AlBondigas]

anti-gun zealots

I think you give 'em too much credit

They're well intentioned, but F***ing STOOOOPID !

[dhuffman@awod.com]

Vote with your pocketbook and buy cheap unmarked ammo now. I have a thousand rounds for each caliber gun that I own. Scroom!

[kAcknor]

They're f'ing morons.

No, they aren't. They are rational, dedicated, mostly intelligent pompous f'ing bas***ds.

They know exactly what they are doing. Limiting the firearms available for sale to the public, and raising the price of ammunition to outrageous levels.

As frosting on their cake, they will outlaw millions of current firearms and stockpiles of ammunition. Anyone caught with them after a given date (Oh those wonderful registration lists) will be branded a felon and unable to own a gun ever again.

Morons? OK, maybe. But not stupid, not at all.

[goldstategop]

Its exactly the point - if you drive up the costs of producing ammo, you basically make gun ownership unaffordable. That's why this... if you leave the smokescreen rhetoric aside, is to all practical intents and purposes a ban on private gun ownership in this state. Just don't expect the politicians to acknowledge these so-called ammo ID proposals do that effectively and might I add - quietly too. After their defeat a quarter of a century ago on a ballot measure, the Left has achieved its aim incrementally. That's from their point of view, progress.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[goldstategop]

California will have a thriving black market in guns and ammo. If you think folks bringing in illegal drugs in this country have been creative, just wait til you see what the firearms guys do. The fallout is gonna make Prohibition look like a Sunday tea affair.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[DJ Taylor]

"The technology probably doesn't work and it'd cost millions to impliment."

Of course it won't work and the Democrats know it. Their aim is to cause the manufacturers of weapons and ammunition to withdraw their products from the California market. With no weapons and ammunition available on the legal market for law abiding citizens to purchase, the only people in California who can arm themselves will be the criminals, as they buy their weapons and ammunition from the black market.

Criminals make up a large part of the Democrat constituency, so the Democrats are just paying off the people who keep them in office.

Am I just being sarcastic, or could there be some truth here?

[mmercier]

>> focused on creating computer registries of fired bullets. Those allow for investigators to match projectiles from different crimes, linking ones committed with the same weapon.

That would seem the logical thing to do, unless making ammunition prohibitively expensive for the average law abiding citizen is your goal.

Then only the people who "need" guns, and are able to make the right connections, and afford them will bear arms...

I feel safer already.

[cpdiii]

If the bullet is marked I can remove the mark or buy bullets out of state. If the chamber has a mechanism that will stamp the case I can simply polish it out or fill it in depending on how it is made. This of course will be illegal and I am sure all of the criminals will dutifully follow the law and not do this. If we pass a law that makes bank robbery illegal I am sure the criminals will stop robbing banks. Opps, I forgot there already is a law against robbing banks. Perhaps criminals will not obey the law. Do criminals rob banks in California or have they made that illegal there?

This is what is really happening. A list of numbers registered with the State of California is a list of guns that will be confiscated from law abiding citizens. But this really is not a problem is it? I am sure all the criminals will also turn their firearms in when the state comes and confiscates them. The government of California is so enlightened and caring.

If I am not mistaken a criminal is someone whom violates the law. I am sure California can make violating the law illegal and solve this minor problem with their compassionate effort to remove the evil firearms from us evil citizens who possess firearms in accordance with our constitutional rights under the second amendment. Silly little piece of paper called The Constitution.

"FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS"

[Cobra64]

"One proposal would have all bullets sold in the state marked during manufacture with codes."

Huh? These jerks are clueless. So the 12,000 rounds I have here in NC won't work in CA? Or... I guess they've never heard of bullet molds, lead, powder, primers and casings.

I have a better idea, mark these meatheads on their forhead with the letter "A" for a$$wholes.

[heleny]

“…it'd cost millions to implement.” The cost has to be passed on to the consumer.

And all CA taxpayers, who will have to pay for the technology for all the police.

These expensive measures, if passed, will leave less money for hiring police officers. Obviously, the police will then howl for higher taxes and a higher budget.

[Cobra64]

the only people in California who can arm themselves will be the criminals, as they buy their weapons and ammunition from the black market.

There are many alternatives that the anti-gunners haven't a clue about. Drive to WA or NV and load up. Or I can ship a few thousand rounds to my kids living in CA.

[kAcknor]

California will have a thriving black market in guns and ammo.

Without a doubt! My guess is that much of the trade will be from the same people shipping drugs and the customers will be the much the same as their current ones also.

As the law abiding comply (or try too), the criminals will of course ignore this law as they do others. It's a proven fact that crime will soar as the criminal elements find far fewer armed targets to deal with.

The failure of this insane plan will lead to the call that 'Poor, Gun Crime Ridden California' is at the mercy of 49 other states without such enlightened laws, and we should do something about it NOW!

[calex59]

They are full of it when they say tests show the serial number is still readable after the bullet has been fired. This is just another BS move to keep gun ownership down in CA. Pick up your cases or use a revolver to get around the case serial number. Pull the bullets and recast them to get around the bullet serial number. What a bunch of maroons we have in CA legislature. If AHHHHHHHHnold signs this one, he is not a conservative!(of course we already know this.)

[DJ Taylor]

"Drive to WA or NV and load up. Or I can ship a few thousand rounds to my kids living in CA."

Yes, that is the second part of the plan. Of course it would be against the law for Californians to procure their weapons and ammunition out of state. When you break this law you will become a criminal, and as a fellow criminal, you will be fully qualified to join the Democrat Party.

[The Electrician]

With 45% of the state's homicides unsolved in 2003

Wonder what percentage of the state's rapes go unsolved... How about registering all male DNA in the state - and all visitors must show a valid state DNA identification card upon entering the state, or else donate a "sample" before permitting admission (unless, of course, you are an illegal immigrant, in which case no problem). After all, all men are potential criminal rapists, right? That would certainly help the government, which is the only criterion that matters under our living Constitution, right? < /sarcasm>

[DJ Taylor]

"With 45% of the state's homicides unsolved in 2003",

Wouldn't the millions be better spent if California invested in more and better training for their Homicide Detectives?

[Flint]

Can you imagine how big my Glock 19 would have to be to have a device to "hammer" an identifying mark on the cartridge?

If these folks weren't serious this would be funny.

[Vaquero]

Incrementalism....the Leftist main stay.

[river rat]

The problem with stockpiling -- is the bastards are almost certainly going to set a date, after which - possession of unmarked ammo is a felony...

Conviction for a felony - will certainly lead to confiscation of ALL firearms and ammo..

The camel's nose in already under the tent --- time to blow if off.

As much as my wife loves living here in Kalifornicate -- we will sell out and move if this bill passes..

Semper Fi

[.38sw]

The problem with stockpiling -- is the bastards are almost certainly going to set a date, after which - possession of unmarked ammo is a felony...

Unless they've changed the bill, it reads that possession in your home is legal. The kicker is that the minute you take it outside your home, for instance to the range, you're in violation of the law.

[magslinger]

This sort of thing has been going on at least since 1879 when the state of Tennessee passed a law against "junk guns", for the purpose of keeping them out of the hands of blacks. Keep guns out of the hands of all but the wealthy, and criminals will target the poor. Less lucrative, but much safer.

[mvpel]

If this passes, I hope the ammo manufacturers have the guts to "bite the bullet" and refuse all ammo sales to California, including law enforcement officers.

[umgud]

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars. (THR)

[Natchez Hawk]

Excellent idea--but impractical since I doubt they can get the 2nd Amendment on something as small as a bullet with it being legible

[R. Scott]

Yep. If they get rid of guns they will try to get rid of the ammo.

[R. Scott]

As if the gun grabbers care.

[Petruchio]

http://www.corbins.com/

Problem solved.

[Highest Authority]

Insanity is alive and well in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia!!

[Arkie2]

Bill Clinton's DNA sample has already been deposited. He's on the leading edge in this issue.

[cpdiii]

"Can you imagine how big my Glock 19 would have to be to have a device to "hammer" an identifying mark on the cartridge?"

It could be done rather eaisly. Striations in the chamber would mark the case when it expands during firing and would leave a code on the case rather like a bar code. I could also eaisly polish it out and render it useless.

[Squantos]

This is more junk PC science BS . Just like that imposed on the state of MD with the sample of fired brass with every new handgun.....abandoned as a waste of time by that state. Same as this will after a gazillion duckets are wasted by the polidiots pandering to the presstitutes and their socialist handlers........!

Doom on those who play to such a crowd....

[B4Ranch]

Bury the cache until the Tea party starts.

[coloradan]

I guess they've never heard of bullet molds, lead, powder, primers and casings.

They've heard of them all right... they'll become illegal after some date in 2006. Probably July 4th, knowing these bastards.

[coloradan]

Those things will become criminal acts. Just as if you mailed machine guns or cocaine.

[paul51]

A thinly veiled scheme to halt the shipment of ammunition and firearms into the state.

[paul51]

The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department was able to identify serial numbers on 21 of 22 bullets it tested and recovered.

Yeah, right. Try firing into something other than a tank of water

[Eastbound]

Coroner: 'Well, let's see now. Dig out that slug and let's see the marking.'
Assistant: '(Slice . . dice . .) Got it, Chief. Hey! It's marked!'
Coroner: 'Okay, read me the number and lets see where it was sold.'
Assistant: 'It doesn't have a number, Chief. It has the name of the victim stamped on it!'
Coroner: 'Whoa!' Looks like bullet marking is a two-way street. How stoopid can we get?'
Assistant: 'Don't ask!'

[Nebr FAL owner]

They actually might since they have stated that it would be to expensive to retro fit the ammo plants & the local police & sheriffs dept. dont make up the difference . Also if the politicians exempt the cops & themselves sue the bozo's for equal protection under the law.

[Nebr FAL owner]

Another possibility is to make serial numbered cartridges that have the serial number of firearms that are issued to the various state & local LEO's. Imagine the surprise when LAPD patrol officer Murphy & LA Sheriff's Deputy Jones find themselves being asked how shell casings with the serial number of their service sidearm wound up at a drive-by shooting. Or better still when it is Deputy chiefs that are getting to play 20 questions.

[Nebr FAL owner]

Not 2nd Amendment but the ID number of the gun issued to the chief of police or the county sheriff or commanding officer of the CHP.& if you really want to cause chaos find out the id numbers of all guns issued to the cops or the serial number series of the ammo issued to the police & make your own with their numbers.