Here's the cure for this STUPIDITY .... and it's ALMOST TIME ... :(
JMNSHO
Keep your powder dry!!
Posted on 06/05/2005 1:07:43 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
SACRAMENTO – A novel proposal to etch identifying serial numbers on handgun ammunition sold in California narrowly passed the Senate yesterday, although supporters conceded the legislation remains a work in progress.
The measure, Senate Bill 357, passed on a bare-majority, 21-14 vote that split along party lines, with Democrats in support. The vote sent the bill to the Assembly, which has long been the decisive battleground for gun-control initiatives.
A related measure, to require manufacturers to equip some semiautomatic handguns with components that would place an identifying code on spent cartridges, passed the Assembly 41-38 and was sent to the Senate.
The Senate measure is sponsored by Attorney General Bill Lockyer but so far has drawn tepid support from the balance of the state's law enforcement community. It would link purchasers to handgun ammunition through an electronic swipe of a driver license at the point of sale.
Manufacturers say the proposal would force drastic changes to a high-volume, low-margin business. The required modifications to the manufacturing process, the companies warned, would either drive them out of business or send consumer prices skyward.
Sen. Joseph Dunn, a Garden Grove Democrat who introduced the bill for Lockyer, said he is working with law enforcement groups to resolve concerns about how to treat a massive existing inventory, possession of unmarked ammunition in homes and an exemption sought for shooting ranges.
Sen Bill Morrow, R-Oceanside, illustrated the magnitude of the potential ammunition stockpile in the state. He has used about half of a substantial supply his father left when he died in 1981, Morrow said.
"If I plan right, I figure it will get me through the rest of my life," Morrow said.
Morrow and other opponents questioned whether the proposal, which has never been attempted anywhere else, was technologically feasible. Aides to Lockyer said manufacturers place individual serial numbers on many different consumer products.
The Assembly bill, AB 352 by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, would apply only to future production of easily concealable semiautomatic handguns that have not passed a state safety test.
Now, if only the California Legislature could muster up some courage and balance the budget. While 'Rome Burns' the idiots in Sacramento spend their time trying to get driver's licenses for illegals and take our guns away.
If this passes, the entire industry should follow Barrett's lead and pull out of the CA market entirely. No civilian sales, no LEO sales - let's see how fast the legislature backpedals when they discover nobody will sell their bodyguards or the police weapons OR ammo.
For this reason, I hope it passes, because it *will* wake up a lot of manufacturers. "Hm, we can either not sell in CA and still make a lot of money selling to the other 49 states; or we can spend a *ton* of money for little to no return."
If this passes, CA is a lost cause. Fall back to Arizona, regroup, and come back after the CA government collapses because they have no ammo.
Here's the cure for this STUPIDITY .... and it's ALMOST TIME ... :(
JMNSHO
Keep your powder dry!!
Bad. ..Very bad news!
If California colapses, what good will it do to be in Arizona? The California border with Arizona, Nevada and Oregon would be the next entry point for illegals into the nation.
Once those states go, New Mexico, Utah, Washington...
Look, we either take a stand today, or it's over.
Simple. They will make possession a felony after some prescribed date. Use it or hand it over to the local police department. No compensation will be offered. If you get caught with unmarked ammo after the cut off date, you become a felon and lose your rights to possess any firearms.
The idea is to regroup, rearm, and reorganize - then go back into CA after the collapse and take it back.
The California law enforcement and elitists will not be subject to these tyrannical regulations. The common citizen (or should I say peasants) there won't be able to lawfully buy ammunition for their handguns in the future.
I suspect reloaders will have to buy boxes of bullets stamped with serial numbers and swipe a driver's license to identify you as the purchaser of that serial number range.
You're right. That's precisely how it'll be handled.
Exactly why the firearms industry should write off CA - the LE market in CA isn't enough to justify selling in CA by itself. It's civilian sales that drive the market, there and everywhere. The elitists would be subject to it by default - if there are no firearms available for purchase by them, they won't get any more.
Also, you bear out my point about retreat, reorganize, regroup and take it back later.
How convenient!
The legislation is a "work in progress" ---
There is already a little game like that played in California. California requires purchase of an "approved" gun lock with a firearm. On my last visit to El Cajon Gun Exchange, the employees complained that they had guns purchased by customers, authorized by the background check and past the "waiting time" delivery date, but they could not deliver the merchandise to the customers. Why? There was a shortage of "approved" gun locks. Some customers actually had to pay for another NICS check and wait for the waiting period more than once because of the "problem" getting "approved" gun locks.
This game could be played again by making "approved" ammo with the markings a very limited supply item. Ammo prices will become exorbitant with the limited supply and higher cost to manufacture. If they play the confiscation card, California gun owners will be essentially disarmed.
If the earthquakes, wackos and mortgage prices don't get you, there's this.
Read through the 12000 series of California laws. These are the weapons laws. In nearly every case there is an exemption for law enforcement. Calfornia doesn't believe in the principles of equal protection for all citizens. Law enforcement is always superior to ordinary humans in California law.
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
California ignores this element of the 14th Amendment.
This must be the most egregious legislation the democrats have written in quite a while. Lockyer had gubenatorial ambitions. I guess he thinks this will be a winner with the voters?
Those are good questions. I imagine they would make it illegal for California citizens to own unmarked ammunition. As for whether self-loading is allowed, I'm not sure. I've not gotten into that myself, and I'm not aware if it's legal or not. My guess at this point, is that it is still legal, but I wouldn't but money on it.
I don't see California colapsing in the typical sense. It's a wealthy state if it's leaders just put their minds to it.
What I see happening is separatists moving into positions of power, and encouraging the populace to move away from the nation, because California pays out more taxes than it gets back.
Right now we have a separatist as Mayor of L.A. The Lt Governor is also a separatist. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a number of people in the Legislature were too.
Look, whatever the ploy used, it's going to sound too good for the illiterate masses to pass up. Leaders can always come up with a good sounding reason to support evil, if they want to.
I'd hardly call it progress. LOL
Nuts! What will the authorities do with folks that have boxes of reloads prior to the new law? Expiration dates?
Register your existing bullets and ammunition today and we will not arrest you later. I guess new law will really work with the gangs too. Is there something in the water in Cali?
LOL! Me neither, but that's what the supporters call it... "a work in progress."
I find this entire idea wholly disturbing. Passed by a party line vote. Thank God, no GOP signed on.
Yep. Sounds like another proposal for more tax dollars rather than REALLY trying to curb violence. Big surprise.
I'm sorry, did I miss anything on this thread, I had to go to the bathroom to deposit "a work in progress."
This regulation is unenforceable and everyone knows it. There is no way that all ammo in the hands of citizens can be checked for legality. This bill doesn't have a chance, IMHO.
You missed plenty...lol.
Which is, of course, the REAL agenda.
I read on another thread about this bill that posessing "un-registered" ammo by 2007 will be a crime.
Yeah, it's always a good idea to appease. It worked well against Hitler.
Oh, but it is. You don't bother to check the populace for compliance. It's just that -- bingo! -- when you pick somebody for something else, here's another nice, juicy felony you can stick him with.
Like so much unreasonable legislation, many of us have too much at stake to break it, but criminals do not. It's another "disarming good citizens" measure.
Carolyn
We are retiring & moving to Oregon. Cali can kiss goodbye 100% of the sales & income tax we pay. And, despite Oregon's liberal reputation, they have shall-issue, no sales tax, and property tax limitation. Plus, property costs are much lower than CA.
Property value is higher.
What is needed is MORE GUN SHOWS in Az,Nv and Or with unmarked, and cheaper, ammo!
Won't work. Retired CA government, town, county workers will just move east to avoid the social havoc, economic collapse, poor service and high taxes. Since they're retired, they'll have time, desire for power, and the 'experience' necessary to run for local government, which you won't have because you'll be working to pay federal taxes to bail out the California state workers pension program.
So, serf, get back to tending you field.
Does this outlaw frangible bullets since nothing would survive upon which a serial number could be read? Or are frangible bullets already illegal?
Ding Ding Ding!!! Here's a cigar for ya, Prion...don't smoke it in California, though.
Does the California legislature actually think that they can convict someone based upon a serial number on a spent cartridge? Haven't they heard about something called "chain of evidence". All a defense attorney or suspect has to say is that "my ammo was stolen". 'POOF'! No case!
Does this bill cover IEDs?
This is the exit knell for all cowards to cede Califronia to the anti-gunners and move to another state. Good bye, have fun trashing Cali to all your fair weather friends.
Califronia=California
Yes it is feasible, but it wouldn't solve anything.
If a criminal used a stolen gun, it would imprint the SN# of the stolen gun on the spent cartridge. Brass catchers solve that - and the brass would only be tracible to the stolen gun.
If cartridges were imprinted with a SN# at the factory, the brass could be traced to the purchaser, but ammo gets stolen too and brass catchers would also solve that.
It doesn't do anything but raise the cost of ammo, annoy legitmate gun owners and force them to give up more liberty.
Why dont they require the airline industry to provide transportation in UFOs as well?
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