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Lawmakers advance competing versions of bullet ID bills
sacbee ^ | 6-2-05

Posted on 06/02/2005 7:30:22 PM PDT by LouAvul

SACRAMENTO (AP) - Dueling proposals to identify handgun bullets to help police solve shootings were approved by state lawmakers Thursday, despite concerns the requirements are impractical or would harm law-abiding citizens.

Ammunition manufacturers would be required to laser-cut each bullet with a serial number under the Senate bill, while the Assembly version requires guns to stamp identification numbers on bullet casings each time they are fired.

"With a simple magnifying glass (police) can read that identifying number ... and determine who purchased that ammunition," said Sen. Joseph Dunn, D-Garden Grove, who is carrying the Senate version. "This is a tremendous benefit for law enforcement."

The Senate sent the measure to the Assembly on a 21-14 vote, while the Assembly proposal by Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, passed 41-37 despite heavy opposition from gun groups. Both passed by one vote.

Ammunition manufacturers said that Dunn's bill will either force them to abandon the lucrative California market or force them to install unaffordable technology to mark the 8 billion bullets they make each year.

The bill would punish anyone possessing unmarked ammunition outside their home after July 2007, though Dunn said he is working with law enforcement to amend the bill so owners could use older bullets at firing ranges.

"A law abiding citizen has nothing to fear," said Sen. Jack Scott, D-Pasadena, comparing the markings to the use of fingerprints or DNA in crime solving.

Dunn's bill would require purchasers to pay up to a halfpenny per bullet to fund record-keeping by the state Department of Justice on every handgun-caliber bullet made or sold in California. Vendors would pay up to $50 a year to register. Rifle ammunition would be exempted, though some calibers are used in both handguns and long guns.

(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: ab352; bang; banglist; california; callegislation; joedunn; paulkoretz; sb357

1 posted on 06/02/2005 7:30:23 PM PDT by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul

One more reason I wont ever return to Kalifornia


2 posted on 06/02/2005 7:31:57 PM PDT by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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To: LouAvul
The bill would punish anyone possessing unmarked ammunition outside their home after July 2007, though Dunn said he is working with law enforcement to amend the bill so owners could use older bullets at firing ranges.

The Nazis didn't have ANYTHING on California Democommie legislators...

3 posted on 06/02/2005 7:32:53 PM PDT by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
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To: LouAvul
"Gee officer, must have been a manufacturing error. You can see right here the OTHER bullets in the ammo box have your mark on them"

This is called the ACT OF GOD DEFENSE. This is the one to use when you sideswipe a parked car "Gee officer, I sneezed".

The Dems in the California legislature must use so much dope they can't think even two steps down the road anymore.

4 posted on 06/02/2005 7:34:31 PM PDT by muawiyah (q)
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To: an amused spectator
"Ammunition manufacturers would be required to laser-cut each bullet with a serial number under the Senate bill.."

Hopefully they won't be using assault lasers.

5 posted on 06/02/2005 7:37:05 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: LouAvul
Dunn's bill would require purchasers to pay up to a halfpenny per bullet to fund record-keeping by the state Department of Justice on every handgun-caliber bullet made or sold in California.

.005 x 500 = 2.50 tax on a brick of .22 ammo.

Sounds like time for a tea party in Kalifornistan...

6 posted on 06/02/2005 7:37:18 PM PDT by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
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To: muawiyah
The Dems in the California legislature must use so much dope they can't think even two steps down the road anymore.

This is just incredibly stupid. Wonder if Arnold will sign the legislation if it passes?

7 posted on 06/02/2005 7:38:04 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: LouAvul

"stupid is as stupid does"


8 posted on 06/02/2005 7:38:42 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Hopefully they won't be using assault lasers.

Wonder how you mark the ammo on a plasma laser rifle (40 watt range)?

9 posted on 06/02/2005 7:38:45 PM PDT by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
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To: LouAvul
Democrats are idiots. This bill would effectively disarm law-abiding Californians by forbidding them from using non-ID ammo in their guns AFTER 2005. Its banning private firearms ownership via the backdoor. Despite their deceptive maneuvers, the Democrats were able to pass the ID bill by a single vote. Gun-grabber Arnold is going to sign this one. Its the end of an era in California.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
10 posted on 06/02/2005 7:42:17 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: an amused spectator
"Wonder how you mark the ammo on a plasma laser rifle (40 watt range)?"

I don't know. I suggest the California Legislature look into it...;-)

11 posted on 06/02/2005 7:42:35 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: LouAvul

This wil show the gang bangers! If they murder someone with illegal ammo they will be in big trouble!


12 posted on 06/02/2005 7:44:45 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Get all the incumbents out of politics!)
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To: LouAvul
the Assembly version requires guns to stamp identification numbers on bullet casings each time they are fired.

Any gun that doesn't have the ability to self-stamp would be an unapproved firearm.

13 posted on 06/02/2005 7:45:01 PM PDT by umgud (FR, NASCAR, NRA, GOP)
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To: NewHampshireDuo
Yes. He already signed a bill banning .50 caliber hand-guns so we know his record on the RKBA. Gun firms are just going to abandon the California market should this bill become law. They don't need the hassle of a silly procedure that makes ammo more expensive - and that doesn't begin to take into account the tax imposed to fund scribing an ID into every bullet.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
14 posted on 06/02/2005 7:45:17 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: LouAvul
It's never about the "criminal". As stupid as these slug legislators are, they know that criminals don't care, "unmarked ammo" will always be available. This is a poorly disguised attempt to log the names of the law abiding. Our rights to anonymous firearms possession are constantly under attack.
15 posted on 06/02/2005 7:47:17 PM PDT by n230099
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To: umgud
Any firearm of which the Democrats disapprove makes YOU a criminal. That's why their claim the bill won't affect law-abiding gun owners is pure horse pucky. Its confiscation by the back door.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
16 posted on 06/02/2005 7:47:30 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: NewHampshireDuo
This is just incredibly stupid. Wonder if Arnold will sign the legislation if it passes?

Yes it is stupid. Arnold is smart enought to see through this one. One talk show host suggested that this will usher in the era of homocide by shotgun. (Any law to mark each pellet?)

Or the possibility that criminals will all take up home loading?

Or that criminals will only use "stolen" ammo?

Of course if this is just a ploy to make guns and ammo more costly in CA it will work. However what about the ACLU and the case that could be made that this is profiling of people for income and that only the wealthy may defend themselves. (Shades of the post Civil War South?

17 posted on 06/02/2005 7:47:40 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: LouAvul
Ammunition manufacturers would be required to laser-cut each bullet with a serial number under the Senate bill, while the Assembly version requires guns to stamp identification numbers on bullet casings each time they are fired.

Let me make a prediction: There'll be a compromise, they will require both!

18 posted on 06/02/2005 7:48:05 PM PDT by MRMEAN ("On the Internet nobody knows that you're a dog")
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To: LouAvul

Lunacy.


19 posted on 06/02/2005 7:48:35 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: n230099
Naw, they don't care who owns guns. It's not about guns anyway. Rather, their motive is to disarm law abiding people so that their big contributors among the narcotrafficantes can operate without fear of some citizen chasing them out of the neighborhoods.

What was it the fictional Deep Throat said, "Follow the Money"?

20 posted on 06/02/2005 7:49:34 PM PDT by muawiyah (q)
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To: LouAvul

It's never about the "criminal". As stupid as these slug legislators are, they know that criminals don't care, "unmarked ammo" will always be available. This is a poorly disguised attempt to log the names of the law abiding. Our rights to anonymous firearms possession are constantly under attack.


21 posted on 06/02/2005 7:49:50 PM PDT by n230099
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To: n230099
Exactly! Gun-grabbers of the world rejoice! I can imagine the high fives over at Josh Sugarman's and James/Sarah Brady's gun control group. 2nd Amendment lovers, take note.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
22 posted on 06/02/2005 7:51:39 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Unfortunately, it's showing other gun grabbing states the way to ban guns without having to go through the pain of banning guns, if you know what I mean.


23 posted on 06/02/2005 7:55:02 PM PDT by Arkie2 (No, I never voted for Bill Clinton. I don't plan on voting Republican again!)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: LouAvul

I see they are still smoking crack.


25 posted on 06/02/2005 8:01:21 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Cloth or link. Happiness is a perfect trunion.)
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To: A_Conservative_Chinese
Its not about controlling criminals liberals are concered about; its about keeping the great unwashed under their thumbs.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
26 posted on 06/02/2005 8:01:24 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: A_Conservative_Chinese
So these law makers are brain dead.

OH, NO, they're not. These are the same crowd of revenooers who are thinking up creative ways to steal your money 24/7. They appear to be planning ahead for the time when the serfs are going to finally have had enough.

27 posted on 06/02/2005 8:04:38 PM PDT by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
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To: Arkie2
Unfortunately, it's showing other gun grabbing states the way to ban guns without having to go through the pain of banning guns, if you know what I mean.

You know, I just had a thought. The populace should make sure that the California National Guard is 100% compliant if this BS passes.

28 posted on 06/02/2005 8:06:25 PM PDT by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
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To: LouAvul

Yep, sounds great! Now, this is legislation that will teach those bastards of society, just what happens- when they mess with the Law!


29 posted on 06/02/2005 8:13:03 PM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: an amused spectator

Bullet manufacturers have already said they won't comply with this law because it's too expensive and they've made it clear they won't sell to Kali police depts because they don't want to violate state law. Either the Kali legislatures give their own police a waiver from this restriction or they effectively disarm them. If they get the waiver it leads to the ironic result that the police will have unrestricted access to unmarked ammo while the general populace will effectively be disarmed.


30 posted on 06/02/2005 8:14:05 PM PDT by Arkie2 (No, I never voted for Bill Clinton. I don't plan on voting Republican again!)
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To: LouAvul
I never thought I'd say this, but these days when I read about some law being passed to "help the police fight crime", I cringe. This is a very good example of what I'm talking about.

This will only impinge on law-abiding citizens--and in a major way, at that. Don't these dem-nuts know that a criminal will find 40 ways from Sunday of getting ammo that's not marked?

31 posted on 06/02/2005 8:21:12 PM PDT by basil (Exercise your Second Amendment--buy another gun today!)
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To: LouAvul

This almost makes as much sense as the SCOTUS decision on Stogner vs Calif.


32 posted on 06/02/2005 8:23:19 PM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: LouAvul

The Legislature would rather register bullets than child molesters.



(Pass the Advil!)


33 posted on 06/02/2005 8:25:08 PM PDT by Redcloak (We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singin' "whiskey for my men and beer for my horses!")
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To: Redcloak

LOL! It's so true!


34 posted on 06/02/2005 8:26:38 PM PDT by Arkie2 (No, I never voted for Bill Clinton. I don't plan on voting Republican again!)
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To: LouAvul

Every handloader in the state would become illegal...


35 posted on 06/02/2005 8:28:48 PM PDT by Swordmaker (tagline now open, please ring bell.)
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To: Swordmaker

And bullet casters.


36 posted on 06/02/2005 8:46:57 PM PDT by headstamp
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To: KC_for_Freedom

"Or that criminals will only use "stolen" ammo?"

DING DING DING - Johnny tell the audience what KC_for_Freedom has won...

What a wonderful way to frame someone. All ou need is a few rounds out of a box. The person might not ever even know they were missing until the police showed up at his door.

STUPID!

Personally I still have my 10 boxes of .40 Black Talons that I use in my carry weapon.


37 posted on 06/02/2005 8:52:48 PM PDT by Syntyr
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To: KC_for_Freedom


Of course the criminals, who are as a class smarter than a typical California legislator, (but then so is a typical brick) will have a brain-storm and drive to Nevada to get boxes of unmarked ammo at Wal-Mart.

The ONLY people this is going to affect are the law-abiding firearms owners.


38 posted on 06/02/2005 9:01:32 PM PDT by Fido969 (I see Red People!)
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To: Fido969
drive to Nevada

Some of the criminals will. And another group, those who already have a distribution system for illegal drugs, will have a new product to sell. Let's see, ID-free ammo for your 'bro's'. The mark-up's almost as good, and if you get caught the penalty's lighter.

Golly Gee! It's another bad guy full employment bill!!

39 posted on 06/02/2005 9:13:50 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg
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To: Syntyr

Yes, like all laws, this one will empty the ammo stocks of dealers as it goes into effect. I still am willing to bet the Terminator will not fall for this one.

I wonder how many pounds of ammo I can carry before my trailer is seriously over weight. Oh wait, I don't even have to go to California. my mistake. I just feel sorry for my fellow who do live in the Golden State.


40 posted on 06/02/2005 10:11:54 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: LouAvul
The bill would punish anyone possessing unmarked ammunition outside their home after July 2007, though Dunn said he is working with law enforcement to amend the bill so owners could use older bullets at firing ranges.

Mr. Dunn, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you are a dumb@$$!!

Exactly how do you propose we get said "unmarked" ammunition from our homes to the firing range, without it being "outside" our home.

Second, Mr. Dunn, were you aware that most, if not all ranges, do not allow the use of hollow point ammunition at their facilities? How then do you propose we comply with the law and expend our now illegal ammunition.

Mr. Dunn, if brains were leather, you wouldn't have enough to saddle a bug.

Best Regards

Sergio

41 posted on 06/03/2005 10:11:23 AM PDT by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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