Yukos CEO Found Guilty On Most Charges

RFE/RL ^ | 17 May 2005

[struwwelpeter]

Take your pick, two points of view on Russia:

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[Lukasz]

I see only pessimism and helplessness in these poems.

[GarySpFc]

I see only pessimism and helplessness in these poems.

When one is full of hate it blinds them to the truth.

[Lukasz]

hehe Although you missed the point, but it was a quite funny comment

[GarySpFc]

Putin works for own interests not Russian. You would understand this fact if you would support democracy. But you don’t.

You obviously are not a Christian, because if you were you would see things from a Christian perspective. Putin is committed Christian and a Russian nationalist.

[A. Pole]

Off topic but could you tell me, for which party in Poland would you vote if elections would be today?

Hard to tell - maybe LPR, but without much enthusiasm. I know whom I do not like - PIS[uar]. I am even worried about them as they are eager to play on the lowest emotions in pursuit of power.

[A. Pole]

Really, I’m curious when he expect to join the rest of Europe in this democratization process.

Europe is evolving toward militantly secularist and internationalist bureaucracy. You can judge the EUrocrats by the way they rule Bosnia.

[AdmSmith]

Mirror, mirror... LOL

Here is another witness:

UT Comment- Witnessing the big trial (from the street)
By Peter Lavelle
Published on May 16, 2005

Waiting for a verdict was a futile endeavor today, but seeing the crowd and media assembled was worth the effort.

The courthouse on Basmannaya is very unassuming. The street in which it is located is rather narrow. Thus, it was hard to determine how many people were there - but have no doubt it was packed on both sides

I decided to go around two in the afternoon. I expected that the proceedings would take time and wanted to be at the courthouse when the verdict was announced. On my way there, I saw people leaving. I thought maybe I had missed the announcement. The people leaving were both Khodorkovsky supporters and detractors - both adorning buttons and holding rolled up banners.

As I approached the courthouse, the police stopped me - like everyone else who attempted to join packed crowds on either side of the street.

The security presence was enormous - at one point I could only see police, with crowds blocked from view. Finally, I was allowed to move toward where I thought the courthouse was. For a while I thought I was on the wrong side of street. All the commotion, flags, and eventually pushing happened across from me.

Then, I saw some faces I knew from media -some of the usual suspects from the world of television. I immediately asked if there was any word. The reply was "not yet." Worried I couldn't get across to the street because of the police and traffic, I decided to step back a few steps to have a smoke. Then, someone said, Hey, Amsterdam is coming out." I turned around still holding my flaming Zippo to see that defense lawyer Amsterdam was not but 10 feet from me. I was on the right side of the street after all.

I didn't realize Amsterdam was so short. He said that only three counts of the indictment had been read and that the remaining would be read tomorrow. Amsterdam also said that everything the judge said pointed to guilty verdicts.

With the big news of the day no news, I started to chat with some of the folks on the street. The hardcore MK people were across the street. On my side of the street were media people and mostly middle-aged folks (or a group that has been described as middle-aged, post-Soviet intelligentsia). The majority of which were also pro-MK people. Once my accent was questioned, I was asked from where I came and my opinion of the trial. When I said I was from the U.S., most smiled. When I said that I understood the trial from a totally different prospective, most were stunned.

What I heard from them was that the MK trial was only about his political ambitions. I retorted, "Maybe." I also followed up the question, "So, he is completely innocent of the charges against him?" The replies were, "That's not the point!" Only for me to again follow up with the question, "So, what is the point?" After they determined I was not in agreement with their cause, the conversation quickly faded away.

I saw about five people detained by the police - it seems to me these people wanted to be detained. The police were in no way violent. My impression was the young policemen on the street had little idea or interest in what was happening the courthouse. It was another crowd control event for them.

Some of the media folks I spoke with appeared to be very much on MK's side. This attitude did not surprise me - that attitude is very evident when media reports on this trial.

Lastly, as everyone was saying "see ya tomorrow" and packing up, I saw a lone woman in her twenties holding a small "PORA" flag. Seeing the small "PORA" flag did not surprise me, the fact that she was all alone seemed to be out of place - and what one could see on her fact was disappointment that she was alone.

Overall, I didn't sense a great deal of emotion from either the supporters or the detractors of MK. Most people there seemed to be content to witness history - just like me.

Untimely Thoughts
http://www.untimely-thoughts.com
Vol 3, no 80 (302)

[Lukasz]

You obviously are not a Christian, because if you were you would see things from a Christian perspective. Putin is committed Christian and a Russian nationalist.

Since when nationalism is a good thing for the Christians? Patriotism yes, but nationalism is a sin. Better remember about your “nuke” dilemma Mr. Christian.

[Lukasz]

LPR in foreign policy is equally fucked up like PiS. In internal policy they are a lot worse than PiS.

[Lukasz]

Peter Lavelle is well known Putinist. I could bet that they are paying him for such articles. He always bashing democratic opposition without mercy.

[monday]

"Do you think that prosecuting Al Capone and Enron was wrong?"

No, but Putin has more in common with those criminals than Khodorkovsky. Actually Putin is more like Mugabe in Zimbabwe, who is also fond of appropriating private property and transferring the assets to his cronies.

[A. Pole]

Since when nationalism is a good thing for the Christians? Patriotism yes, but nationalism is a sin.

Language correction. In English the word "nationalism" is neutral, "patriotism" is positive, "chauvinism" is negative.

[Lukasz]

If this word is neutral, then why Gary decided to use it? Makes no sense.

[A. Pole]

Actually Putin is more like Mugabe in Zimbabwe, who is also fond of appropriating private property and transferring the assets to his cronies.

It was Yelstin who appropriated national assets and transferred them to his cronies, to organized crime and to foreign speculators, at the expence of impoverishment and death of millions (collapsed life expectancy shows the degree of damage).

Putin might and should correct it, either by restoring some state monopoly on strategic assets, and in re-doing some privatization deals in proper way, and steering the remaining "oligarchs" on the path of productive and non-politicized business.

It is a very complex task and those who wish Russia well should desire Putin's success.

[A. Pole]

If this word is neutral, then why Gary decided to use it? Makes no sense.

He said "Putin is committed Christian and a Russian nationalist".

Actually it makes a lot of sense. He combinded the positive evaluation with a neutral terms ("committed Christian" is sort of neutral too). That way he avoided the redundancy and made it a little more technical. Such style is more elegant and powerful.

[monday]

"It was Yelstin who appropriated national assets and transferred them to his cronies, to organized crime and to foreign speculators, at the expence of impoverishment and death of millions (collapsed life expectancy shows the degree of damage)."

lol..... If you expect to be taken seriously you should try getting a grip on reality. Socialism and state run monopolies do more harm than robber barons ever could.

[A. Pole]

Socialism and state run monopolies do more harm than robber barons ever could.

Not always. If there is a valuable resource like a gold mine, easy to extract and to sell, it makes sense to keep it as a government monopoly. That way one can help the government budget and lower the taxes.

Private property is good and useful, but it is not a god, there is a place for government or common property as well.

Communists are wrong in their attacks on private property, but so are the freemarketeers who want market to be the moral standard and individual wealth to be the ultimate good.