Mystery Flight (More info about 2 pass. of KLM flight on the no fly list)

Newsweek ^ | Apr. 25, 2005 issue | Mark Hosenball and Michael Hirsh

[Stonewall Jackson]

Who knows, they might have been using a legitimate trip to probe our defenses. If I remember correctly, Atta and some of his cronies made several flights across the country to study our security.

[spokeshave]

All....And what's McCains position on closing the borders....anyone know.....?

[JLS]

"They seem to have all kinds of AQ connections."

Then they should be arrested, tried and put in prison for a long time.
________________________________________________________

Nope you are falling for the Euro/Dim law enforcement view of terrorism. They are at war with us. In war you take the soldiers on the other side prisoner when you can. You then lock them up in your POW camp. Ours is Gitmo.

You do not try them. They are not criminals. You release them after aQ surrenders to the US, whenever that is. If it is 5, 10, 15, 20, 50 or 100 years in the future that aQ surrenders to the US, then the aQ POWs must sit in Gitmo for 5, 10, 15, 20, 50 or 100 years. Now I am not serious about 100 years, you let them out if they die. But you do not release POW as your soldiers will face them again on the battlefield as has already happened in Afghanistan.

[Paleo Conservative]

All....And what's McCains position on closing the borders....anyone know.....?

It's whatever the Washington Post, New York Times, and LA Times say.

[rdl6989]

Unfortunately, some foreign governments now think Washington does too much acting and too little thinking. While the Bush administration has made the case that this is a war without rules, Europeans still tend to see counterterrorism as a law-enforcement problem. That is partly why Dutch and other European authorities, lacking direct proof of a crime or plot, decided not to detain the two Saudis.

Typical Euroweenie thinking. These two men had connections to Hani Hanjour and another 9/11 hijacker at the same flight school those terrorists attended and some ask if the U.S. overreacted. NO.

[paul51]

Instead of wasting so much resources on tracking and watching these people all over the world, we need to start icing them.

[JLS]

summarily execute them.
________________________________________________

Certainly those caught out of uniform can be eliminated. But we denazified the Germans, we demilitarized the Japanese. Defeat aQ and I think lower level aQ members like many a German after WWII will be saying, what aQ, [Nazi party], I wasn't a member, in fact I hardly even knew anyone who was.

Hopefully in this war we will not need to kill lower level soldiers either. After aQ surrenders, lets hope they can be safely released and become as ardent US supporters as the Germans and Japanese in the 1950s and 1960s.

[piasa]

New evidence reveals much larger 9-11 plot; Al-Qaida might have commandeered 7 planes but some members were unable to enter U.S.

Posted: November 7, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

New evidence leads some investigators to believe the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were part of a larger plot involving as many as seven passenger jets, according to ABC News.

Documents seized in caves in Afghanistan recently were matched with visa applications indicating several al-Qaida terrorists tried unsuccessfully to enter the United States at about the same time as the 19 hijackers who carried out the attacks.

If the men had been able to enter, some investigators believe, al-Qaida might have been able to commandeer six or seven planes instead of four, ABC said. Others think the plan was to use the men in a separate, second wave of attacks.

"Our assumption at the White House at the time was that there were more attacks planned," Roger Cressey, the former director for counterterrorism for the National Security Council, told ABC News. "Maybe not on 9-11 but certainly afterward. [Osama] bin Laden and his people think strategically."

Suspected al-Qaida mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was arrested in March, has told interrogators bin Laden's original plan was to take over as many as 10 airplanes, including five departing from Los Angeles and San Francisco to attack California skyscrapers. The plan reportedly was scaled back in 1996 because it was too complex. ABC said some of the suspected terrorists have been killed or captured overseas, but one who traveled to the U.S. with a suspected would-be hijacker is still unaccounted for. That man, who might still be in the country, was traveling with a Saudi national who left the U.S. just before Sept. 11 for unknown reasons.

Another possible terrorist, according to the joint Sept. 11 intelligence report released earlier this year, left the country in July 2001, ABC said. The report links the suspect to hijacker Hani Hanjour and describes him as "an experienced flight instructor who was certified to fly Boeing 737s."

A terrorist network might still be in place in the U.S., said Cressey. "In fact, there probably is," he told ABC. "Just because the FBI has not found it yet does not mean that it doesn't exist."

[piasa]

To: Cindy

"Among the travelers was Faisal Al-Salmi, 34, who was convicted last year of lying to FBI agents about knowing Hanjour at an Arizona flight school."

stepping back in time to read this FBI Press Release...
###

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm
For Immediate Release
September 27, 2001

Washington D.C.
FBI National Press Office

View Photographs

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is today releasing 19 photographs of individuals believed to be the hijackers of the four airliners that crashed on September 11, 2001, into the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon, and in Stony Creek Township, Pennsylvania. The FBI requests the public's assistance in obtaining more information about these individuals.

It should be noted that attempts to confirm the true identities of these individuals are still under way. The FBI asks anyone who has ever seen or has information about these individuals to immediately contact the nearest FBI office or the toll free hotline number 1-866-483-5137 or submit information at WWW.IFCCFBI.GOV. The photographs can be viewed at WWW.FBI.GOV.


AMERICAN AIRLINES #77
BOEING 757



1) Khalid Almihdhar - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of San Diego, California, and New York

-Alias: Sannan Al-Makki; Khalid Bin Muhammad; 'Addallah Al-Mihdhar; Khalid Mohammad Al-Saqaf


2) Majed Moqed - Possible Saudi national

-Alias: Majed M.GH Moqed; Majed Moqed, Majed Mashaan Moqed


3) Nawaf Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey; San Diego, California

-Alias: Nawaf Al-Hazmi; Nawaf Al Hazmi; Nawaf M.S. Al Hazmi



4) Salem Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey



5) Hani Hanjour -

-Possible resident of Phoenix, Arizona, and San Diego, California

-Alias: Hani Saleh Hanjour; Hani Saleh; Hani Hanjour, Hani Saleh H. Hanjour


AMERICAN AIRLINES #11
BOEING 767

1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami- Possible Saudi national

-Dates of birth used: June 28, 1976; Last known address: United Arab Emirates


2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Possible Saudi national

-Dates of birth used: September 13, 1974; January 1, 1976; March 3, 1976; July 8, 1977; December 20, 1978; May 11, 1979; November 5, 1979

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Orlando, Florida; Daytona Beach, Florida

-Believed to be a pilot


3) Wail M. Alshehri

-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Newton, Massachusetts

-Believed to be a pilot


4) Mohamed Atta - Possible Egyptian national

-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Coral Springs, Florida; Hamburg, Germany

-Believed to be a pilot

-Alias: Mehan Atta; Mohammad El Amir; Muhammad Atta; Mohamed El Sayed; Mohamed Elsayed; Muhammad Muhammad Al Amir Awag Al Sayyid Atta; Muhammad Muhammad Al-Amir Awad Al Sayad



5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Possible Saudi national

-Dates of birth used: December 24, 1972 and May 28, 1979

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida

-Believed to be a pilot


UNITED AIRLINES #175
BOEING 767



1) Marwan Al-Shehhi

-Date of birth used: May 9, 1978

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida

-Believed to be a pilot

-Alias: Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Al-Shehi; Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Lakrab Al-Shihhi; Abu Abdullah


2) Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad

-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida

-Alias: Fayez Ahmad; Banihammad Fayez Abu Dhabi Banihammad; Fayez Rashid Ahmed; Banihammad Fayez; Rasid Ahmed Hassen Alqadi; Abu Dhabi Banihammad

Ahmed Fayez; Faez Ahmed


3) Ahmed Alghamdi



-Alias: Ahmed Salah Alghamdi


4) Hamza Alghamdi

-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida

-Alias: Hamza Al-Ghamdi; Hamza Ghamdi; Hamzah Alghamdi;

Hamza Alghamdi Saleh


5) Mohand Alshehri

-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida

-Alias: Mohammed Alshehhi; Mohamd Alshehri; Mohald Alshehri

UNITED AIRLINES #93
BOEING 757

1) Saeed Alghamdi

-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida

-Alias: Abdul Rahman Saed Alghamdi; Ali S Alghamdi; Al- Gamdi; Saad M.S. Al Ghamdi; Sadda Al Ghamdi; Saheed Al-Ghamdi; Seed Al Ghamdi


2) Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi - Possible Saudi national

-Date of birth used: October 11, 1980

-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida

-Alias: Ahmed Alhaznawi


3) Ahmed Alnami

-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida

-Alias: Ali Ahmed Alnami; Ahmed A. Al-Nami; Ahmed Al- Nawi


4) Ziad Samir Jarrah

-Believed to be a pilot

-Alias: Zaid Jarrahi; Zaid Samr Jarrah; Ziad S. Jarrah; Ziad Jarrah Jarrat, Ziad Samir Jarrahi





3 posted on 05/16/2003 1:50:32 AM PDT by Cindy

[Paleo Conservative]

Hopefully in this war we will not need to kill lower level soldiers either. After aQ surrenders, lets hope they can be safely released and become as ardent US supporters as the Germans and Japanese in the 1950s and 1960s.

Don't be naive. This is not a war between states; it is a religious war. We'er not going to convince them to give up terroism. We just need to kill them as fast as we can.

[Cindy]

Thank you piasa.

[piasa]

... One of these hits—from an FBI database of terror suspects known as TIPOFF—smacked investigators right between the eyes. The two Saudis, the database reported, were brothers and pilots who had attended the same Arizona flight school as 9/11 hijacker Hani Hanjour....

...At least one of the two Saudis had previously been deported from the United States, according to Homeland Security sources. A former neighbor in Arizona, who asked to remain anonymous, recalled that federal officials in full body armor rushed the Saudi's empty house several weeks after 9/11 and later arrested him. During FBI questioning, a law-enforcement official told NEWSWEEK, the Saudi acknowledged knowing Hani Hanjour. Upon further questioning, he also conceded that he had known another of the 9/11 hijackers...

...Some counterterrorism officials worry that the Saudi brothers could be living double lives. One of the Saudis lived in the United States for at least 14 years and took an engineering degree at Arizona State University. ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/913243/posts

Ex-ASU student arrested; may have plotted vs. Bush (hijacker pal casing Crawford ranch)

Arizona Republic ^ | May 17, 2003 | Judi Villa

Posted on 05/17/2003 6:22:04 AM PDT by fightinJAG

A former Arizona State University student arrested last week may have cased President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, six months before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, possibly to assess security for an attack, according to a report in the New York Daily News.

(Excerpt) Read more at ,azcentral.com ...[see Al-Gurashi]

---

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/912541/posts Hijacker pal near W ranch
New York Daily News ^ | May 16, 2030 | JAMES GORDON MEEK

Posted on 05/16/2003 1:30:10 AM PDT by sarcasm

WASHINGTON - Counterterror officials suspect that an Arab student linked to one of the Sept. 11 hijackers may have cased the presidential ranch in Crawford, Tex. - six months before the 9/11 attacks.

Muhammad Al-Gurashi and three other Arab men suspected of close ties to hijacker Hani Hanjour rented a car in Phoenix and drove to Freeport, Tex., in March 2001, intelligence and law enforcement sources say.

They are believed to have stopped near President Bush's ranch to assess security for a possible terrorist attack, the sources told the Daily News.

Al-Gurashi, a 28-year-old Saudi who attended Arizona State University, was arrested May 9 in Phoenix and charged with two counts of illegal possession of a firearm.

The sources said the federal charges helped give them a reason to lock up a suspected Al Qaeda operative. The FBI used credit card records to track the winding route of the 2001 Texas road trip. Among the travelers was Faisal Al-Salmi, 34, who was convicted last year of lying to FBI agents about knowing Hanjour at an Arizona flight school.

Because the men traveled between two nondescript Texas cities, Buffalo and Eastland, March 12 and 13, the FBI believes the group spent time casing the Crawford ranch. Last month, intelligence officials told The News that a group of Iraqis tried to sneak into the U.S. from Mexico, also possibly heading for Crawford.

Al-Gurashi's lawyer did not return a call for comment.

[FairOpinion]

Thanks for your great informative posts.

Looks like these two should have been detained, considering their connection to Hanjour.

[river rat]

Saudi Arabians.....
Again......

I'm more than impatient with our ignoring the role of Saudi Arabians in our WOT...

I believe it's time our Spec Ops folks simply start killing known militant Islamists..... ANYWHERE they can find them to kill... No sanctuary....

Semper Fi

[FairOpinion]

I am sure there is a great deal going on behind the scenes, that we will never know about.

Remember, Bush said in his speech in Sept. 2001, that there will be a lot of things, including successes, that will have to remain secret, to maintain our effectiveness against the terrorists.

[JLS]

Don't be naive. This is not a war between states; it is a religious war. We'er not going to convince them to give up terroism. We just need to kill them as fast as we can.
_______________________________________________

So you don't think Nazism was basically a religion? The followers certainly believed they were the chosen people and they worshiped their leader.

It was a newer religion than aQ type Islam so maybe you are right and people gave it up more readily than Islamofascist will? But people like to go with the winner. So maybe I will be right. Only time will tell, but I can assure you people greatly worried during WWII whether we could ever change the hearts of the Germans and Japanese.

[CurlyDave]

Even dumb old me can think up the idea of forcing the KLM jet down when it enters US airspace and sending the two Saudis to Gitmo while we sort out whether they represent a real threat or not.