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A different take (Peggy - I DON'T CARE if a murderer's expression changed) Flannery O'Connor Country
The Wall St. Journal ^ | 3/17/04 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 03/17/2005 6:32:05 PM PST by paulat

Flannery O'Connor Country The amazing story of how Ashley Smith stopped Brian Nichols's killing spree. Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:01 a.m. EST

Go to the link to see the pics Noonan found so inspiring.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: akillersavedisa; ashleysmith; bigmistake; briannichols; cantadmire; donttrusther; noonan
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The transcript was valuable...the gooey-eyed Noonan rapture is not. Ashley Smith is a hero.
1 posted on 03/17/2005 6:32:06 PM PST by paulat
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To: paulat

I am not sure I find Ashley Smith a Hero in the real sense.
I still have to think back to when she had a great chance to call the cops and escape and I think most of us would have taken that chance rather than be alone with a monster like that again.


2 posted on 03/17/2005 6:34:36 PM PST by Captain Peter Blood
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To: Captain Peter Blood

Oh, for pete's sake....


3 posted on 03/17/2005 6:36:14 PM PST by paulat
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To: paulat

Ah, Flannery O'Connor. And a Bible salesman running off with a wooden leg.


4 posted on 03/17/2005 6:37:33 PM PST by struggle ((The struggle continues))
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To: paulat

Well would you stay if you had a good chance to escape or take your chances with a known killer of 4 people????


5 posted on 03/17/2005 6:38:16 PM PST by Captain Peter Blood
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To: paulat

Noonan has always been way too gooey for my taste.


6 posted on 03/17/2005 6:40:57 PM PST by what's up
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To: Captain Peter Blood
Well would you stay if you had a good chance to escape or take your chances with a known killer of 4 people????

You weren't there. She stopped him from killing again and got him in custody. She is a hero.

Tell me about one heroic thing you've EVER done. I really want to know.

7 posted on 03/17/2005 6:42:50 PM PST by paulat
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To: Captain Peter Blood

Thursday-Night-Quarterback you are Sir!


8 posted on 03/17/2005 6:43:19 PM PST by torchthemummy ("Terrorism has less to do with economic poverty than with political poverty." - Jane Novak)
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To: paulat
the gooey-eyed Noonan rapture

Heh.

9 posted on 03/17/2005 6:43:22 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: paulat

I like what Peggy said.

IMO, Ashley was the vessel. It was words of Truth that changed his heart and mind. More powerful than a two-edged sword.


10 posted on 03/17/2005 6:43:53 PM PST by Kay
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To: Captain Peter Blood

Ashley had time to minister to Nichols, to appeal to purpose in life for serving God,and for him to atone for sins in this world. Hero? Heroes are given that name for brave deeds or faithful service. Ashley was faithful to God, did what a Christian should do, and then got in touch with the police. She probably saved a lot more people by not escaping and calming Nichols down and changing his mind set as to what his life will be in contrast to a shootout with police snipers.


11 posted on 03/17/2005 6:44:21 PM PST by vetvetdoug (Just when one thinks life is strange, it gets stranger.)
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To: paulat

In this case, a bad man was good to find.


12 posted on 03/17/2005 6:44:23 PM PST by OkieDoke
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To: paulat
"The gooey-eyed Noonan rapture is not"

Very apt description. I cringe every time she rhapsodizes poetic about something. Shiver

13 posted on 03/17/2005 6:45:24 PM PST by drt1
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To: what's up

Me, too. I had to take an insulin shot any time I used to read her--and I don't even have diabetes. Shudder.


14 posted on 03/17/2005 6:46:31 PM PST by Rastus
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To: vetvetdoug
Ashley had time to minister to Nichols, to appeal to purpose in life for serving God,and for him to atone for sins in this world. Hero? Heroes are given that name for brave deeds or faithful service. Ashley was faithful to God, did what a Christian should do, and then got in touch with the police. She probably saved a lot more people by not escaping and calming Nichols down and changing his mind set as to what his life will be in contrast to a shootout with police snipers.

OMG..what a wonderful summation of what I was trying to say!

15 posted on 03/17/2005 6:47:15 PM PST by paulat
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To: Captain Peter Blood
People under stresses like that do NOT respond the same way as we do sitting here quietly at the end of the day at our computers.

She was under his control not just physically, but probably also in an emotional/survival level that we can't relate to.

Kind of like an abused wife that stays locked in the house when the husband is gone to work, because he tells her not to leave.

Short term intense traumas can cause the same sort of blind obedience for a time.

I don't necessarily believe the whole giving of herself sort of thing as it has been related to us, but then again, that might be what SHE needs to believe about it.
16 posted on 03/17/2005 6:47:27 PM PST by texasflower ("America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one." President George W. Bush 01/20/05)
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To: Captain Peter Blood

I think the fact that she stayed with him was why she is a hero.

If she had run, he would have run.

And unfortunately, up until she called the police, they (the cops) weren't having any great success at finding the guy.

I think she had sensed by that point he wasn't going to hurt her, so why send him out on possibly another killing spree if she could negotiate with him.

I also think the fact that her husband had been a victim of a crime made her more aware of the possible impact this guy could have on still more people if she didn't aid in his capture.


17 posted on 03/17/2005 6:47:33 PM PST by dawn53
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To: paulat

It's a fascinating story and I both understand and respect her story of how she handled it. Too many people get worked up at use of the word hero for anyone who carried the baby down any less than five flights of stairs in a burning building. So I wouldn't build her up to a high esteem that will only cause the naysayers to insult her in defense of a word. She's a fascinating woman, who took part in a remarkable event.


18 posted on 03/17/2005 6:49:43 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (Just when I think you can't get any shallower, you manage to drain a little more out of the pool...)
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To: paulat

And he managed to do so without bashing Noonan. Imagine that...


19 posted on 03/17/2005 6:51:30 PM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: Captain Peter Blood
That has been done to death on the board.
20 posted on 03/17/2005 6:51:59 PM PST by don-o (Stop Freeploading. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor.)
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To: Captain Peter Blood

This brave woman created a sense of trust, in the face of the reality that she had admonished him for his actions, by showing that if she trusted his word ("Stay calm and I won't hurt you") then he could trust her word that she would follow him as he changed his parking spot to a less-conspicious location. At the end, they both told a conscious lie that they both knew - that she would return after she had retrieved her daughter and that he believed her. That "lie" and that then he let her go showed that he was strongly considering her earlier suggestion - give yourself up peacefully. He subsequently did.

She is a HERO! And don't you ever forget that!


21 posted on 03/17/2005 6:52:55 PM PST by torchthemummy ("Terrorism has less to do with economic poverty than with political poverty." - Jane Novak)
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To: OkieDoke
In this case, a bad man was good to find.

You know your Flannery.

He would have been a good man, if it had been somebody there to shoot him every minute of his life.

22 posted on 03/17/2005 6:56:51 PM PST by don-o (Stop Freeploading. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor.)
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To: Captain Peter Blood

Obviously Smith reads people better than you do.


23 posted on 03/17/2005 6:57:02 PM PST by RobbyS (,)
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To: HairOfTheDog
So I wouldn't build her up to a high esteem that will only cause the naysayers to insult her in defense of a word. She's a fascinating woman, who took part in a remarkable event.

Since WHEN should we cower under what NAYSAYERS say??

he·ro (hîr) KEY NOUN:

pl. he·roes

A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life.

I think she qualifies.

24 posted on 03/17/2005 6:58:46 PM PST by paulat
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To: Rastus

I like Peggy quite a lot; she does tend to be a bit treacly, however. V's wife.


25 posted on 03/17/2005 6:58:56 PM PST by ventana
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To: paulat

Sure she stopped him. She was out in the open, could have called the police and gotten away to be with her daughter and he could have been taken out in the open away from her apartment complex where there were lots of potential hostages and targets.
By the way I worked in store that was robbed and I have had shotgun to my head. I can tell you I was scared and I could not do anything about it. What about you????????


26 posted on 03/17/2005 6:59:18 PM PST by Captain Peter Blood
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To: paulat

Obviously the guy went off the deep end. She was able to pull him back to shore. I am reminded of Jean Val Jean and the good bishop.


27 posted on 03/17/2005 7:00:30 PM PST by RobbyS (,)
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To: Captain Peter Blood
Well would you stay if you had a good chance to escape or take your chances with a known killer of 4 people????

If you read any of the interviews she gave, she had begun to believe that he would not hurt HER, but she WAS concerned that if she took off, that he would leave and maybe kill someone else when he was trying to escape. Her decisions made sense to me, and it looks like her intuitions were correct. By the time she left to get her daughter, and called the police in the process, the guy had been 'talked down' to the point where he didn't try to fight his capture. I'd say she did a fine job of negotiating.

28 posted on 03/17/2005 7:01:20 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: OkieDoke

"In this case, a bad man was good to find."


;-)
I'm sure Flannery would appreciate the pun.

(BTW are you really an Okie?)


29 posted on 03/17/2005 7:01:27 PM PST by newheart (The Truth? You can't handle the Truth. But He can handle you.)
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To: texasflower

And you are engaging in psycho babble.


30 posted on 03/17/2005 7:02:14 PM PST by RobbyS (,)
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To: Captain Peter Blood

You either didn't pay attention during her press conference, or you don't agree with her assessment that to 'call it in' with a betrayal act would be to risk others being killed by him. Sheesh, this woman is a true heroine and did what she did because she loved others and thought she could save lives.


31 posted on 03/17/2005 7:03:18 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Captain Peter Blood
By the way I worked in store that was robbed and I have had shotgun to my head. I can tell you I was scared and I could not do anything about it. What about you????????

YOU are the one claiming you could have done better...I am not. I wouldn't for the life of me claim to have done better than Ashley.

32 posted on 03/17/2005 7:04:11 PM PST by paulat
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To: Captain Peter Blood

The Gwinnett police said she did everything right. Gwinnett County was where the hostage situation took place and they were the ones who captured Nichols. Having followed this story locally I believe the Gwinnett police.


33 posted on 03/17/2005 7:05:33 PM PST by AUsome Joy ("In Essentials, Unity; in Non-essentials, Liberty; in All Things, Charity," Augustine)
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To: don-o

I read that story in high school. As soon as I could, I got a carry permit. I'm convinced that the fundamental flaw with our friends on the left is that they refuse to recognize the existence of evil in the world. Good v. evil.
Notice that now there's an effort going on by family, friends, etc. to 'rehabilitate' this monster?
Read Ann Coulter's latest article? Grandma deputy vs. a 200 lb. former linebacker.


34 posted on 03/17/2005 7:06:39 PM PST by OkieDoke
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To: ohioWfan; Bahbah; Howlin; MinuteGal

Peggy piece is very powerful. You may wish to read/share it.


35 posted on 03/17/2005 7:06:57 PM PST by hoosiermama (Party affiliation merits stating only if unique not common place.... R = unique. D=common place)
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To: paulat

Fine.... I wore myself out on the naysayers in the first two days of this. Her story was not marred by them.


36 posted on 03/17/2005 7:07:41 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (Just when I think you can't get any shallower, you manage to drain a little more out of the pool...)
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To: paulat
*****The transcript was valuable...the gooey-eyed Noonan rapture is not. Ashley Smith is a hero.****

Watch out! Some freepers here are comparing her to Susan Smith. I think Ashley did a remarkable thing and quite frankly at $60,000 (the reward money) that is a real bargain because who knows how long it would have taken to find this guy were it not for her. (i.e. eric rudolph)

37 posted on 03/17/2005 7:08:57 PM PST by buckeyesrule (chieftain is a moore-on)
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To: paulat

...This is Nichols's mug shot. This is Nichols's face after
he gave himself up to police Saturday...

...Something changed...

...Something happened...

Judging by the pictures, I'd say he turned to the left.

Burn him.


38 posted on 03/17/2005 7:09:28 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: Captain Peter Blood

I think you should change your screen name to Brave Sir Robin.


39 posted on 03/17/2005 7:14:11 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: HairOfTheDog
Fine.... I wore myself out on the naysayers in the first two days of this. Her story was not marred by them.

Sympathetic LOLS...to you, Hair. I just read Peggy's piece tonight and went ballistic...she likes the look in his eyes...give me a freakin' break!!!

And again, Ashley IS A HERO!!!!

40 posted on 03/17/2005 7:14:36 PM PST by paulat
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To: SuziQ

"I'd say she did a fine job of negotiating."

Yes, you put it very well. I think the fact that he waved a white flag indicates your assessement is correct, he was in a different mind set.

And, that's a good thing, based on where he was before.

I'm really a bad tempered Irish person (happy St. Patrick's day all), but for all my raging only once in my life did I have an actual, in my heart, desire to murder someone. It was a very revealing moment, and a very bad place to be. So, this woman got this man out of that place, where he had been for longer than the fleeting moment I was there.

She is absolutely a hero.

Let's face it, she's a hero to him, she saved his life, if no other, because without what she did his chances of going down in a hail of bullets was pretty darn good.

Now, he may get the death penalty, and be executed, and he would well deserve it, but he will have some life for a time. And that is good, if he strives to make amends for what he did, and repent his sins.

Let's not forget repentance and forgiveness, because without them, we are just animals; and PETA don't care about our kind.


41 posted on 03/17/2005 7:15:30 PM PST by jocon307
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To: RobbyS

Oh how sweet, another dull useless term.


42 posted on 03/17/2005 7:16:27 PM PST by texasflower ("America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one." President George W. Bush 01/20/05)
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To: Captain Peter Blood

You, Chieftain and Deguello remind me of George Costanza--when the apartment caught on fire during the kids' birthday party. If I'm ever in trouble, I hope that none of you "men" are in the vicinity. I'd rather fight alone.


43 posted on 03/17/2005 7:17:55 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: texasflower

Read your own post again. You are talking nonsense about someone whom you have never met.


44 posted on 03/17/2005 7:19:09 PM PST by RobbyS (,)
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To: Captain Peter Blood

" I am not sure I find Ashley Smith a Hero in the real sense."

Me neither,
Should Jessica Lynch have forfeited her freedom and run back to her Iraqi captors to read aloud from A Purpose Driven Life ?
Should Elizabeth Smart have done the same thing ?
Once you are the victim of a kidnapping and have the opportunity to escape- take it.
Don't trust your kidnapper and hope to convert him by reading scripture.
You can still be a good Christian by escaping and alerting the authorities to the location of your abductor.


45 posted on 03/17/2005 7:19:20 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: Wild Irish Rogue

Your concept of 'christian' is just too sophisticated for we mere Christians.


46 posted on 03/17/2005 7:21:52 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: newheart

Born & bred in the Cimmaron country near the panhandle: a wampum, red-dirt Okie. Now a corn-fed Hoosier.


47 posted on 03/17/2005 7:27:24 PM PST by OkieDoke
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
" I am not sure I find Ashley Smith a Hero in the real sense."

Me neither

Okay, Wild Irish Rogue...get rid of the IRA and I'll believe you are a REAL man...after all...you KNOW what to do in EVERY adverse situation....

48 posted on 03/17/2005 7:28:19 PM PST by paulat
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To: paulat
A remarkable story, but one I have a problem with ONLY for it's HUMANIZATION of the perp AND the complete VOID of mention of the VICTIMS and the horror that will be with their families forever.

I have read the book, "THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE", and I do believe in miracles, but I must admit that with this story becoming ONLY about HER WITNESS to HIM and HIS conversion, and somehow I am to rejoice in this, WHILE completely ignoring the VICTIMS, then I am not yet ready for the purpose driven life.

49 posted on 03/17/2005 7:30:28 PM PST by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: RobbyS
First of all, you don't know that I have never met her.

Secondly, I was raped. With a gun. Do you understand that?

WITH THE GUN.

Psycho-babble nonsense? I don't think so.
50 posted on 03/17/2005 7:41:33 PM PST by texasflower ("America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one." President George W. Bush 01/20/05)
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