As for Chevy, who the hell names a pickup the "SS"??
Posted on 02/27/2005 8:02:13 PM PST by CHARLITE
Many people have many problems with many things. Some you have control over and some you don’t. The real problem begins when you can’t get your problem solved. “What? You won't help me? But? You have my money! My product doesn’t work!”
Have you ever been in this situation? I have had problems with products or services several times and they are usually quickly resolved. Well, over the past year I have had several problems that just haven’t gotten resolved. So, what better place to take them than to the public.
I may even make this a recurring column and discuss other people’s problems.
In October 2003 I purchased a Chevrolet SS pickup truck for my soon-to-be wife. The sales rep, which happened to be the manager, told me this truck was the best truck on the road. Well, having owned Chevrolet’s all my life and trusting this sales rep and dealership, away I went in my new truck.
Things were good for the first few months. Then, my wife drove the truck to see her parents an hour away. She called me and said the truck was vibrating so much that it was giving her a headache. When she took it by the dealership they told her it was normal and couldn’t be fixed. At the time I didn’t have a chance to deal with the situation because of a race for Congress. I figured it wouldn’t hurt to wait a few more months.
In August of 2004 I took the truck to the Chevrolet dealership. They said they found nothing technically wrong with the vehicle. Technically? Interesting term in customer service. After several more visits to the dealership and after being turned down by the GM rep to have a meeting I contacted the Better Business Bureau.
I filled out the normal paperwork for the Bureau and waited to hear back. After I did not, I contacted the GM Corporation Customer Service Center. I was promptly contacted by "Regina." Hmm, getting places, I thought. Several, several weeks later -- and three skipped conference calls by Regina -- I was told that my Chevrolet SS pickup truck comes standard with vibration. Can I get that in writing? "No. We can't give you anything in writing."
Excuse me? Regina with GM told me that the shaking and rattling in my brand new SS was normal. But, but Regina, GM and my local Chevrolet dealership? Why would you sell me a brand new SS that vibrates and then refuse to fix it?
Like I said before, I have driven Z71’s and Tahoe’s all my life. They don’t come standard with vibration.
My wife and I now have a six-week old baby. For those who have children you know it is a feat to get them to sleep. Well, we can’t even drive the “best truck on the road” because it wakes our baby. Now, Chevrolet is proudly releasing an entire line of SS trucks and cars. The commercial is catchy and brilliantly put together. However, instead of driving a car that is smooth like a record it feels more like an accordion.
Chevrolet says it has better resale value then Ford or Dodge. Well, the SS pickup’s sticker price is over $40,000 new and you can buy a year and a half old one for $24,000.
My advice to consumers is to only purchase these vehicles if you want a ride that will give you a headache, chatter your teeth and keep your baby awake. So, buyer (and stock-holder) beware. The new Super Sport is one sport short of being super. Your best bet? Get a few horses and a log wagon, it's a lot cheaper and just as “smooth”.
Comments:nathan@nathantabor.com
I would have thought that standard feature would have been a hit with the ladies.
And of course, those perfectly balanced tired wouldn't STAY balanced once they got a little wear on them.
Hey Nathan. Did the truck vibrate when you test drove it? His ol' lady probably hit a curb and doesn't want to admit it.
And then these American car companies stand in utter bafflement when people like me absolultely REFUSE to even consider buying another of their products. First I got screwed by Chevy, then Saturn. Fool me once, shame on me. I as fooled twice. Never again.
For the record, I will not even bother getting a quote for any American car company. I don't care if the new American vehicle is $10, not interested.
I have Toyotas now, a Lexus with 165,000 miles without a problem, and a pickup with 162,000; again both are problem free. Why would I ever consider buying American again?
American cars didn't lose a customer, they threw sticks and stones at them, and drove them to their competition. Then they wonder why we aren't coming back to get screwed over again.
"Hey Nathan. Did the truck vibrate when you test drove it? His ol' lady probably hit a curb and doesn't want to admit it."
Alot of people tend to leave those little details out when they want it fixed for free.
This would be EASILY corrected by simply doing an alignment and wheel balance. So, if this is the problem, is the dealer stupid or incompetent?
my Mazda B2200 developed a rattle from hell once.
the front left tire was wearing asymmetrically, possibly from a brake caliper malfunction
new tires and new brakes ended the trouble permanently
He doesn't say where the problem comes from. Is it in the drive train, engine or brakes and has he had two or three independents look at it.
Interesting .... so is this a vehicle design issue, or a tire design issue? One would think that this would have surfaced during the first round of Quality and Reliability testing. Seems like a pretty profound problem to me.
Not if one of the wheels is bent.
Weird, I have a Pontiac Bonneville with 225,000 miles and it runs like a champ, doesn`t even leak or use any oil. Also have a Fullsize Ford van with 206,000 miles and same deal, runs absolutley fantastic. I would drive it across the country tomorrow.
But...... I have a Ford Windstar van with 106,000 and wouldn`t recommend one to someone I didn`t like. Horrible vehicle. I don`t go two months without some issue cropping up. Don`t know why I even keep it around.
I finally came to laugh at the phrase, especially when it makes you think of "stone age technology" and the rate of depreciation (like a rock).
This is easier to find than balancing a tire. If it is bent, the tire will 'wobble' either up and down, or from side to side. Been there, done that. Even a very minor bend (1/16 of an inch) is easily observable on the rack.
Constantly
Having
Every
Vehicle
Recalled
Over
Lousy
Engineering
Teams
If they're the "Heartbeat of America", then why is the name itself French? Chevy hasn't built a real SS since 1970.
He's there now.
Wouldn't it be great if he discovered the root of the problem from FReepers, and was able to get his truck running smoothly, as it should, thanks to you all?
Thanks!
Char :)
I wish I could post the graphs directly, but if you subscribe to Consumer Reports, you can see the bad news for yourself.
Each car's overall score is calculated for its 2002, 2003, and 2004 versions. It's also weighted to emphasize more serious problem areas, including the engine, transmission, cooling system, and drive system. This overall score is then compared with the average for all the 2002, 2003, and 2004 cars in the survey. The charts reflect how the car compared with that all-car average.
Toyta Tundra +50% above average
Ford F150 (2WD) + 5% above average
Dodge Ram -5%
Nisan Titan -8%
Chev Avalanche -15%
Chev Silvarado -18%
GMC Sierra -18%
Ford F150 (4WD) -50%
Dad was a Service Manager for a Chevy Dealership and his advice to buyers was:
"Never buy a vehicle the first year it comes out! New models are frequently recalled for defects. It takes a year of complaints to work out the last of the bugs and correct the tooling. The second or third model year is a much better vehicle."
It is a pretty truck, though.
Perhaps you can isolate the trouble --- does it vibrate when it's sitting still, in park? Got to be a rough engine. If it only vibrates when in motion, try shifting into neutral (while it's rolling) and see if it still vibrates. Tell the dealer the results of your experiments, and he might get a clue.
As an alternative, call an alighnment and frame shop and ask if they have a machine which will spin your wheels up to highway speeds while it's on the rack. They can then inspect it and probably find the trouble.
I wonder if it's an '03 or '04 ? There are 72 Technical Service Bulletins on the '03 and 54 for the '04.
It's still gotta be under warranty (unless they've already blew the miles).
I'd ask for a test drive in another one, have a friend and a dealer rep ride along and have the dealer rep point out the standard vibration in it.
When it ain't there...you have 2 witnesses...of which one who wont lie.
A broken belt in one of the tires...just one, front or back...can cause this. And it might not even be visible.
Not to be contrarian (I only buy Japanese myself), but I had a friend (ex boss) who bought a Lexus GS400 and it had a vibration problem too. Never was able to get it fixed so he just traded it in for something else.
Oh. I thought he was singing "Like Iraq," meaning you never know what will happen next.
If i was one of the Big Three i would ensure that when people think of my products there is a positive image attached to it. Sadly i doubt any of the Big Three truly care about such things.
former and banned (I think) freeper Nathan Tabor has finally found his true calling
lol... he would probably not admit it, I don't think he likes us anymore... =0)
I don`t need Consumer Reports, I spent 17 years working on these darn vehicles. I left 3 years ago to start my own business. Unrelated to auto service/repair industry.
There are issues with many vehicles, there is no doubt about that ( even Japanese built vehicles ).
All American auto manufacturers make quality cars and trucks, you just have to know which ones they are ( Like what engine and transmission combinations are more dependable than others ).
I do know the "big three" are having quite a few quality control issues the past few years. Ford seems to be the worst of them all ( they have a safety recall on the new Ford GT !! Something about front end component(s) cracking !! They are actually picking the cars up from the customers. I guess if you spend that kind of money you get your butt kissed ).
If I had to purchase a new car tomorrow, it probably wouldn`t be one of the " big three " models. It is sad to say that, but it is true.
But there are also some foreign built cars I wouldn`t touch either.
So I will keep my high mileage fleet for a little while longer.
302k on my first, a 1977.
165k on my second, 1993.
Working on my 3rd Toyota and have been stranded a total of one, yes one time.
My friends who buy American spend alot more on towing and repairs.
One day I hope we can build a truck worth buying.
well, duh! since the vibration is 'normal' then it seems like it is meant to be there, thus nothing that requires fixing ... he had the answer in his own statement ... he should proofread more often
ps. buy a subaru
"Char, Please let them know the vehicle has been in the shop more than five times.
They have changed tires, balanced tires, etc.
The problem is simple. It is a poorly built truck.
Nathan
Vehicle design issue. We bought more than one new set of tires attempting to fix the problem. Finally got an Isusu rep to quietly admit that Rodeo's had a problem with "wheel hop".
Seems the rear suspension has a resonant frequency at just about the wheel rotation speed. I suspect they went all out to avoid a control problem like the Ford Explorer has that they sacraficed ride in trade for safety. I'd have thought they could have fixed the problem with a bit of carefully placed ballast on the rear axle to change the harmonic.
How bad is this vibration? Varies with speed or rpm or both? Lot's of possible causes. Drive shaft or harmonic damper gone out of balance or a rough running engine due to misfiring or a pollution control sensor that's gone bad. I've had all of these happen. But my bet would be on a bad tire or a wheel that has thrown a large wheel weight if it happened suddenly.
Perhaps that advice only applies to domestics. I had a first-year Honda Odyssey, followed by a first-year Honda Pilot and the worst trouble I've had is a minor water pump issue...
Truth be told, with all the information available today, you'd have to be stupid to buy almost all domestics.
Sorry, but the Japanese (Particularly Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus) have all the domestic marques sucking wind.
Curb or chuck hole. I'd change the tires (swap with a new one) all around and see which one is the offender with the broken belt. Might even be two of them.
American cars have never been better (the 70s and much of the 80s were the worst for US cars), but still, US cars are designed to wear out and be replaced in a relatively short time. That is not the philosphy with some manufacturers like Lexus/Toyota, which designs cars to last as long as you want them to last.
"The problem is simple. It is a poorly built truck."
Or it is a poor Auto Technician looking at it.
Always blame the Car/truck.....
This guy needs to learn on how to get things resolved. Being a politician ( or involved in politics ) it seems he would know how to do that.
There are ways to get on the good side of the person on the other side of the counter. One big part of that is giving the serv. writer/ auto tech good info on the problem. From reading this article, there are so many questions I would be asking it would make your head spin. Sometimes it is all just a lack of communication.
Has he tried an independent shop? If he can find a "good" independent to take on this issue, if it is found, I guarantee he could get any repair costs refunded from GM.
Sometimes you just have to take another look at a situation and be proactive. Going back to the same dealer who couldn`t find the problem in the first place is a waste of time. Obviously they cannot find it.
If this guy would give more info on the problem, he may get some helpful info on what the cause may be. There are quite a few very knowledgeable people on this forum ( not claiming to be one of them, just for the record ).
It had a 2.3 liter engine that started life in the Pinto sometime around 1972. They merely upgraded the carb to digital injection.
After about 20k miles, it began to ping. After arguing with the service people who claimed that this was "normal", they finally admitted that they had a fix. There was a jumper plug in the wiring harness under the hood, that when removed retarded the timing and made the ping go away. The problem was that this also made what little performance it had go away too, as well as gas mileage.
The fact that they had installed a jumper at the factory to do this told me that they knew from the beginning that it was going to carbon up and ping. They were just too lazy to reengineer the head design to fix the problem correctly.
Since the truck could not perform as sold and advertized on the window sticker for more than 20k miles, as far as I'm concerned their performance claims were fraud.
I might tolerate a simple "mistake" in a design. But when a Ford truck is designed with a factory "work around" to a problem, rather than fix the cause of the problem, I'm not trusting anything they engineer again.
I have an Isuzu Axiom(half rodeo, half trooper, different body) and I replaced the original death tires(Goodyear Integrity which spun out on anything wet) with some Yokohama's after 12k miles. It took 3 balances(at 3 different shops for $10 bucks a tire each time) before they were tolerable and they still vibrate. After some investigation, I found the same thing you just stated. The vehicle requires extraordinary balancing.
It sounds to me as if this Chevy has the same problem.
Since Chevy dealerships are everywhere, take it to another dealer and explain the situation and ask for their best technician to work on it. I once had a vibration problem on a new Ford and when the original dealership couldn't repair it, I took to a nearby Lincoln dealer who had it fixed under warranty in a couple days. Or track down the best private mechanic in the area and get their opinion, then take it back to Chevy to fix it. You will be out some bucks, but the possibility of getting rid of the vibration goes from zero to maybe 100%. Plus, you'll maybe find a great mechanic to go to if there are any out of warranty problems later.
"American cars have never been better (the 70s and much of the 80s were the worst for US cars), but still, US cars are designed to wear out and be replaced in a relatively short time. That is not the philosphy with some manufacturers like Lexus/Toyota, which designs cars to last as long as you want them to last."
I could spend an hour dispelling all that.
I guess that 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass I drove for many years and sold with 260,000 miles was a fluke ( saw it five years later still on the road !! ). And the several other American built cars and trucks I have owned and drove for sometime ( still do actually ) with over 200,000 miles on them were also flukes.
Alot of the problems car/trucks have have more to do with the owners than the vehicles.
I guess you never owned one of those early Rotary Mazda`s?
: )
A competent dealer would be able to fix this problem. This is not rocket science and has nothing to do where it is manufactured. Most likely cause is bad tires. Those square tires are known to cause vibration. Get some round ones.
"The fact that they had installed a jumper at the factory to do this told me that they knew from the beginning that it was going to carbon up and ping. They were just too lazy to reengineer the head design to fix the problem correctly."
That jumper plug was for checking and setting the ignition timing whenever maintainance was performed. If unplugging the jumper was the auto techs fix for the problem, they were idiots.
Duh! I can't give an opinion on every car ever made! I am speaking in general and from personal experience and the experience of firends and family. I had a friend in grad school with a rotary mazda and he never had any problems with it, but you are talking about an engine design there that was both unique and brought out, what, 30 years ago?!! Anyway, all the US cars in the 70s were junk due to slapped on pollution controls. The 80s cars were not much better and grossly underpowered and started falling apart as soon as you drove them off the dealer's lot. Things started to improve slowly in the 90s and US cars today are quite good compared to the last 30 years or more. Still not as good as those designed by Toyota or Honda, but not as bad as euro cars.
That only works with Harleys.
"I guess that 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass I drove for many years and sold with 260,000 miles was a fluke ( saw it five years later still on the road !! ). And the several other American built cars and trucks I have owned and drove for sometime ( still do actually ) with over 200,000 miles on them were also flukes. "
I would say your guess is right. They were flukes. I also believe you sunk a ton of money into them just to keep them running!
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