Posted on 02/26/2005 5:18:05 AM PST by ViLaLuz
Both are right. Terri is not in a "vegetative state" as is commonly defined. In other words she is not unconscious. She is currently not totally aware, when I was referring to my pre-coffee state I was trying to give a real world example that most people will relate too. In Terri's case this is caused by brain damage (no one disputes that she is indeed brain damaged) and likely also lack of stimulation. Brain damage is treatable and improvement is possible.
In a medically defined "vegetative state" people can respond to stimuli, they can even walk with help, they certainly feel pain. This is not what is referred to as a "vegetative state" in the common usage.
It is like the terms autistic and retarded. In medical terms the meaning is quite different then in common terms. So someone can quite properly be labeled one thing in medical terms but if you used the same term in common usage the label would be wrong.
Actually Michael already has NO RIGHT to be making these decisions, because of his violations as GUARDIAN
But, this case does threaten the handicapped lives, believe me. There are those out there that think they should "just die". There are those out there, who do not want tax dollars going to their care, or their education!
And if you don't believe me, believe advocates for the handicapped, like Joni Eareckson Tada:
http://www.joniandfriends.org/apcm/APCMviewer.asp?a=92&z=4
"This goes against everything that this country is founded on, every moral that God-fearing citizens espouse, every thought for the common good. It is a dark day, indeed, when those who should be protected, nurtured, after surviving traumas of all kinds, are tortured in this manner. Can any citizen have hope for the future in light of this ruling? I dare say, no."
I'm going. I have spent the morning organizing it. I don't have it all worked out yet, but I should have that done by Monday.
I don't know how much good I can do, but I can't leave this alone.
Maybe I'll just stay up all night burning candles.
It isn't yet clear to me when the best time will be to go. I have requested advice.
Regarding your post about Terri's injuries...
I was married to the same woman for 26 years. For much of that time, we had what I would characterize as a difficult, argumetative relationship.
I never once laid a hand on her. I wanted to at times, but I never did. That is not something you do.
Injuries like Terri apparently has/had do not come from falling down stairs or in the bathtub. I have fallen down stairs and done other things. I have fallen off motorcycles, played football, etc. Those sort of injuries require more than that.
IMO, she was battered.
Mikie lived with the Schindlers after Terri's accident. Mr. Schindler supported Mike and paid Terri's bills, while Mikie made a good show of being the supportive husband. Of course he did have a girlfriend...but, anyway. He took Terri to treatment, bothered the hospital staff to put on her makeup and looked like a very caring husband---while he was trying to win a financial settlement in court. He said he needed enough money to care for Terri for 50 years. I guess he had forgotten her "wishes" for those first 4 years?
But, Mr. Schindler paid Terri's bills. Mike saying he would reimburse when he got the settlement.
The settlement came....Mike quit taking care of Terri, instituted a DNR, and told the rest home not to give her antibiotics. Mr. Schindler asked Mike to reimburse him for the costs of Terri's care for 4 years, with the settlement money, which is what they got the money for---and that is when Mike got angry and decided to "get back" at the Schindersl. Just a couple weeks after the settlement was reached, Mike "remembered" that Terri would not want to be kept alive on "Tubes"!--- The perfect way for Mike to repay those who had supported him!
The clinic mike sued was owned by a company which went bankrupt. His girlfriend, Jodi, had an uncle who was a part owner of that company. Interesting, isn't it? And Jodi's mom worked for the Sheriff's office, until her death...more interesting....
yes, when the details fall out, much is learned.
ok.
Done and Thank you. I voted for Terri's parents!
Felos and Terri's husband maintain she received all the injuries, however, from osteoporosis.
But an orthopedic surgeon, a friend of mine, opined that the results he sees on the bone scan are more consistent with trauma than with osteoporosis, especially given someone Terri's age.
Dr. Walker, the doctor who interpreted the results, was deposed regarding these injuries. It was his opinion that the injuries occurred more likely within the previous 12 - 18 months of the scan having been taken. I'm not sure who it was that posted that deposition. I'll ping a couple FReepers who may know where to locate his comments, or knows who's posted Dr. Walker's testimony on another thread.
I agree; and I don't believe Terri is in a vegetative state. I do believe that that is what Dr. Baden believes. There are numerous doctors, however, that disagree with him. Regardless, it is interesting that, even though he does not/may not understand Terri's mental state (after all, he is a forensic doctor, not a neurologist or other similar type of physician), he is able to understand her injuries as pertains to the bones, etc.
Dr. Baden is not a neurologist; he does not specialize in that. He is capable, however, of understanding trauma to bones and other type of injuries as he is a forensic doctor. My friend is an orthopedic surgeon, again not a neurologist. He did not comment on that which is out of his field. He did state, however, that it was his opinion that what Terri's bone scan shows is Terri suffered from TRAUMA rather than osteoporosis, as claimed by HINO and Felos.
It's suspicious, that's for sure. People don't get broken bones and not have their lives affected, even stress fractures.
Thanks for your civil response.
And you assumed I was cantankerous. :-)
If we inflicted this type of death on such subhuman criminals as the Carr brothers or Alejandro Avila there would be huge demonstrations in this country and other countries and the UN would all get into the act.
Yet in the minds of Judge Greer, Michael Schiavo and others it is a wonderful thing to do.
See my post #63. I vote for Terri's parents.
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