Kevin P. Casey for The New York Times
"The U.S. seems to be leading the
pack as the world spirals down,"
said Melanie Redman, who hopes
to move to Toronto.
Posted on 02/08/2005 3:06:42 AM PST by Pharmboy
Kevin P. Casey for The New York Times
"The U.S. seems to be leading the
pack as the world spirals down,"
said Melanie Redman, who hopes
to move to Toronto.
VANCOUVER, British Columbia, Feb. 4 - Christopher Key knows exactly what he would be giving up if he left Bellingham, Wash. "It's the sort of place Norman Rockwell would paint, where everyone watches out for everyone else and we have block parties every year," said Mr. Key, a 56-year-old Vietnam War veteran and former magazine editor who lists Francis Scott Key among his ancestors.
But leave it he intends to do, and as soon as he can. His house is on the market, and he is busily seeking work across the border in Canada. For him, the re-election of President Bush was the last straw.
"I love the United States," he said as he stood on the Vancouver waterfront, staring toward the Coast Mountains, which was lost in a gray shroud. "I fought for it in Vietnam. It's a wrenching decision to think about leaving. But America is turning into a country very different from the one I grew up believing in."
In the Niagara of liberal angst just after Mr. Bush's victory on Nov. 2, the Canadian government's immigration Web site reported an increase in inquiries from the United States to about 115,000 a day from 20,000. After three months, memories of the election have begun to recede. There has been an inauguration, even a State of the Union address.
Yet immigration lawyers say that Americans are not just making inquiries and that more are pursuing a move above the 49th parallel, fed up with a country they see drifting persistently to the right and abandoning the principles of tolerance, compassion and peaceful idealism they felt once defined the nation.
America is in no danger of emptying out. But even a small loss of residents, many of whom cite a deep sense of political despair, is a significant event in the life of a nation that thinks of itself as a place to escape to.
Firm numbers on potential émigrés are elusive.
"The number of U.S. citizens who are actually submitting Canadian immigration papers and making concrete plans is about three or four times higher than normal," said Linda Mark, an immigration lawyer in Vancouver.
Other immigration lawyers in Toronto, Montreal and Halifax said they had noticed a similar uptick, though most put the rise at closer to threefold.
"We're still not talking about a huge movement of people," said David Cohen, an immigration lawyer in Montreal. "In 2003, the last year where full statistics are available, there were something like 6,000 U.S. citizens who received permanent resident status in Canada. So even if we do go up threefold this year, we're only talking about 18,000 people."
Still, that is more than double the population of Gettysburg, Pa. "For every one who reacts to the Bush victory by moving to a new country, how many others are there still in America, feeling similarly disaffected but not quite willing to take such a drastic step?" Mr. Cohen asked.
It will be six months, at least, before the Canadian government has any hard numbers on how many people are really making the move.
Melanie Redman, 30, assistant director of the Epilepsy Foundation in Seattle, said she had put her Volvo up for sale and hoped to be living in Toronto by the summer. Ms. Redman and her Canadian boyfriend, a Web site designer for Canadian nonprofit companies, had been planning to move to New York, but after Nov. 2, they decided on Canada instead.
"I'm doing it," she said. "I don't want to participate in what this administration is doing here and around the world. Under Bush, the U.S. seems to be leading the pack as the world spirals down."
Ms. Redman intends to apply for a conjugal visa, which can be easier to get than the skilled worker visa required of most Americans. To do so, she must prove that she and her boyfriend have had a relationship for at least a year, so she has collected supporting paperwork, like love letters, to present to the Canadian government.
"I'm originally from a poor, lead-mining town in Missouri and I know a lot of the people there don't understand why I'm doing this," she said. "Even my family is pretty disappointed. And the fact is, it makes me pretty sad, too. But I just can't bear to pay taxes in the United States right now."
Compared with the other potential émigrés interviewed, Ms. Redman was far along in planning.
Mike Aves, 40, a financial planner in Palm Beach, Fla., where he has been active in the Young Democrats, said he was finding it almost impossible from that distance to land a job in Canada. "I've told my wife, I'd be willing to take a step down, socioeconomically, to move from white-collar work to a blue-collar job, if it would get us to Canada," he said.
Many of those interviewed said the idea of moving to Canada had been simmering in the backs of their minds for years, partly as a reaction to what they saw as a rightward drift in the country and partly as a desire to live in a place they see as more tolerant, pacific and, yes, liberal.
Kevin P. Casey for The New York Times
Christopher Key, shown in
Vancouver last Wednesday, said
the re-election of President Bush
convinced him to move to Canada.
But for all, the re-election of Mr. Bush was decisive in their decision to take concrete steps.
"Not everybody is prepared to live their political values, but these are people who are," said Jason Mogus, an Internet entrepreneur in Vancouver whose Web company communicopia.net offers marketing services for progressive companies and nonprofit groups, and whose Web site at canadianalternative.com is often the first stop for Americans eager to learn about moving north.
"Immigration to Canada is not like packing your family in a car and moving across the state line," Mr. Mogus said. "It's a long process. It can take 18 months or even longer sometimes. And if you hire a lawyer to help you, it can cost thousands of dollars."
So Mr. Mogus said the response to the Web site, from all over the United States, had amazed him. Some are drawn by Canada's more tolerant attitude toward same-sex unions, he said, and there are a surprising number of middle-aged professionals.
"My wife and I have talked for a long time about perhaps retiring to a condo in downtown Vancouver," said Frederick Newmeyer, 61, a professor of linguistics at the University of Washington in Seattle. "But the election was the tipping point."
Since it may take all of the two years he has until retirement to get a permanent resident visa, Mr. Newmeyer said he and his wife had hired a lawyer and begun the paperwork.
Canadian officials decide on potential immigrants by awarding points for certain skills or attributes. Being 21 to 49 years old is worth 10 points, for instance. A bachelor's degree is worth 20, a master's 25, with up to 21 points for certain work experience and 24 points for being fluent in English and French. At the moment, 67 points are required to qualify for the visa.
Under the North American Free Trade Agreement, workers in certain jobs can also qualify for residency permits if they land a job in Canada.
Mr. Key has made several recent trips to scout for jobs in the Vancouver area. He thinks most Canadian employers would prefer to hire a Canadian.
Chris Mares, a recreation therapist in Albuquerque, said that he hoped to move to Canada in about a year, when he qualified for his pension, but that he could not do it without first landing a job.
"I put a bunch of applications in and filled out a bunch of forms and now I'm waiting to hear back," said Mr. Mares, 54. "But it's not easy. It's not like they open the door wide and say, 'Hey Americans, come on in.' "
Jerry Gorde may be taking the longest view.
"I'm on a 100-month plan," said Mr. Gorde, who runs Vatex, a company in Richmond, Va., that creates promotional campaigns for corporate clients.
A former civil rights marcher and antiwar protester, Mr. Gorde said he built his company in Virginia because the state was not one of America's liberal enclaves, hoping to spread progressive ideas in the heart of conservatism. He was once named the state's entrepreneur of the year.
"I think George Bush's re-election, in itself, is nothing compared to what happens, over the next 10 to 15 years, if he gets to make three or four appointments to the Supreme Court," Mr. Gorde said. "I foresee a much darker period in front of us."
Beginning now, Mr. Gorde plans to gradually shift his life from Richmond to one of the islands near Vancouver - buying a home, spending a little more time there each year, gradually extracting himself from his company in Virginia until, 100 months from now, his life will be Canadian.
"When I set my mind to something, I'm the most organized and driven person in the world," he said. "I have made this decision and I'm going to do it."
He knows that some who share his political views wonder why he does not stay in the United States and battle it out.
"I'm 53 years old, and I don't know if I have the energy to go out in the streets and organize again," Mr. Gorde said. "Or maybe it's just a matter of becoming a little bit spoiled at this point in my life."
Good-bye to you...and good riddance.
... and don't come back.
Rollin, rollin, rollin, keep those traitors rollin, Rawhide!..If you are think'in..It's a'north I'm head'in... don't let that door hit you broadside.....
Perhaps it could be arranged to have these people tour Mexico conducting seminars on how bad life is in the US. Those people are voting with their feet too.
Oh the sacrifice, a liberal without a Volvo. Just hope she can keep a token of the car, such as the ubiquitous "mean people suck" bumper sticker.
Go, please.
Some reality based education will be good for you.
This is, indeed, good news. Now, if we could only get those Canadians, who are fed up with the U.C.S.R. (Union of Canadian Socialist Republics), to move down here to replace them, it would be one more positive aspect of the 2004 election.
Oh no! What will we do with out the fresh quiche?
We could start negotiations for a prisoner exchange.
I agree 100%. I am not exactly shedding tears over these people leaving the US- hell I am actually glad. However, there should be one condition- they must be required to forfeit their chance of ever reinstating their citizenship and of ever voting again in the US. Also, they (and their kids) must never be allowed to draw any benefit from the US government.
They may find their "refuge" is short lived. It is likely the Liberals will be toppled by the Conservatives in the next election.
Regards, Ivan
What - they don't allow Volvos in Toronto?
Volvo driving is a sign of liberalism. Perhaps she doesn't want to be an easy target for the irate natives who don't want more left wingers crossing the border.
Regards, Ivan
Oh, yeah, THESE are people who are "living their political values".
Never mind the 290 MILLION who are staying in America, but THESE FEW are true believers.
'Welcome to Canada! Please remove your Constitutional protections and leave them by the door.'
The sooner these people get to the 48th parallel, the better.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
Discrimination through a points system? I am stunned! I was certain that they were allowing ten of thousands to cross ( illegally ) every day. How un-liberal.
Their's are. Many of our's probably should be (prisoners, that is).
he is busily seeking work across the border in Canada
He'll soon find out being a lumberjack is hard work.
Excellent. I can't wait!
It isn't the distance.
The brain drain from Canada averages around 25,000 per year. Their best come to America for a better life and the moochers stay there.
I remain convinced the spirit of the Red Ensign is not dead - and Old Canada, faithful Canada, can be revived. The Liberals must be kicked out for the healing process to begin.
Regards, Ivan
So this article is based on two people who "intend to" move and inquiries at the Canadian immigration authorities. As far as I can tell (and I will admit that I abandoned this article mid-stream), it does not include a single, actual living person who has left the US for Canada over the Bush election.
Ahhhhhhhhhh more elbow room.
Yawwwwwn ...
bust
Let me offer you some facts:
Acording to this US Government document, 16,555 people emigrated from Canada into the United States in 2003, (11,446 were "lawfully admitted for permanent residence")
and it says here that 6,408 Canadian-born persons were naturalized in 2003.
If you take into account the population difference between Canada and the US, it would seem to me that a greater percentage of Canadians is moving south than Americans moving north.
add to that they must submit to being sterilized to help eliminate the imbecile gene they carry.
The Liberals are moving up to get away from Bush, The Queers are moving up to get married. Canadas health cars system is about to get strained with aids patients and mental deficients. Cant understand why that one liberal cant take her Volvo with her, too bad. To all I wish you well and have a nice trip a-holes.
More like a trickle from a rusty faucet in dark abandoned basement.
Some Democrats still plan to leave the U.S after Bush winning re-election
International Herald Tribune ^
Posted on 02/06/2005
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1337526/posts
http://www.voccoquan.com/barbaric/fifteen%20minutes.htm
The Barbaric Yawp
Christopher Key
My fifteen minutes of fame
It didn’t happen overnight. I have been increasingly uncomfortable with the political and social values of America ever since the ascension of King George the Unelected back in 2000. Somewhere in the wee hours of November 3rd, 2004, I realized that America was no longer the country that I have loved and believed in all my life. I don’t know how to explain it. The voters in this country seem to be suffering from sort of mass delusion.
This time, George W. Bush was actually elected by a majority of the voters. Here is a man who has failed miserably at everything he has ever done. That is not my opinion. It is established fact. Here is a man who has lied shamelessly over and over again to the American public. That is not my opinion. It is established fact. Here is a man who has managed to make America hated by half the world and held in contempt by the other half. That is not my opinion. It is established fact.
I don’t want to be tarred with that brush. I have consistently opposed the policies that have resulted in this sad state of affairs. It makes me very uncomfortable to call myself an American.
My family came to this country in the early 1600s. My direct ancestor wrote the words to the American national anthem. I am a Vietnam veteran, a member of the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Until this last election, I couldn’t imagine anything that would make me leave the land I love so much.
I have always believed that America stood for freedom and tolerance and diversity. That, it seems, is no longer true. Fundamentalist Christians seem to have gained the upper hand and seek to impose their narrow religious beliefs on the rest of us. Our president is owned by them, body and soul. They elected him and they are calling in their chips.
Mandatory Christian prayer in the schools is one of their goals. Repealing the abortion laws is another. Constitutional discrimination against gays and lesbians is yet another. Like all religious fanatics, the American evangelical right believes that they are ordained by God to judge the rest of us. Judgment, according to the Christian Bible, is reserved for God. When people arrogate this right unto themselves, it results in exclusion.
As an ordained minister, I believe that our founding fathers intended us to have freedom of religion. Most of them were Deists. I believe they also intended us to have freedom from religion. Under the Bush administration, America has come dangerously close to becoming a theocracy. It will only get worse now that the Bush administration believes it has a mandate.
Can someone please explain to me how this is any better than the Taliban? Or any better than the hordes of Muslim fundamentalists who seek the destruction of America? The only difference I see is that American happens to have the power to enforce its will. We all know what Lord Acton had to say about that.
Rather than trying to understand why we were attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, we have sought to exact an Old Testament vengeance. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will leave us all blind and toothless. Instead of making America safer, the Bush administration has created a whole new generation of terrorists even more bent on the destruction of this country. I don’t know of a single American who feels safer today than they did before Sept. 11.
This is the predictable result of an administration that cynically played on the fears of Americans in order to get elected. Manipulating the electorate by using fear is so shamefully un-American that I felt I could no longer live with what we have become. So I made the decision to move to Canada, a country that lives up to those values of freedom and tolerance and diversity that America once stood for.
Anyone who thinks that this decision was taken lightly simply doesn’t understand the situation. This isn’t about petulance over having been outvoted. This is about being unable to accept what I see as a betrayal of the values America’s founders stood for. It is not comfortable for me to be identified with a country that does not reflect my political and social values. Canada reflects those values, so I made my choice.
When I expressed those sentiments to my Canadian friend Dave Pollard, he encouraged me to post them on the Moving to Canada, Eh? Weblog. Little did I know what an impact that would have.
Somehow, CBC picked up on my comments and contacted me. They asked if I would be willing to go live on The National and explain myself. Knowing that it would not be seen by most Americans, I agreed. So I got my first few minutes of fame on The National on November 29. It was an honor to participate in that program.
As a journalist who got his start in television, I knew that it would not be an in-depth examination of the issues. Television, by its very nature, is superficial. CBC is not as guilty of this as its American counterparts, but it is still guilty. I had about two minutes to explain what is taking me much longer in print. Despite the limitations, I got nothing but positive feedback from my many Canadian friends and from the few Americans who saw the broadcast.
There were other repercussions, however. I live in a very quiet middle American neighborhood. Norman Rockwell would have painted this street if he was still alive. Having a CBC satellite truck parked in my driveway for several hours caused more excitement than this neighborhood was ready to handle. There was a lot of gossip, most of which was unfounded. One of my neighbors, upon seeing Canadians in the ‘hood, made a point of hanging out his American flag.
Some of the neighbors eventually got up the courage to ask me what was going on. I played it straight. I told them what was happening and why. Interestingly enough, there was no condemnation. One of my neighbors, a die hard Bush supporter, engaged me in conversation. She was totally gracious and supported my right to feel the way I do. We both agreed that civil discourse seems to have broken down in America. Why, then, can’t the country as a whole be as respectful of each other’s opinions as we were? She hit me up for a contribution to the local Hospice and I gave them something for their auction.
We met again at the neighborhood Christmas party tonight and chatted amiably, not even mentioning our political differences. This is the America I believe in. Why can’t it exist beyond this neighborhood? Of course, my neighbor doesn’t know about my female to male transgender son. That might change her attitude.
Having experienced the vicious hatred and bigotry displayed toward my son, I have lost my illusions about Americans as being tolerant. My son did not choose to be who he is. He just happened to be born in the wrong body. And he had the courage to do something about it.
Americans have a notable incapacity for reading and understanding history. When I was growing up, this country discriminated against African Americans. I am proud to have marched for civil rights in my younger days. Now, gays, lesbians and transgenders are the new niggers. Americans seem to have some deep seated need to feel superior to someone. When I was growing up, it was blacks. Now it is those who do not fit into our narrow definitions of gender.
In the recent election, 11 states voted to outlaw gay marriage. Canada has just voted to legalize gay marriage. Which country represents freedom and tolerance? Which country puts human rights above religious belief?
Back to the media circus. Some researcher at NBC saw my appearance on CBC and asked if I would be willing to speak my piece on their nightly newscast. This represented a serious dilemma for me. I am editor of a monthly business magazine. Obviously, a wild-eyed radical. I have gone to extreme lengths not to let my political beliefs affect how I report the news.
If you know anything about American business, you will realize that the majority of my readers are conservative Republicans. I explained this to NBC and said that I didn’t want to compromise my journalistic credibility by expressing my political beliefs on the air. They said they understood and agreed to call me Charles Key in their piece.
Small favor. I suggested they call me by that name because it is my first name. I hate the name and never use it. I go by Christopher, my middle name. I doubt that it will do much to hide my identity from my readers. So be it. I may have burned my bridges. NBC’s piece aired tonight. They fixated on my relationship to my ancestor who wrote the national anthem. It was even more superficial than the CBC piece.
But, for better or for worse, I am now a reluctant celebrity in both nations. If my publisher, a conservative Republican, saw the news, I may be out of a job. If my readers saw it, my credibility as a journalist may be shot. Somehow, I find myself able to live with that. I have honestly expressed my feelings. If I get run out of America on a rail, I will be able to sleep well, knowing that I have expressed feelings that many other Americans haven’t had the opportunity to do.
The NBC correspondent asked me if I somehow felt like a traitor to my nation. I responded that if I am a traitor, so were the founding fathers of America. They left a political system that they could no longer believe in and founded a nation based on different values. They were traitors to the British Empire.
If I am a traitor to the American Empire, I can live with that. Fortunately, I don’t have to create another country that reflects my values. There’s a perfectly good one just 30 miles away. God and Canadian Immigration willing, I will make my next post from my adoptive country.
Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."
Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."
B) And if they do go, let's see how long they actually stay there.
So how many Canucks are moving to the US?
We're sposed to believed that every American who seeks residency in Canada is doing it for political reasons. As much as I'd like to believe that droves of wacked out libs are vacating the country, common sense tells me that a good percentage of the folks are going to Canada for professional and personal relationship reasons.
This is excellent news. I sure hope Canada doesn't turn any of them away. I know SEVERAL down here that I wish were headed up there.
See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!
I read several months ago that the average over the past 10 years has been about 6,000 Americans emigrating to Canada and 30,000 Canadian emigrating to the US. When you take into account the fact that the population of Canada is about one-tenth that of the US, the actual proportion is about 50-1 moving from Canada to the US. But why would the NY Times bother to bring up facts that would undermine their whole story? Guess that part of the news doesn't fit. What a pathetic joke that paper is. They should go back to covering up genocide, a subject with which they have greater experience.
You nailed it.
There are quite a few Ex-Canadians here in South Florida.
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
Give up your citizenship so I will not have to pay taxes to keep you up!!!!!
I'm sure if you scratch the surface psychologically on these liberal folks you'll find a deep-seated desire to be with progressive "whites" only, hence their chosen exiles in the frozen north. Funny how they gush over places like Sweden, Vermont, Seattle, Vancouver, Germany, Netherlands, etc. Lots of whiteys.
You never hear of these people pining for Mexico or Nigeria.
I don't believe it! A bunch of libs who are as good as their word! I thought finding a lib who actually was as good as their word was like finding Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth fairy!
There are one large bunch here in central Florida.
Too bad Melanie is taking the twins to Canada, eh?
L.O.L.....Canada or bust!...just ask Red Green.....
...Taking those twin targets north.....would not need a guide to find that....
[I] Mike Aves, 40, a financial planner in Palm Beach, Fla., where he has been active in the Young Democrats, said he was finding it almost impossible from that distance to land a job in Canada. "I've told my wife, I'd be willing to take a step down, socioeconomically, to move from white-collar work to a blue-collar job, if it would get us to Canada," he said. [/I]
Mikey, you are about to take about FIFTY steps down socioeconomically. I am guessing you are very well off for your age; so am I. I live in a shoe box in Toronto with no amenities, no yard, no balcony, no parking and no storage. Parking in this neighbourhood costs an extra $100 per month at home and more than that downtown. You'll pay 60% of your income -- which will be half what you are making now -- in taxes. You'll be overrun with homeless beggars everywhere you go. You will be told you have the right to a lot of things you won't be able to get. Your childrens' schools will be on strike and when they are not, they will be dirty, underfunded, and backward. This is a country still struggling to provide safe, clean drinking water to its citizens and Toronto is having an epidemic of cooties due to the large number of beggars and street people.
But consider this: a woman from Hamilton, Ontario, regularly drives her leased 2001 VW Jetta from her $300,000 home, to Toronto, TO PANHANDLE. Tax-free income and 'street theatre' rolled into one.
My liberal cousin found her first visit to England traumatic because she figured the whole world was like the USA only 'quaint'. I think these liberal crybabies have made the same error about Canada.
P.S. to all these people, can you speak French? Better learn.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.