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Poles outraged at NYT misrepresentation of the truth about Holocaust
KoLiber Poland websites ^ | Jan 31, 2005 | Joanna Najfeld, Spokesman, The KoLiber Association

Posted on 01/31/2005 2:40:20 PM PST by Joanna Najfeld

The Polish KoLiber Association's Letter to the Editor of the NYT re. Mr. Craig Smith's Jan 27 article "World Leaders Gather for Auschwitz Ceremony"

To the Editor:

Dear Sir,

I am writing on behalf of myself and the organization I represent to express our utmost outrage as members of the Polish nation, at the depiction of Polish-Jewish relations by Mr. Craig Smith in his article, "World Leaders Gather for Auschwitz Ceremony," published in your January 27th, 2005 edition.

We feel deeply offended by the harmful and untrue ideas expressed in the following statement: "for Russia it is a commemoration of its often-overlooked role as liberator, while for Poland and other Central European countries it is both part of a gradual recognition of their complicity in the killing and an opportunity to draw closer to Europe."

Please, be informed that Poland is not recognizing its complicity in the killing, as there was no such complicity on the part of our Nation. The author's statement to the contrary belies either his objectivity and/or basic knowledge of the facts of world's history.

(continued below...)

(Excerpt) Read more at koliber.net ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: deceit; germannazi; holocaust; holocaustrevisionism; jews; nazirevisionism; nyt; poland; thenewyorktimes; worldwarii; wwii
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We also fear that such depiction of Polish - Jewish relations as the author seems to imply, can only prove harmful to the so far positive image of Jews in the Polish nation, which is an issue of great concern especially to those within our organization who are proud to be of Jewish origin.

To refresh the author's memory, it was the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 and shortly after built concentration camps to slaughter people of many nations, mainly Jews and Poles. Polish authorities never collaborated with the Nazi occupants.

On the contrary, Poles constitute the majority of those awarded the honorary title "Righteous Among the Nations" by the Yad Vashem Institute, a title awarded for heroic conduct in saving the lives of Jews during the times of the Nazi genocide. To deny the heroic role of Poles as the nation who saved most Jews, often at the expense of their own lives, is at best evidence of ignorance of basic historical facts.

As to the "Russia's often-overlooked role as liberator", we advise you to reflect over the reasons for this state of affairs. Wartime acts of genocide were committed by both Germans and Russians, who invaded Poland in September 1939 and shortly after started slaughtering thousands of Polish troops in Katyn. In the meantime, they built their own concentration camps at Kolyma and in Siberia, some of which lasted for much longer than the German ones and were witness to just as much pain and suffering.

Moreover, the victims of Communism vastly outnumber the victims of Nazism, which is not to excuse the latter in any way, but rather to point out that it is only natural that Soviets were considered more of a new occupying force, than liberators of the Nazi concentration camps in Poland. After all, following the Soviet "liberation" of Poland, we have been subject to nearly half a century of brutal Communist rule - dark times in the history of Poland not easily forgotten.

For all the reasons mentioned and also for the sake of the credibility and good name of your world-wide respected newspaper, we urge you to issue an apology and a correction of those false, harmful and ultimately offensive words of Mr. Smith, written, hopefully, out of lack of knowledge rather than on purpose.

Yours faithfully,

Joanna Ewa Najfeld Spokesman, The KoLiber Association, Poland najfeldATkoliber.net www.KoLiber.net

on behalf of: Pawe³ Podsiedlik Chairman, The KoLiber Association, Poland www.KoLiber.org

A copy of this letter is available at our websites:

http://www.koliber.net/index/index.php?action=show&object=article&id=2993 http://koliber.org/informacje.php?co=2&id=1168

1 posted on 01/31/2005 2:40:20 PM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: Joanna Najfeld

I notice the NYT ignored their OWN complicity in Stalin's murder of millions of his own citizens.


2 posted on 01/31/2005 2:44:53 PM PST by montag813
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To: montag813

Exactly.


3 posted on 01/31/2005 2:47:23 PM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: Joanna Najfeld

It is true that many individual Poles behaved heroically in saving Jews.

It is equally true that many individual Poles jumped at the chance to avenge themselves on those they had hated for a very long time.

No Polish government participated in the slaughter, as to varying degrees the Dutch, Belgian, French, Italian, etc. governments did. Unfortunately, this may have been only because the Germans would allow nothing resembling a government, even a puppet government, among the "subhuman" Poles.


4 posted on 01/31/2005 2:51:29 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Joanna Najfeld
The author's statement to the contrary belies either his objectivity and/or basic knowledge of the facts of world's history.

He probably used the NY Times as a source, LOL, their archives are no better than their daily fishwrap.

5 posted on 01/31/2005 2:53:04 PM PST by Mister Baredog (PLEASE be sure you have a flag up on your FReeper homepage.!!!)
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To: Joanna Najfeld

Gee, gotta' pity those poor Russians. Those horrible, ungrateful Poles don't feel grateful that the Russians liberated them from the Germans and then proceeded to turn the entire Polish nation into a prison camp.

[/Sarcasm off]


6 posted on 01/31/2005 2:54:57 PM PST by Owl558 (Please excuse my poor spelling)
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To: Ravi; bummerdude; twinself; dakine; eddiespaghetti; PhilDragoo; 68skylark; Lukasz; Grzegorz 246; ...
Eastern European ping list


FRmail me to be added or removed from this Eastern European ping list

7 posted on 01/31/2005 2:56:44 PM PST by lizol
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To: Joanna Najfeld

The left wing people who live in the free United States supported the Communist Stalin, and even Hitler before Hitler invaded the USSR, so it would be only natural that they would blame Poland and not their God Stalin. Read history the left went on strike to keep war supplies from being sent to the UK up until Germany invaded the USSR. After that they supported sending supplies to the USSR and to the UK.


8 posted on 01/31/2005 2:57:32 PM PST by YOUGOTIT
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To: Joanna Najfeld

Oh, Bravo! The NYT exposes their ineptitude on a daily basis, and as a friend of the U.S., Poland is no friend of the NYT.


9 posted on 01/31/2005 3:07:51 PM PST by AmericanChef
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To: montag813
I notice the NYT ignored their OWN complicity in Stalin's murder of millions of his own citizens.

I was just reading Malcolm Muggeridge's account of Walter Duranty, the Pulitzer Prize-winning fraud from the Times who was their bureau chief in Moscow in the 1930s. Muggeridge was there at the same time, and he said that not only was Duranty obviously covering up Stalinist atrocities, his editors back in New York were completely aware that he was. Of the many slavishly-devoted Liberals of the day who parroted the Soviet line, Duranty was considered the most extreme example of blatant propagandist among his fellow reporters. The Times has a long history of unapologetic boosterism for totalitarian regimes, so it is no wonder that it puts out a story extolling the role of the Soviets as "liberators." There is no one in Poland who considers the Soviets liberators, and in fact the impression I get is that they hate the Russians far more than they do the Germans. The Times is a despicable piece of garbage.

10 posted on 01/31/2005 3:51:40 PM PST by speedy
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To: Restorer

There was, I believe a government in exile in England. For certain there were Polish troops and at least one Polish squadron in the Battle of Britain July-Sept 1940


11 posted on 01/31/2005 4:03:29 PM PST by AntiBurr ("Those who cannot remember the past are destined to repeat it" Santayana)
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To: Restorer
I'd agree with you more or less on your first, second and third sentence.

But not on the fourth one. Actually - Hitler didn't want to have a puppet Polish government. But I don't think it had anything to do with "subhumanity" of Poles. At the same time there were puppet governments in Slovakia and Bulgaria. In Ukraine Germans created SS Division "Galizien - Halychyna". There were also ethnic Russian troops suporting Germans (like Vlasov's troops, RONA). All of them were Slavs - like Poles
Do you really think, that Hitler considered Poles as more "subhuman" than Slovaks, Bulgarians, Ukrainians or Russians? I don't think so.
In my opinion the reason was, that Poles were the next in a turn - after Jews - to be exterminated. It was necessary to clean a "Lebensraum" for the German "Herrenfolk".
So - there was no reason to complicate things with creating any "government", if there was not supposed to exist any form of Polish state, even dominated by Germans.

The only legal Polish government during WW2 was the one in exile in London. It's military forces fought in Africa, Italy, Western Europe and in Poland (the Home Army).

In Poland - during entire time of German occupation - also structures of undergroung civilian government were active. Among them there were underground courts too. Any form of collaboration with Gemrans was considered by those courts as a treason. Courts gave verdicts, that were executed by special units of the Home Army and traitors were being killed.

Of course there were Poles, who were hostile towards Jews - killing them, denouncing or delivering to Germans. They were called "shmaltzovniks".
But such a behaviour was also considered as a treason by the underground authorities and many of "shmaltzovniks" were sentenced to death and shot.

And this would describe - more or less - the attitude of Polish authorities during WW@ towards collaboration with Germans in killing Jews.

Anyone, who says, that Poles (in general, and particularly) collaborated with Germans in killing Jews and were co-responsible for the Holocaust is eihter a complete ignorant, or just lying villain.
12 posted on 01/31/2005 4:06:27 PM PST by lizol
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To: AntiBurr
Polish troops also took part in the invasion of Normandy in 1944. John Keegan mentions their contribution in his book Fields of Battle.
13 posted on 01/31/2005 5:39:17 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: lizol; montag813; Joanna Najfeld; Grzegorz 246; Grampa Dave; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; devolve; ...
The New York Times ought to give credit where credit is due: namely, its Walter Duranty won a Pulitzer for covering up Stalin's murder of ten million.

A Holocaust and a half--and the Old Gray Whore of record was up to its neck in blood.

And of course it would be the tiniest of footnotes that Stalin and Hitler inked a friendship treaty, which, followed by Barbarossa, caused whiplash on the NYT editorial staff.

14 posted on 01/31/2005 6:27:40 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: Joanna Najfeld
The New York Times is simply despicable. Its editors and reporters today are no better than Walter Duranty was in Stalin's day. Fortunately, every issue of the New York Times is like a suicide note.
15 posted on 01/31/2005 6:41:21 PM PST by Malesherbes
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
16 posted on 02/01/2005 5:39:53 AM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: lizol
As always, the NYT is publishing crap without doing the proper research. You take Romania for example, which during WWII managed to save all its Jewish population due to a great leader they had at the time, General Antonescu. Unfortunately, some of them were harassed and killed by a gang of Nazi symphatizers, an organization which was dismantled and its members imprisoned and executed by the same General Antonescu. More unfortunate, Transylvania, the NW part of Romania, was under Hungarian control and a lot of Jews from that part of the country became victims. But I do remember my grandfather who used to tell us stories how they'd go to the borders with vehicles and medical help to receive the Jewish Exodus from places like Poland and oddly enough, on the street where I grew up, there was a family who's elders were Jewish from Poland, refugees from WWII, who made a new home in Romania and never returned.
17 posted on 02/01/2005 6:05:00 AM PST by Quinotto (On matters of style,swim with the current,on matters of principle stand like a rock-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Malesherbes; lizol; Grzegorz 246; A. Pole
>>>>>Fortunately, every issue of the New York Times is like a suicide note<<<<<

Unfortunatelly, NYT fishwrap is not alone. In all other MSM Auschwitz is regularly called POLISH CONCENTRATION CAMP or POLISH EXTERMINATION CAMP.

This is blattant case of Nazi revisionism - Auschwitz is GERMAN NAZI EXTERMINATION CAMP IN OCCUPIED POLAND.

I suggest that Polish organisations (e.g. Polish American Congress, Polish Army Veterans Association, Polish Home Army, Polish Legion of American Veterans, U.S.A.) create joint fund, hire top gun lawyer's firm and SUE EACH AND EVERY media outlet calling Auschwitz "polish concentration camp".

Don't fool ourselves, the majority of American population can not show Poland on the map, let alone knowing the history of WWII and who is responsible for THE HOLOCAUST.

It is also important to remember that 10,000 Nazis have settled in U.S. after the war. Many of them never faced justice for the crimes committed in Europe.

They are EAGER to tar Poles in order to finally escape justice.

The proceeds from the damages should be used for public education of what happened in WWII Poland.

Nazis are slowly regsaing in peace what they have lost in war.

18 posted on 02/01/2005 6:08:18 AM PST by DTA
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To: Verginius Rufus; AntiBurr

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Polish%20contribution%20to%20World%20War%20II

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/List%20of%20Polish%20divisions%20in%20WWII


19 posted on 02/01/2005 6:15:09 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: DTA

You are right, but this is also our fault - we don't promote our history.


20 posted on 02/01/2005 6:17:50 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: DTA
I suggest that Polish organisations (e.g. Polish American Congress, Polish Army Veterans Association, Polish Home Army, Polish Legion of American Veterans, U.S.A.) create joint fund, hire top gun lawyer's firm and SUE EACH AND EVERY media outlet calling Auschwitz "polish concentration camp". Couldn't agree with you more. But until somebody puts that brilliant idea into practice, we are doing what we can.
21 posted on 02/01/2005 7:47:32 AM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: Malesherbes; lizol; Grzegorz 246; A. Pole; DTA; SJackson; All
This is a very good summary of Polish - Jewish relations before, during and after the war:

STANIS£AW KRAJEWSKI "The Jewish Problem" as a Polish Problem from www.polandembassy.org an official Polish embassy site.

It was written by a person who identifies himself as Pole of the Jewish faith.

I think he went through the pains of taking all the sharp angles out without avoiding major facts.

So, maybe, NYT is not so wrong. Before you scream that I just hate Poles - get some education from "the source".
22 posted on 02/01/2005 7:57:01 AM PST by chukcha
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To: Joanna Najfeld

I asked this question before on another thread, but got no response.

If you compared two occupations - German and Russian / Nazi and Soviet - which one was the lesser evil?


23 posted on 02/01/2005 8:31:51 AM PST by chukcha
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To: DTA

Can you post any links or references to the actual articles where NYT uses the expression POLISH CONCENTRATION CAMP or POLISH EXTERMINATION CAMP?

Here is the article that got everyone fired up. I don't see ANYTHING offensive there.

January 27, 2005
World Leaders Gather for Auschwitz Ceremony
By CRAIG S. SMITH

KRAKOW, Poland, Jan. 26 - Heads of state, prominent Jews, Nazi death camp survivors and a handful of their liberators began gathering here Wednesday in a heavy snowstorm to commemorate the freeing of thousands of people from the nearby Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp 60 years ago.

As many as 1.5 million people, including 1 million Jews, met their death at the Auschwitz complex, which included three main camps and 39 smaller camps 40 miles southwest of Krakow. Most were killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau, the second of the main camps, that has come to symbolize the much broader Holocaust in which 6 million Jews died.

The commemoration Thursday, the largest ever, marks the liberation of the camp on Jan. 27, 1945. It will take place at a memorial built between the ruins of two of the camp's gas chambers.

The ceremony this year has an air of urgency as Jewish organizations work to ensure that awareness of the Holocaust persists after living memories of it die. This is likely to be the last major anniversary to be attended by both camp survivors and their former Soviet Red Army liberators. Only seven liberators are expected to attend the ceremony Thursday. All of them are in their 90's.

A forum on Thursday, sponsored by the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Israel and the European Jewish Congress, will seek commitments from European leaders to institutionalize the teaching of the Holocaust, drawing on educational programs and materials developed by Yad Vashem.

"The numbers of world leaders coming and the readiness of the media to follow the commemoration is greater than before, but the event is also more important now with a new anti-Semitism building in Europe," said the head of Yad Vashem, Avner Shalev, arguing that without a systematic approach to teaching about the Holocaust, its meaning for future generations may fade. "We need a concrete commitment out of this ceremony."

That commitment is all the more critical now because a growing number of Europe's young Muslims are resisting, even rejecting, efforts to teach them about the Holocaust, arguing that there is not enough attention paid to the killing of innocent Muslims by Israel or the United States-led coalitions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Teachers are reluctant to teach about the Holocaust in some schools, particularly in France, Belgium and Denmark. Mr. Shalev said that most of his organization's educational exchanges with France are now with the country's private Jewish institutions.

The commemoration will be attended by heads of state from Russia, Poland, Germany, France and Israel along with political leaders from nearly 40 other countries. Vice President Dick Cheney will attend on behalf of the United States. He arrived Wednesday and met with the Polish President, Aleksander Kwasniewski, a staunch supporter of the war in Iraq who is facing increasing public pressure to bring Polish troops home.

"We have to remind our youth that these great evils of history were perpetrated not in some remote uncivilized world but in the very heart of the civilized world," Mr. Cheney told a gathering of survivors and their families at the Galicja Jewish Museum in Krakow Wednesday. Exhibits there trace several centuries of Jewish history in southern Poland.

The commemoration means different things to each nation: for Russia it is a commemoration of its often-overlooked role as liberator, while for Poland and other Central European countries it is both part of a gradual recognition of their complicity in the killing and an opportunity to draw closer to Europe. Poland and several other former Soviet bloc countries joined the European Union last year and the rest are waiting to join.

A recent string of anti-Semitic attacks across Europe and other unsettling events, such as the widely publicized photograph of Prince Harry, third in line to the British throne, wearing a Nazi uniform at a costume party earlier this month and a walkout by far-right German legislators during a minute's silence for Nazi victims on Friday, have raised concerns that the horrors of the Holocaust are being forgotten.

Moshe Kantor, chairman of the European Jewish Congress, warned that the rise in anti-Semitic incidents should not be ignored.

"From broken windows to death camps was the blink of an eye," Mr. Kantor said, referring to the four years between the 1938 attacks on German Jews known as Kristallnacht, or Night of Broken Glass, and the 1942 Wannsee Conference at which German leaders discussed the "final solution to the Jewish question in Europe."

At a dinner Wednesday, Mr. Kantor talked of the need to pass on personal recollections of the Holocaust, not just statistics or historical accounts. As an example, he told of meeting an elderly woman during a visit to the Birkenau camp several years ago. She remarked to him that the camp looked different when she was interned there because there was no grass then; starving prisoners had eaten it all.


24 posted on 02/01/2005 8:45:22 AM PST by chukcha
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To: chukcha
Here is the article that got everyone fired up. I don't see ANYTHING offensive there.

You quoted it yourself:

The commemoration means different things to each nation: for Russia it is a commemoration of its often-overlooked role as liberator, while for Poland and other Central European countries it is both part of a gradual recognition of their complicity in the killing and an opportunity to draw closer to Europe. Poland and several other former Soviet bloc countries joined the European Union last year and the rest are waiting to join.

Please, read our letter to the Editor more carefully.
25 posted on 02/01/2005 9:06:44 AM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: chukcha

Which was the lesser evil? Nazi vs Soviet? Both equally evil.Total disregard for humanity.IMO,Hitler would have surpassed Stalin/Lenin.


26 posted on 02/01/2005 9:09:51 AM PST by thombo
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To: chukcha; Joanna Najfeld; lizol
"Cheney toured the Polish camp's brick buildings the day after he represented the United States at events marking the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazis' most notorious death camp."

Source: FOX NEWS, January 28

This is offensive. Cheney toured GERMAN NAZI CAMP'S brick buildings.

27 posted on 02/01/2005 9:14:38 AM PST by DTA
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To: chukcha
"Jews continue to be important in Poland—as an issue, an significant that is significant for everyone, and an obsession for some."

No offense Mr chukcha, but somehow Jews for me aren't "significant issue", so I can't wast hours on discussion about Jews. I read about one-third of your "source" and I generally agree with it, it is a little biased toward Jewish point of view, but generally quite objective, but I don't see any straight connection between this "source" and that article.
28 posted on 02/01/2005 9:14:54 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Joanna Najfeld

I've read it. If you read my message #22 on this thread and, especially, the linked article from the Polish embassy site you will see that they are right.


29 posted on 02/01/2005 9:16:22 AM PST by chukcha
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To: thombo
For those of you fluent in Polish, here is an article on the use of the phrase "Polish Concentration Camps" by some American and Western European mainstream media:

http://dziennik.com/www/dziennik/kult/archiwum/01-06-05/pp-01-28-03.html
30 posted on 02/01/2005 9:18:03 AM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: DTA

WHAITASECOND!

That's FOX, not Nu Ork Times.

Why don't you complain to the big mouth?


31 posted on 02/01/2005 9:19:32 AM PST by chukcha
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To: chukcha
which one was the lesser evil? There's no lesser evil in these matters.

However, if you look at numbers of victims, time span, and cruelty levels (if one can ever compare that), the Communist regime was worse. And it lasts till this day in some parts of the world.
32 posted on 02/01/2005 9:24:24 AM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: chukcha
"If you compared two occupations - German and Russian / Nazi and Soviet - which one was the lesser evil?"

You mean two occupations of Poland ? In 39-41 both were equal, soon after the war Soviet occupation was not much better, but later became a little "better", however then were different condictions - Soviet created puppet government and of course part of Poles were communists. Nazis wanted to destroy Poles until 1975, so we wouldn't exist anymore If they had won the war, but I'm sure they would have changed their mind If they could create Nazi government, find hundreds thousand recruits etc. so generally this is hard to compare two occupations, but in the same conditions they would have been equally bad for Poles.
33 posted on 02/01/2005 9:25:16 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Grzegorz 246
No offense Mr chukcha, but somehow Jews for me aren't "significant issue", ...

I am not offended a bit, man, just this issue of Polish denial of their complicity in killing of their Jews just keeps coming up. It is very frustrating to keep these poor Poles' feet to the fire to get to the truth.

So, don't enforce negative stereotypes about Poles not liking education - finish the article, it is not too long.

The truth will set you free (vs work).
34 posted on 02/01/2005 9:26:21 AM PST by chukcha
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To: chukcha

Just because someone writes an opinionated and slanted piece at the same time identifying himself as a person of Jewish Faith does not mean that he is telling the truth.

I myself am a person of Jewish origin.

Look further than just one link, the truth is out there, you can't deny it.


35 posted on 02/01/2005 9:30:00 AM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: chukcha
Arbeit macht frei, man, so I can't wast today much of my time here, maybe tomorrow.
36 posted on 02/01/2005 9:30:08 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Joanna Najfeld
http://dziennik.com/www/dziennik/kult/archiwum/01-06-05/pp-01-28-03.html"

This is an important article. Can someone translate it and post?

The phrase "Polish concentration Camp" appeared for the first time in 1972. It is evident that it is carefully planted, planned to bear fruit once The Holocaust survivors are not alive any more.

This is NAZI REVISIONISM AT WORK.

37 posted on 02/01/2005 9:30:27 AM PST by DTA
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To: Quinotto

Have you heard the phrase "Transinistria"?

Romania deported Jews from Bessarabia and Bukovina across the Dniestr where most of them were imprisoned in camps and starved to death. Hundreds of thousands died. There were massive pogroms in Iasi, Bucharest, and other cities. Romania's Jews were spared deportation, which by the terrible standards of the Nazi governments makes the Iron Cross look good, but please don't tell us that Antonescu was a protector of the Jews. Everything was about opportunity and whatever value they could get out of the Jewish community as hostages.


38 posted on 02/01/2005 9:30:55 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: DTA

Please, as if there is a single soul in the country reading the article who doesn't know that "Polish" refers only to the location. Most people are pretty well-informed about the link between the Holocaust, the Nazis, and Germany. You shouldn't get upset.


39 posted on 02/01/2005 9:33:08 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: chukcha

The New York Times has a documented history of misusing the phrase Polish Concentration Camps. Look in their archives. Your ignorance on the subject does not change reality.


40 posted on 02/01/2005 9:33:26 AM PST by Joanna Najfeld
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To: Grzegorz 246
...but I'm sure they would have changed their mind ...

???!!! What makes you think so? They liked Zubrowska and panenkas that much?

they could create Nazi government, find hundreds thousand recruits

If I were Polish patriot I would be offended right here. The Germans did not even attempted to create Nazi government. This is Polish biggest "claim to fame" that they never corroborated with Germans. Are you saying it aint so?

I am not going to dispute your assesment that Nazi occupation and life in Communist Poland was the same. You must have experienced summary executions, property confiscations, brutality, etc. I'll take your word for it.
41 posted on 02/01/2005 9:37:06 AM PST by chukcha
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To: Joanna Najfeld
Chaim Shapiro, author of "Go, My Son" (http://www.jewishmediaresources.com/review/316/), was from Lomza, Poland. I can't remember if he told me the following or if it was from a letter to the editor that he wrote. He said that shortly before Germany invaded Poland, the Polish army kicked out all the Jewish soldiers and officers. He said it was because of antisemitism, however it was a hidden blessing, as they were not in the army when it was defeated by Germany. Incidentally, he said that the main Polish army units were cavalry, which were no match for the German motorcycles.
42 posted on 02/01/2005 9:44:48 AM PST by Doneel
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To: Joanna Najfeld
Just because someone writes an opinionated and slanted piece at the same time identifying himself as a person of Jewish Faith does not mean that he is telling the truth.

It is coming from the official Polish government website. It is not just some memoirs of Jews who was there. There are tons of those.

I myself am a person of Jewish origin.

I am beginning to think that half of Poland is Jewish.

Look further than just one link, the truth is out there, you can't deny it.

As I said, there are many links. There are quite a few where people just print fiction. I don't want to engage in "linking" contest.

The article that I sent is a summary. And it is official. That means that there was some standard applied when it was researched and published. So, if you want to direct me somewhere, it should be of the same or similar quality.
43 posted on 02/01/2005 9:49:35 AM PST by chukcha
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To: Doneel
...motorcycles

you mean tanks?
44 posted on 02/01/2005 9:50:52 AM PST by chukcha
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To: Joanna Najfeld
...the Communist regime was worse

This coming from a person with "Jewish origins" is quite frightening.
45 posted on 02/01/2005 9:53:33 AM PST by chukcha
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To: HostileTerritory; Joanna Najfeld
>>>>>>>Most people are pretty well-informed about the link between the Holocaust, the Nazis, and Germany. You shouldn't get upset.<<<<<<

You gotta be kidding. Almost a half of adult Britons have never heard of Auschwitz

And they live within arm's reach of Poland and have many Poles living in England.

It would be interesting to see similar poll in U.S. of A, having in mind American < a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html">affitinty to history and geography

The power of media is REPETITION and FIXATION of ERRONEUS INFORMATION in public mind until it becomes a common knowledge and undisputed 'fact'.

46 posted on 02/01/2005 9:55:45 AM PST by DTA
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To: DTA

I've heard that statistic and I question both its accuracy and its relevance. (In Britain, the camp most associated with the Holocaust is Belsen, because it was liberated by British troops in 1945.)

Those people who have not heard of Auschwitz are very unlikely to be reading articles in the New York Times about its liberation, and they're certainly not going to imprinted with the idea that it was a Polish crime because of one word in the article. If they don't know about it, odds are it's because they don't care.


47 posted on 02/01/2005 9:59:13 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: chukcha
"I'm sure they would have changed their mind If they could create Nazi government"

If they COULD create, maybe I should write could have created... but they couldn't, because very few Poles wanted to collaborate with them. Understood ?

"I am not going to dispute your assesment that Nazi occupation and life in Communist Poland was the same."

I wrote that Communists treated ethnic Poles equally bad in the period of 39-41. Later a little better, but only because many Poles decided to collaborate with them. If Poles had decided to fight against Soviets after WW2, then today you could probably find more Poles in Asian part of Russia than in Central Europe and many mass graves filled with millions of Polish dead bodies.
48 posted on 02/01/2005 10:02:40 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: chukcha

Communists killed more people than Nazis - it should be obvious for everyone with at least basic education. What's your problem ?


49 posted on 02/01/2005 10:04:59 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: chukcha

"I am beginning to think that half of Poland is Jewish."

Why ?


50 posted on 02/01/2005 10:05:28 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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