Posted on 12/04/2004 7:12:24 PM PST by chashand
To anyone of the Open Borders Mindset (including the Prez) effective immigration and border control is always impossible. Every excuse under the sun is made for the gross and wanton lack of immigration control. Yet our government can find billions of dollars for foreign aid giveaways and many more billions for taking over whole countries. The excuses aren't selling anymore.
As to Fox, he has not received anything but lip service, if that.
As to Fox (and Thugs), like I said, he has OUR politicians tripping over themselves to acquiece to his demands that we take in many millions more of HIS people and burden the already greatly burdened U.S. taxpayer to pay ever more for their welfare. Bush's own highly unpopular Amnesty plan is prima face evidence of Fox's influence in our government.
And with Mexico opening up Consular Offices in every one of our major cities if you can't see that as a threat to our sovereignty I have to ask just what does constitute in your mind a loss of sovereignty?
Accept it and stop trying to prevent something that has already happened. This is why the control of the numbers and subsequently the assimilation is so very important. We want a American Hispanic voting block and not Balkanization.
I, like most real Americans will never accept this ongoing government sponsored invasion of my country. If it takes new leadership to get the government to do their job of protecting America then that’s what I think will ultimately happen. And CLUE: we already are Balkanized in large areas of the country and assimilation cannot occur when the influx of immigrants vastly exceeds our ability to absorb them.
You, like Bush, want to exacerbate this disaster even further. Tell me, do you have some sort of economic stake in Mexico's invasion of America? Your attempts at defending the indefensible would suggest so.
If the current mess that we can immigration code continues, the assimilation will not occur as it should and a isolated angry voting block will emerge to a far greater degree than one can imagine.
LOL, the Open Borders Lobby has already created an angry voting block and most legal Hispanics don't like illegal immigration anymore than most Americans. If you want to see a political backlash just watch what happens if Bush gets his way.
No one on my side of this argument is trying to give away sovereignty. On the contrary, we are trying to protect it.
No one on your side believes in sovereignty... you've made that point abundantly clear.
When someone of Bush's (alleged) intelligence is pushing a suicidal plan such as this despite protestations from millions of Americans leads me to believe he's either bought off (FTAA?) or compromised in some fashion......surely he and his advisors are not this stupid.
Tom Tancredo coming up on CNN any minute/Judy Woodruff/Inside politcs.
OK bub, I think you have made your point quite clear. (I would like to hear you define a "Real American", but I don't think I have the patience to listen to it)
You, like Bush, want to exacerbate this disaster even further. Tell me, do you have some sort of economic stake in Mexico's invasion of America? Your attempts at defending the indefensible would suggest so. I could answer that in the negative, but it really does not matter. I am laughing too hard.
I have to ask just what does constitute in your mind a loss of sovereignty?
Consular offices ain't it! If it were, the entire planet would be at war.
No one on your side believes in sovereignty...
Not your version. If we had your version, we would not be the leader of the free world. Perhaps you and Pat Buchanan can buy an island in the Pacific.You would be fully capable of controlling the kind of people who enter your domain. It should be quite blissful.
Real Americans put America's Interests before Party and Personal Interests. Sadly, a good percentage of Republicans these days have it the other way around. The first impulse is to spin for party leaders regardless of the merits of an issue. And positions they would normally bash a democrat on is forgiven if a Republican does it.
But I'll confess that I should not have put in the qualifier "real" before Americans. Yes, there are very good citizens that can differ greatly on this and other issues. You are perhaps one of them. How you arrive at your opinions/beliefs on this matter I do find very perplexing however.
I could answer that in the negative, but it really does not matter. I am laughing too hard.
Funny, I get the same reaction when reading your posts. Especially when you talk about how Bush's open ended amnesty is going to add security to the current open border madness as millions more pile into this country and our government can't even track the 15mm or so Illegals already in the country. I mean that is quite hilarious. If I didn’t know you, I would be looking for sarcasm tags.
Consular offices ain't it! If it were, the entire planet would be at war.
Evidently hundreds of Mexican Nationals lobbying OUR governmental officials to legislate laws, rules, programs on behalf of the INTERESTS of Mexico at the Expense of America, does not bother you. If so, it really says a lot about you.
Not your version. If we had your version, we would not be the leader of the free world. Perhaps you and Pat Buchanan can buy an island in the Pacific.
America was not the leader of the free world (in your world) before the government opened up our borders and gates to massive 3rd world immigration? That's news to me. In your world, is being against illegal immigration and mass 3rd world immigration Isolationist? By inference I would say so.
You can pretend there is no middle ground on the issue of immigration by labeling folks Isolationists because they have problems with little things like Invasions and misguided immigration policies but just like the race card, that old worn out Tactic is no longer very effective in stifling debate. Too many people are waking up to the Open Borders Lobby, their propaganda and the damage it has caused America. Truth is, it's the Open Borders Lobby that is on the extreme side of this issue and way out of the American mainstream.
And if you want an idea of what America is going to look like in a couple decades of more of the same out of control/anything goes immigration think “Argentina”. How could it not be an over-sized version of that?
Under a fully implemented work program, I suspect that there will be little need for advocacy, except for the usual labor stuff.
As it stands now, most of the advocacy needs stem from the inept laws we currently try to enforce.
Secondly, ex-pat workers are free to go home, return and are not going to need assistance. When their permits expire, they will go home and wait for the long line of green card applicants to get shorter, but they will not be here doing it, if we do this right.
On the contrary, the flood gates will be closed to illegal immigration and a normal situation will emerge as the program propagates.
Currently, the more we forbid entry, the worse the situation gets. Especially for those who are here. They become trapped while looking for seasonal work. We made it worse. Much worse, by not allowing a temporary worker status in line with what our needs are.
Bush just wants to fix it. He is not giving anything away.
But, I don't expect you will ever understand what I am saying, or why.
Like you, I too, fail to see your logic. You continue to advocate more of the same, when we know that it does not work. Yet you believe that for some reason we just did not try hard enough.
I view this as being similar to the drug problem. The more you prohibit it and attempt to control it without controlling the demand side of the equation, the worse the problem gets.
You mean once we cave to Mexico and their alien advocacy groups they will stop making more demands? Oh yeah, sure, that fits right in with their nature. NOT. Let me submit to you that those advocacy groups (with Mexico at their side) will greatly escalate their demands for even more special rights, welfare and privileges once they realize we are Weaker than they thought we were. It's how things work in Mexico and why it is such a screwed up country. They have little appreciation for the rule of law and concepts of fairness. You seem incredibility naive here.
As it stands now, most of the advocacy needs stem from the inept laws we currently try to enforce.
We don't try to enforce anything...that IS the problem.
Secondly, ex-pat workers are free to go home, return and are not going to need assistance. When their permits expire, they will go home and wait for the long line of green card applicants to get shorter, but they will not be here doing it, if we do this right.
First, most will not go home. They don't now and when they marry and have kids it ain't gonna happen and you know it. That's another of the ludicrous promises being made to sell this fiasco to the American People. I ask again, when our government's past history with Amnesties is littered with failures to enforce amnesty provisions, broken promises and complete neglect what is the basis of your belief that it will be any different this time around?
On the contrary, the flood gates will be closed to illegal immigration and a normal situation will emerge as the program propagates.
Sorry, as usual, you got it 100% backwards. The flood gates are going to open up much more than they are now. Bush has already stated that he wants much higher immigration quotas to cover the tidal wave of immigration that his amnesty plan anticipates with employer/employee matching. You think by converting Illegal to Legal makes any difference when America is flooded up to its armpits with Mexican peasants?
Bush just wants to fix it. He is not giving anything away.
Bush wants to fix nothing other than prepare the ground for a merger with Mexico, which will effectively end our sovereignty.
But, I don't expect you will ever understand what I am saying, or why.
No, I don’t. None of your arguments are rooted in reality and the past histories of amnesties. It’s all based on hope and naiveté especially where Mr. Bush is concerned.
Like you, I too, fail to see your logic. You continue to advocate more of the same, when we know that it does not work. Yet you believe that for some reason we just did not try hard enough.
No, you again have me entirely wrong. I don't advocate more of the same. I am advocating removing all the attractions for illegal immigration: welfare, employment, anchor babies--the works--coupled with much more effective border control. You like Bush want to reward illegal immigration and the lawlessness it breeds. That's why Bush's proposal will never work the way you think it will...
I view this as being similar to the drug problem. The more you prohibit it and attempt to control it without controlling the demand side of the equation, the worse the problem gets.
America never had a crisis in illegal immigration until the liberals created incentives for it. Remove the incentives and most of the problem goes away.
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