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The Antidepressant Dilemma (long read)
NY Times ^ | November 21, 2004 | JONATHAN MAHLER

Posted on 11/20/2004 7:07:55 PM PST by neverdem

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To: Highwayman53
Sorry to hear about the loss.

It's true without a doubt. I was having some stress issues at work. Like any law abiding person; I go to the doctor for some help. He gives me Zoloft. It helped for a couple of months, but after about three months I literally felt like killing myself sometimes. Something as little as a small disagreement with my with would trigger such emotions.

I stopped taking it after realizing that certainly wasn't normal. I haven't felt like that since. They need to pull that junk from the pharmacies. By the way, I went back to the doc and he didn't want me to stop taking it, even after telling him about it. He said I needed to give it more time to "work".

51 posted on 11/22/2004 6:36:15 PM PST by KoRn
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To: Hoodlum91
When I was on Zoloft, my doc told me the effects wouldn't kick in until the 4th week or so.

Trust me, the side effects can kick in in less than a week.

52 posted on 11/22/2004 8:06:05 PM PST by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: Al B.

I am sure Dr. Mann is completely forthcoming.


53 posted on 11/22/2004 8:07:21 PM PST by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: valkyrieanne
This is criminal. The parents should have sued the doctor as well

While they're at it, they should sue themselves, for not paying enough attention to what was happening to their kid after they moved across town into their shiny new house because "Mark was doing so well."

They ripped the son out of an environment where he was popular and doing well, and dropped him into a place where he had no friends and had trouble being accepted. That's difficult when you're twelve years old. That kid started going down the tubes almost immediately after the move. He was throwing off almost every kind of "child in distress" warning, from getting into trouble to having his grades go to pot.

These parents are consumed with guilt because they know they did this. Them lashing out at drug companies and doctors is just their way of trying to deflect blame that they know is theirs. What was needed here was some parenting. And they didn't do it. They just watched the kid go down the tubes, and finally turned to a doctor in desperation.

None of this has anything to do with the general case of adolescents and SSRI's; I'm not a doctor and I won't play one on the Internet. But this particular case sounds to me to be more about parents who were more concerned about their material well-being and status than they were about the emotional and spiritual well-being of their child. They've got an "Always an A-B student" suddenly put into a "special needs class." Hello? Earth to Mom and Dad! Danger Will Robinson! Whoop! Whoop! What do they do? Schedule something for the Summer, when it would be more convenient... for them. Oh yeah, this was all the fault of those nasty drug companies. Feh.


54 posted on 11/22/2004 8:11:34 PM PST by Nick Danger (Want some wood?)
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To: Nov3

Well, 'Dr' Peter Breggin is a clam.... and a fraud.


55 posted on 11/22/2004 8:13:53 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: 'War or Peace'--)
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To: neverdem

BTTT


56 posted on 11/22/2004 8:20:44 PM PST by spodefly (I've posted nothing but BTTT over 1000 times!!!)
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To: Nick Danger

Bravo for the oratory, but that was MATT not MARK


57 posted on 11/23/2004 12:00:58 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: The Red Zone

"They liked Lenexa, but Mark was doing well, and they could afford a bigger house in a more upscale neighborhood."


58 posted on 11/23/2004 12:30:01 AM PST by Nick Danger (Want some wood?)
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To: Nick Danger

Yes, Mark was doing well ... salarywise. He was the dad. He wanted to move to a tonier neighborhood. Thus starteth the kid's (MATT) problems. Try reading more of the article.


59 posted on 11/23/2004 12:34:01 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: The Red Zone

Try reading my reply. I know who the kid was. They moved becaused "Mark" was doing well. And what the hell are either of us doing up at this hour?


60 posted on 11/23/2004 12:40:48 AM PST by Nick Danger (Want some wood?)
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To: Nick Danger

Well, ambiguous at best. A similar story could have read that the parents fatuously ignored the ongoing welfare of a kid who, in their eyes, seemed to be doing well (at first).

Anyhow, when I see "environment" blamed for [fill in the blank] doing poorly, I tend to roll my eyes. Especially when the change is to any ordinary eyes, benign. They had no a priori reason to fear problems with the kid in a richer neighborhood simply BECAUSE it was richer. That reads like liberal moneyguilt whineyspeak.


61 posted on 11/23/2004 12:53:28 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: neverdem
Still, he was clinging to his old friends more tightly than the Millers had hoped. On weekends, Mark and Cheryl often found themselves driving him to and from Lenexa. For a while, the Millers thought Matt was just going through a normal period of adjustment; a few months in, though, they noticed a change. ''At the beginning of the school year, Matt was getting calls from girls all the time,'' Cheryl, a petite woman in a stylish gray jacket and black pants, told me. ''But around Christmas we saw things weren't connecting for him as well. The kids weren't letting him in. He started getting quiet, withdrawn.'' The Millers' theory is that the other boys were jealous. ''We think some of the guys were blocking him out because all of the girls were calling him,'' Mark said. ''He probably crossed somebody with someone's girlfriend.''

His grades were falling. Always an A-B student -- he had excelled in math in particular -- he now had a D and an F. In February, Matt was caught forging his father's signature on several midterm progress reports. The Millers were called to the school for a conference. As the second semester continued, Matt's problems multiplied. One of his teachers reported that Matt was breaking pencils in class and failing to interact with his classmates. Several instances of ''unsatisfactory conduct'' were brought to the attention of the principal.

It seems that , with all the 'thoughts' and "probablys" in here, that no one was really talking with Matt, and that includes his parents.

The Millers, who knew by now that Matt was unhappy though they weren't sure why, thought this was a good idea. They were eager to help Matt while school was not in session; that way, he could start fresh in the fall. They initially wanted Matt to see a social worker recommended by the school, but their insurance did not cover that therapist. In the end, they chose a psychiatrist, telling themselves that this might be for the best in case medication was required. Matt didn't want to go. ''He said to me, 'Mom, I'm not crazy,''' Cheryl recalled. Mark added: ''I remember telling him, 'Matt, this is good.' We would all love to pay someone to help us work through our problems.''

Look, I'm not judging anyone here, but imho, this kid needed someone to spend some TIME with him, talking about 'stuff', not being palmed off on a bunch of 'professionals' who are NO substitute for someone who gives a damn and is not watching the clock.

They give the impression of typical climbers seeking a bromide solution for every problem, as long as it is not too expensive (insurance picked up the tab, or he would have gone to someone else!--their first choice) or inconvenient.

Puberty has got to be the roughest time for a kid, friendships change, even without a move, your hormones are screaming, you are confronted by situations you just don't know how to handle. You need PARENTS, a mentor, an uncle, grandfather, someone you can bounce stuff off of. Someone to just listen while you sort things out. Someone who gives a damn and isn't there for the paycheck.

I thank God that I had that. I pray for the kids who don't.

Yes, I think drugs are dangerous, especially when you already are going through all the crap I just mentioned. You don't need some junk in your system to add to the confusion, you just might need a friend to help to work things out.

62 posted on 11/23/2004 1:44:45 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (I'm from North Dakota and I'm all FOR Global Warming! Bring it ON!)
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To: nonliberal
I too have had some success with Lexapro.

FWIW, and as someone who's dealt with depression for years now, I'm with the folks here who've argued the parents are doing some guilt transference onto the drug company. Would it have ruined the parents' lives if they'd just stayed in the neighborhood where the kid was comfortable?

63 posted on 11/23/2004 2:00:02 AM PST by Heatseeker
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To: softengine

bump for later.


64 posted on 11/23/2004 7:39:56 AM PST by softengine (We MUST bust Sandy "I stuff my pants" Berger.)
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To: Cogadh na Sith

He was right almost down the list.


65 posted on 11/23/2004 11:11:04 AM PST by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: FreeKeys
Thanks for your post. It is very interesting. I have struggled with depression since I was probably 13 or 14 (I am 29 now). I have taken zoloft and wellbutrin in the past, but things were okay recently and I haven't been taking anything. I still had low moments or days, but nothing too harsh.

I was reading about the benefits of flax seed oil and saw that it contains Omega 3 and 6 efa's and may be beneficial in treating depression. I have been taking it for about 2 or 3 weeks and I feel like a new person. I take it with breakfast and lunch. I have so much energy I have to exercise to burn it off. I laugh easier. I am more alert. I had some digestive problems that are all but gone. For years I have been on the search for the perfect lotion because my skin, especially my legs, was always dry, within about 4 days I noticed a difference (for the better!) in my skin and my hair is softer. In short, I feel better. I didn't even feel like this on the antidepressants.

I've never been a big meat or fish eater, so maybe all these years it was just a nutritional deficiency??
66 posted on 11/23/2004 11:25:45 AM PST by retrokitten (Hell yeah!)
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To: Highwayman53

I am so sorry for your loss. God bless you and your family.


67 posted on 11/23/2004 11:27:19 AM PST by retrokitten (Hell yeah!)
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To: retrokitten
I've never been a big meat or fish eater, so maybe all these years it was just a nutritional deficiency??

Hmmm. It's quite possible. I take omega-3's, dessicated liver and lots of B-vitamins myself. And amino-acid chelated Cal-Mag-Zinc. But the things that have helped me the most have been getting a Jack LaLanne Juicer and walking 3 miles a day every day (which was no easy feat at first for a former couch potato; I had to work up to it slowly!). After about 50 minutes or so I get a "runner's high" even though I only walk at 3mph; I dimly remember hearing various endorphins, hormones and fat-burning enzymes are released at about the 55-minute mark, and I have lost a lot of weight on a low-fat high-juice diet.

Glad to hear you're feeling good a lot!

68 posted on 11/23/2004 2:08:13 PM PST by FreeKeys (Learn the REAL story of THANKSGIVING - copy and paste THIS: http://freedomkeys.com/thanksgiving2.htm)
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To: Heatseeker

I agree. Nobody does anything "for the kids" anymore. Would it have killed anyone to wait until the kid graduated to move so they are not starting a new school their senior year?


69 posted on 11/23/2004 6:52:29 PM PST by nonliberal (Up the feces tributary without a means of locomotion.)
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To: nonliberal
As Smokin' Joe said, what these kids need in their lives is more personal contact, not more drugs.
70 posted on 11/23/2004 9:38:09 PM PST by Heatseeker
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