The Antidepressant Dilemma (long read)

NY Times ^ | November 21, 2004 | JONATHAN MAHLER

[Aliska]

Doctors make mistakes so the Internet is more appealing to you?

Not at all. I wouldn't self-medicate from the internet. I sought out discussion groups because I have known a lot of people with problems and mine is different from anyone I have ever known until I found the internet discussion groups and found out that people who have both depression and anxiety can have serious problems going on anti-depressants. I never knew that before and no doctor ever told me that specifically.

I wouldn't have said anything at all in this discussion, but I kind of wanted to warn readers that some drugs that work great for some people are disasters for others, and the doctors don't know for sure until they try them on you.

I shouldn't have said doctors make mistakes. It is a trial and error process in most cases with these meds, and most doctors do the best they can.

The only reason I said anything at all is that I don't want anyone else to go through some of the things I have been through. Sometimes you have to assert yourself with your doctors and stop taking things that are affecting you adversely and look for something more suitable.

Sometimes tranquillizers will get you over the hump, but they are really pushing the SSRI's right now for some reason. You cannot go off them cold turkey but have to taper off.

[grey_whiskers]

Interesting. Two questions:

a) Sources for this?
b) What is Prozac prescribed for IN TEENAGERS anyway?

[Nov3]

God, I miss my son! I wish the FDA would get it's act together regarding anti-depressants.

My heart goes out to you. Having two little girls I can't comprehend how you feel.

However that doesn't matter to these people. There is too much money in it for them to worry about little things - like your son. These bastards in the FDA are setting themselves up for cushy jobs at Eli-Lilly etc after they oversee the drugs the same companies put out. A personal experience with a surgical tool company opened my eyes to the fact that there are people who will sit in an office and let people get blinded, maimed or killed for a decent salary. It was an ugly revelation.

Trial lawyers and punitive damages do have a place. The corporate veil for some circumstances has to be limited.

God Bless You.

[Nov3]

No one has accused anyone of being a Scientologist yet

[Nov3]

''The vast majority of teen suicides are actually committed in the absence of antidepressants.''

Actually that stat is meaningless. It is the relative rate that is an issue. Children who take antidepressant do kill themselves at a higher rate. It has been argued and denied for years. Now the major drug companies are putting warnings on their product. Irrational and homocidal behavior is next.

[Hoodlum91]

Absolutely true.

When I was on Zoloft, my doc told me the effects wouldn't kick in until the 4th week or so. It sounds as if the "therapy" session, followed by girlfriend issues, pushed him over.

My concern with these drugs are side effects that are not listed. Both Zoloft and Prozac can cause huge weight gain. The argument is that it happens to such a small percentage of people, that the companies don't need to list it. I put on almost 100 pounds in only 2 1/2 years before they attributed it to the Zoloft (my thyroid quit at the same time, so I was doubly hit) I went off Zoloft and lost 30lbs in 3 weeks!!! Since then, everyone I speak to mentions that they gained weight while on these drugs as well. (BTW, I'm still losing the weight. About 30 lbs to go. I'm in year 3 of taking off. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS DRUG TO ANYONE!!! It's weird, but acupuncture did wonders for me)

This is still not a recognized side effect.

[Al B.]

Re: Your quote from the article from Dr. John Mann:

In the interest of full disclosure, Dr. Joseph John Mann of Columbia is a paid consultant and expert witness in court cases for both Glaxo and Pfizer. Dr. Mann testified on behalf of Glaxo in the Schell case mentioned in this article. It's the only case lost at trial over this issue.

Dr. Mann has also received funding from Eli Lilly to promote the safety of antidepressants.

[neverdem]

In the interest of full disclosure, Dr. Joseph John Mann of Columbia is a paid consultant and expert witness in court cases for both Glaxo and Pfizer. Dr. Mann testified on behalf of Glaxo in the Schell case mentioned in this article. It's the only case lost at trial over this issue.

I find that quite interesting because I have an irrational, inherent distrust of folks who don't like their first, given name.

Before you made that statement, overall, I thought the article was pretty good, balanced and comprehensive. Now, I'm wondering.

[Al B.]

Now, I'm wondering.

I'm glad you are.  In reading your comments in the threads you've put up on this issue, including our exchange on a recent thread, I've sensed that you're struggling with this. Good luck in your journey.

Although I'm sure most will laud this article as balanced, there's plenty wrong with it IMO....mainly factual omissions such as the one I pointed out.

[neverdem]

Please address any omissions that you find.

I thought the struggle was obvious. Primum, non nocere. Translate Latin. First, do no harm.

Any corrections are always appreciated.

[KoRn]

Sorry to hear about the loss.

It's true without a doubt. I was having some stress issues at work. Like any law abiding person; I go to the doctor for some help. He gives me Zoloft. It helped for a couple of months, but after about three months I literally felt like killing myself sometimes. Something as little as a small disagreement with my with would trigger such emotions.

I stopped taking it after realizing that certainly wasn't normal. I haven't felt like that since. They need to pull that junk from the pharmacies. By the way, I went back to the doc and he didn't want me to stop taking it, even after telling him about it. He said I needed to give it more time to "work".

[Nov3]

When I was on Zoloft, my doc told me the effects wouldn't kick in until the 4th week or so.

Trust me, the side effects can kick in in less than a week.

[Nov3]

I am sure Dr. Mann is completely forthcoming.

[Nick Danger]

This is criminal. The parents should have sued the doctor as well

While they're at it, they should sue themselves, for not paying enough attention to what was happening to their kid after they moved across town into their shiny new house because "Mark was doing so well."

They ripped the son out of an environment where he was popular and doing well, and dropped him into a place where he had no friends and had trouble being accepted. That's difficult when you're twelve years old. That kid started going down the tubes almost immediately after the move. He was throwing off almost every kind of "child in distress" warning, from getting into trouble to having his grades go to pot.

These parents are consumed with guilt because they know they did this. Them lashing out at drug companies and doctors is just their way of trying to deflect blame that they know is theirs. What was needed here was some parenting. And they didn't do it. They just watched the kid go down the tubes, and finally turned to a doctor in desperation.

None of this has anything to do with the general case of adolescents and SSRI's; I'm not a doctor and I won't play one on the Internet. But this particular case sounds to me to be more about parents who were more concerned about their material well-being and status than they were about the emotional and spiritual well-being of their child. They've got an "Always an A-B student" suddenly put into a "special needs class." Hello? Earth to Mom and Dad! Danger Will Robinson! Whoop! Whoop! What do they do? Schedule something for the Summer, when it would be more convenient... for them. Oh yeah, this was all the fault of those nasty drug companies. Feh.

[Cogadh na Sith]

Well, 'Dr' Peter Breggin is a clam.... and a fraud.

[spodefly]

BTTT

[The Red Zone]

Bravo for the oratory, but that was MATT not MARK

[Nick Danger]

"They liked Lenexa, but Mark was doing well, and they could afford a bigger house in a more upscale neighborhood."

[The Red Zone]

Yes, Mark was doing well ... salarywise. He was the dad. He wanted to move to a tonier neighborhood. Thus starteth the kid's (MATT) problems. Try reading more of the article.

[Nick Danger]

Try reading my reply. I know who the kid was. They moved becaused "Mark" was doing well. And what the hell are either of us doing up at this hour?