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The Antidepressant Dilemma (long read)
NY Times ^ | November 21, 2004 | JONATHAN MAHLER

Posted on 11/20/2004 7:07:55 PM PST by neverdem

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To: EGPWS
Where did your lack of trust in Doctors first originate to place such trust in the Internet?

Because they made so many mistakes in my treatment over the years. They just have to make an educated guess about what might work for you. Can you say "guinea pig"? They don't really know and just start trying a drug and switching to another or a combo until they find something that seems to work. Sometimes if you are on a drug long-term, it quits working. Sometimes a drug only does half the job but it is better than not being able to function at all.

I was once put on a drug (mao inhibitor). I woke up about 8 times a night, felt like laying down in the park and finally lost control of my bladder. I had to threaten to get a lawyer if I had to take any more of that. How many sick people have the courage to take on a powerful doctor? They have the power to throw you in a state hospital if you don't cooperate in taking your meds and the courts back them up.

It depends on the illness. People with schizophrenia are particularly at the mercy of their doctors.

I suffer with anxiety/depression with some ocd behavior which is difficult to treat.

In the beginning, I took whatever they dished out without questioning any of it. Neither did my family because everyone is frightened of and for a family member who suffers from psychological disorders. And everybody trusts doctors.

I shudder to think what they are doing to some helpless people who are unable to articulate what is going on inside or are in nursing homes, etc. People should *always* have a second or third opinion and *never* trust one primary care giver, even if there can be some conflict over professional turf in the process.

21 posted on 11/20/2004 8:48:25 PM PST by Aliska
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To: neverdem

My apologies. I'm so tired I'm not thinking (not that tiredness has that much to do with it). Nomatter whether the USDA is basing their assumptions on Americans eating 5 servings of fresh fruits and vegetables a day or not, and nomatter whether my recollection of what they had to say is accurate or not, the point really is: MD's SHOULD test each referenced patient for those nutrients from which serotonin is made BEFORE they make THEIR hurried decisions, whether they are to prescribe nutrient supplements, prescription meds or whatever.

As far as which nutrients the body needs to actually synthesize serotonin is concerned, I'm sure a minimal amount of Googling will get you there. Sorry to be so brusk (before my head hits the keyboard!).


22 posted on 11/20/2004 8:56:42 PM PST by FreeKeys ("'Solve' and 'problems' are not in the Constitution." -- Doug Newman)
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To: neverdem

Did anybody give thought that these people might be killing themselves caused they ARE depressed?


23 posted on 11/20/2004 8:59:27 PM PST by TwoBear (Go Big Orange!)
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To: neverdem
In 2002, 11 million antidepressant prescriptions were written for children and adolescents in the United States.

For anyone on antidepressants, ritalin, or other psycotropic drugs, or if considering taking them please visit www.breggin.com

24 posted on 11/20/2004 9:00:04 PM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: Highwayman53

I'm sorry about your loss.
I've been on anti-depressents for many years myself and it's hard to decide if I'm better off on the meds than off them.


25 posted on 11/20/2004 9:03:24 PM PST by MeekMom (When are the Hollyweirds moving to Canada/France?)
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To: neverdem
This is criminal. The parents should have sued the doctor as well, who was getting tens of thousands of dollars yearly as a shill for these drugs.

As long as parents are "looking for a miracle" (as the parents in the article put it), and as long as doctors are making quick & easy profits, no one has any motivation to look into the *behavioral* and *alternative* treatments for depression available. Of course, as the article also says, many of the things which *cause* teenagers to be depressed are considered "unchangeable" (when in actuality they are NOT.)

26 posted on 11/20/2004 9:08:21 PM PST by valkyrieanne (card-carrying South Park Republican)
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To: ChocChipCookie
Does anyone know if Zoloft has a similar affect on adults?

I just checked the precautions for a number of SSRIs. All of their precautions included watching for suicidal tendencies or suicidal ideation. The distinction between adolescence and adulthood is somewhat arbitrary. Suicide is the worst outcome of untreated depression. I would be wary for about the first 6 weeks that someone started taking a SSRI to be on the safe side. I'm always leary about adverse drug reactions.

27 posted on 11/20/2004 9:10:17 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: Dont Mention the War; Aliska

Both of you make excellent points - the key here seems to be that these drugs for many people may be *too dangerous* in the first month or so without hospitalization. But insurance companies won't pay for 4-6 weeks of hospitalization (they usually provide only 10 days or so.) Obviously for some it's not enough.


28 posted on 11/20/2004 9:12:02 PM PST by valkyrieanne (card-carrying South Park Republican)
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To: TwoBear
Did anybody give thought that these people might be killing themselves caused they ARE depressed?

Perhaps. But my son was prescribed paxil for anxiety and tried to kill himself. He wasn't depressed.

The particular side effect of restlessness/agitation seems to be the precursor.

29 posted on 11/20/2004 9:16:24 PM PST by Dianna
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To: Aliska
Because they made so many mistakes in my treatment over the years.

Doctors make mistakes so the Internet is more appealing to you?

Personally I am taking Paxil, because I explained to my Doctor that I have been having trouble sleeping since my aortic dissection surgery.

I felt that the 20mgs was too strong for me and I self medicated to 10mgs and with the approval of my Doctor all is well.

Point being, if you are dissatisfied with treatment by your doctor, why would you go to the Internet for comfort in knowing that your treatment would be better?

Unless of course, for some personal reason you have a distaste for proved medical service I would recommend that you seek another Doctor before going to the Internet when it is your health that is at stake.

30 posted on 11/20/2004 9:19:15 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: valkyrieanne
Both of you make excellent points - the key here seems to be that these drugs for many people may be *too dangerous* in the first month or so without hospitalization. But insurance companies won't pay for 4-6 weeks of hospitalization (they usually provide only 10 days or so.) Obviously for some it's not enough.

I'd be happy if Dr's would mention that restlessness/agitation is a MAJOR warning sign. I was told about insomnia, I was told about appetite problems. No one mentioned restlessness.

I was still trying to find out from my child's teacher what she meant by "having difficulty controlling himself, physically" meant when my son tried to kill himself in her classroom.

31 posted on 11/20/2004 9:19:55 PM PST by Dianna
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To: neverdem

Someone realy ought to redo "Bowling for Columbine" exposing the real reason those boys did what they did. Moore goes to such bizarre lengths to prove America is a violent culture and guns are evil and Charlton Heston is the devil. the truth is much simpler: The 2 Columbine boys were on a combanation of Prozac and Ritalin, which has been proven in a Cornell study to produce feelings of rage, persecution and paranoia, with violent tendencies at a rate 100x that of Prozac or Ritalin alone.


32 posted on 11/20/2004 9:26:05 PM PST by montag813
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To: MeekMom

There is a good story though...Lexapro has changed my life for the better and the lives of others I know.


33 posted on 11/20/2004 9:53:22 PM PST by nonliberal (Up the feces tributary without a means of locomotion.)
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To: neverdem

Was there some studies showing that the number of suicide has steadily decreased since SSRI as introduced?


34 posted on 11/20/2004 10:18:02 PM PST by Fishing-guy
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To: Fishing-guy
Was there some studies showing that the number of suicide has steadily decreased since SSRI as introduced?

From the article:

Studies have shown that areas in which antidepressant use among young people is widespread have experienced a dip in teenage suicide rates; according to Dr. John Mann, a suicide expert at Columbia University, fewer than 20 percent of the 4,000 adolescents who commit suicide in America each year are taking or have ever taken antidepressants. ''It would be ludicrous to think that antidepressants could actually contribute to suicide in the United States in any kind of significant way,'' Mann told me. ''The vast majority of teen suicides are actually committed in the absence of antidepressants.''

35 posted on 11/20/2004 10:34:15 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Both of them took a month off from work.

Little bit late there with that, aren't you, bow-tie daddy and soft-bowed-blouse mommy?

36 posted on 11/20/2004 11:05:49 PM PST by fire_eye (Socialism is the opiate of academia.)
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To: neverdem

Sounds strange that the suicide is attributed to merely one week of medication. It is counterintuitive: one would think that much greater exposure would be needed for serious side effects. Seems like the case was worse than garden variety depression.


37 posted on 11/20/2004 11:32:00 PM PST by GSlob
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To: neverdem

Currently using Wellbutrin, which doesn't have the side effects that Zoluft has, but has done nothing but make me amgry and irritable.


38 posted on 11/21/2004 2:36:25 AM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: neverdem

I will bet that the good Dr. was getting rewards (kickbacks) for the number of scripts per week!


39 posted on 11/21/2004 3:30:14 AM PST by stockpirate (Not we must take our mandate and do the deed.)
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To: neverdem

Not a word in the article about dopamine - and interactions w/ sleep, dopamine, and these drugs.

Should be.

Incredible read.


40 posted on 11/21/2004 5:32:16 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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