Well, We're WAITING....
Posted on 11/10/2004 10:33:43 AM PST by Willie Green
For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.
New Delhi, Nov. 10 (NNN): America is likely to lose its overall lead in technology and innovation sector to Asian nations such as India, China, South Korea, Malaysia, Taiwan and Singapore, according to a top foreign policy expert.
Adam Segal, Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations writes in the latest issue of Foreign Affairs that though American technical dominance remains solid, the globalisation of research and development is exerting considerable pressure on the American system.
In addition to the increasing science and research and development budgets, India, China, South Korea and Taiwan are now shifting from top-down, state directed technology policies to more flexible, market-oriented approaches, Segal pointed out.
The US will never be able to prevent other countries from developing new technologies, he said, adding it can remain dominant only by continuing to innovate faster than others but 'that won't be easy.'
Segal further writes that the number of Americans pursuing advanced degrees in the sciences and engineering is declining, and university science and engineering programmes are growing more dependent on foreign-born talent.
In particular, Indian companies, he pointed out, are quickly becoming the second-largest producers of application services in the world, developing, supplying, and managing data bases and other types of software for clients around the world.
Also, the percentage of patents issued to and science journal articles published by scientists in China, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan is rising. South Korea has rapidly eaten away at the U.S. advantage in the manufacture of computer chips and telecommunications software.
don't worry, we'll have tons of new illegal immigrants who'll be coming and shipping dollars back to Vicente Fox in Mexico.
I suppose that's why they wanted to come to school in the USA.
I know. I'm being sarcastic.
I know, ;^)
LOL. I figured you did!
Great! Maybe we can finally get some software that works.
Well why not--We train 'em and ship 'em jobs thanks to Microsoft, etc.
Oooooooo.... Mr. Newbie grows impatient!
I've been offering a solution for a looooong time around here.
We need a level playing field that offers the economic incentive to attract our best and brightest to these vital sectors that are under attack.
A shift in federal tax policy is the simplest way to accommodate this. Levy a relatively low (10~15%), flat-rate "revenue tariff" on ALL imported goods, and couple that with a corresponding reduction in the domestic corporate income tax. That policy shift would make our domestic market less hostile to business investment, and the employment opportunities would become more attractive to our most educated and creative citizens.
As long as highschools and colleges teach that science and technology are out-dated, Euro-centric failures and the really important stuff is Marxism and queer theory, this trend is likely to continue.
its a done deal already. US tech is dead. the comment in the article about americans bailing out on engineering degrees is the death knell for the future.
but we will have plenty of lawyers!
the only other possibility is a collapse in the dollar, to make the investment of US companies on offshore efforts more expensive. but china would have to drop their peg, and we would need a 40-50% decline in the dollar to make this happen. that would be $5 gas.
Well I knew that you figured that I knew that you knew that I knew you were.
But if it's so obvious to US, why is Dubya so clueless?
Maybe then we'll buy back all of our 7-11 stores!
because it's in the same category as the illegal immigration.
and the Ramadan parties at all the offical U.S. Gov't buildings.
*sigh*
"Belisaurius" is a relative newbie also.
Why the multiple personalities? (The PTB frown on that.)
I've been able to get along here for over 6½ years with only one.
Yeah right.
"No, I said DEBIT. DEB IT. It's supposed to DEB IT the 405 account. No, not deck lit. DEB IT!! Yes, DEB IT the 405. NO, not the forty-five account. THE FOUR OH FIVE account. Make a 4 then a zero then a 5. FOUR OH FIVE. Debit the 405 account. Got that. OK. Now the next line. CRED IT the 607 account. No, not crack it. CRED IT".
Thank you! Come again!
Another thread for the Pollyannas to show up and tell us it's all a crock.
I just went through that routine with one of the major airlines after picking up Mom at the airport. (Lost luggage -- again.) Two days of badgering 'em online and over the automated phone system. (No real people.) FINALLY, (without the promised phone call), the barely english-speaking delivery guy shows up at the front door with the lost suitcase. After I signed for it, he just wanted to stand there, apparently trying to apologize for the delay and blaming the flooded roads and traffic tie-ups we've had (happens every time it sprinkles a little in Vegas, no place for the water to go.) He was barely comprehensible, but I was polite and kept on saying that it was better that he take his time and drive safely under such conditions.
It wasn't until after I shut the door that I realized the idiot was waiting for me to give him a tip.
Ha! A TIP for delivering lost luggage over two days late???
FAT CHANCE!!!!
"I've been offering a solution for a looooong time around here.
We need a level playing field that offers the economic incentive to attract our best and brightest to these vital sectors that are under attack."
I suspect you may have a good idea as what has gone wrong over a period of some twenty years or so. The issues are quite complicated. Solutions are not so easily arrived at.
I worked at Bell Labs between 1979 and 1994 (with stints in other arms of AT&T such as what used to be called AT&T Micro Electronics (old Western Electric division). I had for six years been involed in leading edge IC design so am quite aware as to how AT&T moved a lot of our work over seas. Such as IC packaging and testing, then later on setting up design groups in European and far east countries where we literally set up fully functional CAD design shops.
Just a dribble of info to make a point.
The point being. Where do we draw the line between a company being able to expand it's world wide market base?
In the Integrated Design houses (IBM, Intel, TI, whatever),
it often makes sense to move parts of their facilities over seas because the labor was cheap, the people often where willing to work hard, and smart once trained, leading often to a high quality line of products. Also these companies did not have to worry about strong labor unions trying to run things! Over seas installations had no labor unions.
So how do we reverse a trend in big business in general that have already set up shop in foreign lands? Often it would not be to their advantage to relocate divisions etc., back to the States. Because the tax break deals would not be sufficient to allow them to maintain the profit margin which originally forced them to relocate.
If you say sunk 5 billion US bucks in setting up a processing line and all that is associated with it, in Spain for instance. How much tax breaks would be required to have them want to move the plant back to the USA?
This problem has been festering for years, and will not get any better. Many of the very people (so called lib leaders) that have bashed our companies with taxes etc., forcing them to move, now are screaming ......OH my....all our companies are moving off shore. We cannot have this!
What bullshit! They are mostly responsible for this terrible breakdown to begin with. Lets remember who controled the congress for many years during the very years that had seen our rise to such a huge and profitable technical base. They did nothing to keep jobs here, and they obviously relished in the idea of far left unions interfeering with these companies. Now we all pay the price. I realize many reading this are aware of these problems and how they came about. But just offering some insite into the problem for those who just have not followed this problem over the years. Remember Timothy Worth the liberal senator from Colorado and lib Judge Green breaking up AT&T for instance? They worked with companies that wanted a piece of the pie, and broke up the company who was a national treasure, profit margins controlled, for keeping the cost of the world's best phone service available for all US citizens. In so doing they started the erosion of perhaps the worlds most elite R&D community in the world. And we not only lost in the long run pertaining to quality low cost phone services, but lost a huge based of "free public domain" high tech patents and designs in all types of electronics, physics (lasers anyone), integrated circuit design tools and design techniques.........on and on. So once this stuff stopped, we lost a national asset.
The whole system has gone to the dogs folks. I assure you tax breaks and export tarrifs on outgoing goods that are not made here will not fix the problem at this point in time. If anything, companies will continue to consolidate divisions, remove what they believe is overhead etc., and you know what that means.........un-employment. This is why we had finally lost more jobs in the past 10 years or so, then created. Started to really go downhill during Slick Willy's 8 years, due to the sins of the past twenty years or so.
So you stiffed the guy who took the trouble to make up for the airlines's mistake? Don't worry though; he'll probably spread it about that you're a lousy tipper and that there's no point in doing you a favor.
What are you talking about?
Yep. He gets paid by the airline, either directly or indirectly as a subcontracter.
Doesn't much matter to me which it is.
It's the airline's fault, THEY pay to correct it, not me.
"and export tarrifs on outgoing goods that are not made here
What are you talking about?"
I simply am stating that if a proposed solution to the problem is to place tarrifs on goods created by US companies at offshore facilities, when they come into the USA, that it would further reduce the company's ability to maintain a given profit margin. In other words, punish the companies that try to sell in US market goods produced over seas.
I threw it in as an example of what could easily be proposed. But that could further erode companies ability to compete.
Am I far off base? This question is not meant to be sarcastic. And I do realize it is not easy to provide complex answers within a simple reply.
Study math
What a mean-spirited viewpoint. Stiffing the working people is (errand boys, cabbies, waiters, waitresses) is something you seem to have in common with Hillary; it's just an ugly attitude toward workers.
"I've been offering a solution for a looooong time around here."
This is the best solution I've seen around here and it goes all the way back to the Founding Fathers and their ideas on how to maintain successful enterprises at home.
"What a mean-spirited viewpoint. Stiffing the working people is (errand boys, cabbies, waiters, waitresses) is something you seem to have in common with Hillary; it's just an ugly attitude toward workers."
I don't think he was stiffing anyone. The point of the article is that our R&D and high tech manufactoring based continues to erode and the far east, especially continues to grow. How long can our economy hold up if all we have are banks, Walmarts, fast food stores etc.? So much has gone never to return, or be rebuilt. This issue has been on the table for many years, many books written about the eminent danger. And remember this, do you want to buy a sophisticated weapon system from lets say china?
The problems are very complex, and there are no easy solutions.
Wish it was otherwise.
What a bleeding-heart, liberal comment.
Ooooops, that's what "compassionate conservatism" is all about, isn't it?
Undermining conservative principles with new-age, politically correct doublespeak?
If the company has offshore facilities, then it is no longer a "US Company".
It is a transnational company, playing the best interests of one nation off against the interests of others.
That's kind of what I was thinking when I read the following from you in post#13: "We need a level playing field..."
"If the company has offshore facilities, then it is no longer a "US Company".
It is a transnational company, playing the best interests of one nation off against the interests of others."
Understand your answer. But let us not forget many of these companies where forced into this position due to labor unions, little interest at State and Federal levels to keep them in this country. So as I have said, it really is a no win situation for all. And the solutions if any, are not going to be easy to re-establish corporate bases and manufactoring facilities in the USA. Companies are in existence to create a profit, and build personal wealth for those that own a piece of the companies. How does on entice a company to spend perhaps hundreds of billions of dollars to move all it's facilities back to the USA? What guarentees do they have that once relocated, they will not go down the tubes?
But thanks for your feedback.
Manufacturing
High Tech
???
You are not off base. Any government based solution will add a layer of expense and raise the cost of goods to the taxpayer. If the taxpayer wanted to resolve this without the government, they could simply bid up the price of US goods produced in the US. Like the bumper sticker says: "Hungry? Eat your foreign car" This solution is not feasible because everyone will not follow it.
The market based solution requires that the consumer purchase the best value for their buck, and companies to inovate and find ways to compete. If the doom and gloom scenario plays out, we all will have no jobs and will stop consuming things. This will lead companies to stop moving overseas because they can't recoup the cost of relocation. Then they will have to continue to hire workers here, or become foreign companies. I don't think it will happen, but who knows?
America has been in the business of business for a long time. I don't think they will forget what to do in a year or two.,
Tech is dead? Our division (mainframe storage management) of HAL is growing by leaps and bounds. Of course the management is trying to outsource most of our accounts once the American nerds get the bugs worked out. Can't have those highly educated, tech savvy foriegners being bothered by having to actually solve any problems, that's why they always keep an American tech on the accounts for "consulting" purposes.
In the post-WWII and Cold War era, the federal government actively encouraged offshore development, both as a means of facilitating postwar rebuilding AND to oppose the spread of global communism. Also during this period, the federal government created and imposed many new encumberences on domestic industries: health, safety and environmental standards among them.
The labor union boogeyman is just a political scapegoat.
Despite the end of the Cold War era, the transnational corporations have discovered that it is now profitible to manipulate government policy and undermine our national interests.
EX: Has been
SPURT: Drip under pressure
EXPERT: Has been drip under pressure
The word you're looking for is "pert", not "spurt".
If we annihilate the rest of the world we will be the only ones left to do the job. Willie, you are pathetic.
India has not created a damn thing, just stolen it from the US.
unfortunately, America with only 5% of the world's population (281 million out of over 6 billion) will not be able to employ the rest of the world. They are going to have to improve their own nations. And it won't happen overnight.
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