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LIVE THREAD: Post-Debate Cheney v. Edwards ^ | October 5, 2004

Posted on 10/05/2004 7:38:10 PM PDT by Howlin

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To: RightWingMama

Quote of the pundits for the evening -- Mort Kondracke -- "Edwards looked like a dog yapping at an adult." Truere words were never told...

41 posted on 10/05/2004 7:43:56 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers are Endangering Every Patient in America)
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To: Howlin

summed up: smarmy, slick, oily lawyerese versus a genuine leader.

42 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:01 PM PDT by lieutenant columbo
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To: Howlin

The fact that GWB picked Dick Cheney as VP with Wyoming s 3 electoral votes, Basing his choice on character and experiance rather that flashy smiles and hair SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION!

Awww geeez here is Mc awful! L0L

43 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:07 PM PDT by mylife (Opinions~$1.00 Todays Special: Halfbaked~50. cents)
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To: dormee

Anybody has the poll links?

44 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:14 PM PDT by RedRepublic
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To: Howlin
Pig eyed Breckboy got his ass handed to him on a silver plater courtesy of VP Cheney.

Just like Skerry he broke the rules of the debate. Typical Demonrat behavior, rules and laws are for everyone else not us.

45 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:16 PM PDT by Militiaman7 (Jesus is my personal Physician.)
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To: Howlin

"The first time I met the man was when he walked on the stage tonite"........Dick Cheney commenting on Edwards poor attendence record in the Senate

46 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:25 PM PDT by bert (Peace is only halftime !)
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To: jbarkley

Yea i was saying that Mathews quickly rebutted Reagan.

47 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:34 PM PDT by NYURepublican
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To: Howlin

Said it before and I will say it again...It was baby seal clubbing time!


48 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:35 PM PDT by Toonces T. Cat (The Token Republican in Deep South Texas...)
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To: tapatio

dang, Fox is sort of talking up Edwards.

49 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:39 PM PDT by cajungirl (Jammies Up!!)
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To: Howlin

Cheney mopped the floor with Edwards.

But the FR server sure needed a heavy-duty CPU cooler tonight!

50 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:42 PM PDT by PogySailor (Proud member of the RAM)
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To: section9


Cheney smashed silky pony in the first half and won a solid close one in the second half (domestic).

If you are up for it, I encourage you to see it.

Poor silky pony was off his rhythm all night.

Be well,


51 posted on 10/05/2004 7:44:42 PM PDT by Petronski (Watching Heinz and Kerry show affection is like watching two lobsters in a kung fu movie.)
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To: Howlin

Vice Presidential Debate Scorecard

Round No.
Camera Shot
To Cheney: bremer speech?Rumsfeld speech?

Thanks Case Western. It is important to look at all developments in Iraq in context of global war on terror. Go after terrorrists and satte sponsors.  And create democracies afterwards so thatthese states would not again become a state harbor.  Saddam had been a state sponsor, Abu Nidal/suicide bombers $, relationships with Al Qaeda --Tenet's testimony. The effort that we have mounted focused on possibility that this was the most likely nexus between terrorists and WMD. What we did in Iraq was exactly the right thing to do.  The world is far safer today.

Response: I am confident we will get the jon done


Tanks CWU. "You are still not being straight with the American people. You continue to tell the American people that things are going well in Iraq.  Talks aboiut rising losses in Iraq.  Our men and women have been heroic.  And it is not just me that see a mess in Iraq.  Cites McCain. Hagel and Lugar.  Whta Baul Bremer said yesterday was not enough troops. No plan.  No alliance. We need a fresh start.  We need to speed up everything.

Edwards: There is no connection between 9/11 and Saddam. new CIA report coming


Would you have left Saddam in power

Senator has his facts wrong. No connection between 9/11 and Saddam, but there is a connection between Saddam and terror. They have a very limited view on hwo to use American troops. Brings up global test. A track record that goes back to the 1970s.  1980s votes against military votes.  A little tought talk cannot obscure a record of 30 years. Wouldn't aggressively pursue the war on terror.


Key resonse, going after Kerry's record. Set up for Bush speech tomorrrow


He needed to be taken out in the right way, meaning that we would have been prepared, that we would have known there was no WMD. We went into Afghanistan. Right decision. We had Osma, and he got away.

Listen carefully to VBeep: There is no connection between Saddam and 9/11.


Osama --plan to capture him

We have never let up on OBL.  We have captured or killed thopusands of Al Qaeda. I'm confident that eventually we will get him.  The key to success is to keep it up. Edwards, six months ago, announced warlords were about totake over. Here we are 4 days away from a democratic election.  Good solid answer charting progress there. "Major, major progress.

"They got it wrong. When we had OBL cornered, they turned it over to warlords."  "These distoritions are contuing."

What John Kerry said about the global test is that we will kill terrorists, he will defend this country, he said no veto power. But the reality is "no veto" was said."

Edwards attacks progress in Afghnaistan. Bad move. Didn't answer global test directly. Didn't define it.


global test, Senator Edwards

Talks about Iraqi casualties.  Corrects him on cost. Jabs on not voting.  Allies forgiving $80 billion in Iraqi debt.  Nice show of facts.  You also ahve as ituation where you talk abvout credibility, but hard to convey credibility when you vote for war and then campaign against it.  You are not credible on Iraq because of the enormous incosnistencies...There is no indiciation whatsoever that John Kerry would be serious. Talking tough in a campaign cannot obscure a 30 year record/



Edwards doesn't answer. Just doesn't answer. Says we have to tell the truth. To Americans. To world.  A fillibuster.  Finishes with a "no control" promise



John Kerry dangerous

He doesn't have the qualifications to be C-in-C. I am not challenging Kerry's patriotism We have never done so. We question his judgment. His judgment is flawed. 1984 senate campaign conducted on weapon cut backs. Voted against Gulf War in 1991. The problem we have if you look at his recoird he doesn't ddisplay the qualities of someone who has conviction. Votes for war and against the $87. A response to Howard Dean. They in effect they would cast an anti-war vote. If they couldn't stand up to pressures Howard Dean presented , how can they stand up to al Qaeda.

Response: If we want to win the war on terror, it is pretty clear the choice is George Bush


A long record doesn't add up to judgment. John Kerry has voted for teh military appropriations etc..Wrong move here, to bring up Cheney's Pentagoin service...Doesn't answer on $87...


Edwards on talking points. OK, but not responsive.


What about the French and the Germans? They say they won't come.

Wow.  VP beats him around the ears.  "The troops wouldn't havewhat they have today if you had your way."  Talks about the coaltion.


Classic example: He won't count the contributions of our Iraqi allies.  For you to demean their sacrifice. It is indeed demeaning.  You cannot succeed in this effort if you will not recognize their contributions...

This is a kety exchange.  Cheney is ticked off. Shows well


Talking points ending in "Success breeds cooperation."  Mentions no body armor


Well spoken, but not responsive.

All style, lousy substance

  Good questions from start to here by Ifell. Well done. Both candidates look good.

I ask an awful lot of questions and CIA spokesman said they have not yet reached the bottom line on relationship between Saddam and Zarqawi.  Talks about Zarqawi.  "He set up shop in Baghdad..ricin shop..know he's still in Baghdad today..he beheads hostages.  He's a terrorist. He was in Baghdad before the war, and after the war, andwe have to deal with him by taking him out and that's what we will do.


Talking points:  "Inconsistent with what we see on television." Mentions beheadings. Bombings. With JFK as president, we are committed to all of the reforms of 9/11 Commission.

Eloquent but repititious.

Sanctions on Iran

Cheney explains previous stance on unilateral sanctions and the changing circumstances. Good answer, but tough quuestion.  Edwards has an opening here. Too many acroynms. Too complex. Addresses North Korea as well. Good move. Five days after we captured SAaddam, Qaddafi surrendered his nuclear materials.  Great close to a weak start. Shut down Khan network


Cheney whiffs on the response.  But Ifill should have followed with another question as this was a personal attack


VP talsk about Zarqawi being associated with Al Qaeda.


How many countries are we going to invade?


Will Cheney go for it?

Mentions Haliburton again.



Go Dick.  Turns his 90 seconds into attack on Edwards "Senator Gone" First time I ever met you is when you walked on the stage tonight. Ouch.


Saddam connection to suicide bombers. Srong answer, especially after pushing Edwards around.


Trial lawyer emoting.  Does this work?  I don't think so, but maybe viewers like that.


That was a distortion of my record.  I am surprised to hear him talk about records. House vote against Head Start? Meals on Wheels oh no! 


Census bureau as the biggest poor city

We need to address fundamental questions. We need to get people jobs.  To do that we have to make America the best place in America to do business. Litigation cost.  Adequate medical care.


Zeroes in oneduction.  First class public schools. President's first leg priority was "no Child"  Ted Kennedy on board.

Too much on education without enough passion.


Response: Defends tax cuts No Child Medicare reform. Dems promised prescription drug benefits.  President got it done.  Dropped 5 million from rolls. He tells a good story using old data. We have added 1.7 million jobs to the economy


In the time that they have been in office 1.6 million private sector jobs have been lost. 1 out of 2 children are now living in poverty in Cleveland.  4,000,000 more Americans have fallen into poverty. First presidency in 70 years not to have created jobs.  We have to do better. They are for outsourcing jobs.


Strong attack on BushCheney.


Edwards says "millions" have lost jobs. Mess in Iraq. I don't thinkt he country can take four more years of this..



  You two are pretty well off? Bad editorial comment of no relevance to helping Cleveland
Tax hikes limited, how can you cut deficit in half?

The Kerry record on taxes is one basically of voting for tax increases 98 times.  Fundamental philosophical difference.  KerryEdwards approach is to raise taxes.  Fundamental difference of opinion.  Top bracket is small business bracket.  900,000 small business will be hit by their proposal because 7 out of 10 jobs come from these folks. WEe don't want to tax them  Quotes Edwards from primary. Tax cuts will be permanent.


Great answer A

Starts out by not answering. Here's what we will do: Roll back tax cuts for people who make over $200,000 a year.  Give additional tax cuts to middle class.


Opening for the Veep?

We need to get rid of bureaucratic spending in Washington. Supervisory level emploees? Heh.  Loopholes. Not an answer

gay marriage/ with follow up

ok answer, but what else couldbe expected, as th epResident and VP disagree? This question should come to the president. Missed opportunity to slam judicial activism strongly



Follow up: 

Thansk senator for words about family


Media will focus on this exchange because of the VP's discomfort.  The focus will help Bush-Cheney, though media won't get that right away. The protection of marriage amendment is popular beyond 70% whenever it gets a vote. Kerry Edwards sees no problem. Voters do.

Partnership benefits. No constitutional amendment. Marriage for man and woman. 


Treacly answer.

We believe marriage is between a man and a woman. 

Edwards going on to long. Should have left it alone, but makes it clear that Kerry Edwards oppose constitutional amendment

We shouldn't be talking about this


John Edwards part of trial lawyer problem

I am not familiar with his cases.  My concern is what has happened to our medical care system.  Tells story about New Mexico and OB/GYN docs.  Another increase in malpractice rates.  One doctor indicated that her rates are so high that she won't take high risk patients.  Devastating impact in a lot of communities.  mentions Wyoming. We think it can be fixed and needs to be fixed. Need to cap non-economic advantages and limit awards of trial attorneys. Great detailed answer.  Senator Kerry has voted ten times against reform.



Haymaker to Edwards' chin on the $600,000 of dodged medicare taxes on trial award

I am rpoud of the work I did againstr big HMOs, insurance companies.  John Kerry and I have a plan. Detai;s a blah blah blah pie in the sky plan. 








Edwards has no response.  Looked a little stung, and falls back on Haliburton

AIDS among African American women, not abroad

Solid response. Recounts spending initiative, and authentic acknowledgement that he didn't know about Gwen's assertion



Same answer as Cheney



  Very odd question in that it tried to take Africa/Asia off the table
What qualifies Edwards to be a heartbeat away

(not a good smirk)I think the important thing in picking a VP differs in what different president's need. I was to be a member of the team and that's what I have done. From the perspective of the nation our relationship has worked, and it has done so because I don't have any further political ambitions. My agenda is his agenda. (Touche.)  It is a very significant responsibility --a moment's notice. Most important consideration


I clearly believe that George W Bush would be a nbetter C-in-C. He's done it for four yeasr.  He understands GWOT. reaches from US to Jakarta. President has the special qualities you need.  Not convinced that Kerry does.


American people want to know that you are telling the truth.Mentions world travel.  Talking points. I don't claim to have the long political resume of the VP but we have plans


The most important thing I have learned is about John Kerry  troops in battle, prosecutor, 100,000 new cops...does this work with people? I don't think so.


Differences between you and Edwards

More similarities in our story.  I have heard Senator's Edward's and we have the same thing/  My grandfather didn't go to college.  Ticket as an electrician in an union.  been hospitalized without insurance.

But with respect to our careers, I made a choice for publci service.

I am absolutely convinced that the threat we face now, a terrorist in a city with a nuke, is very real.  I feel very strongly that the significane of 9/11 cannot be underestimated.  Force us to think in new ways.  Some peopel say we should wait to get attacked to use force.

Very strong advocate of going after the terrorist.


We were attacked, but we were not attacked by Saddam. We need to be offensive.  Once again lead strong coalitions where they are.

John Kerry made clear that we will do that and we will do it aggressively BUT there are things that need to be done...

OK but weak.  Missed chance to tell personal story?


Flip flopping

Cheney responds:


I can think of a  lot of words to describe Senator Kerry's response on Iraq and consistent isn't one of them.

Bingo. Lays it out.  Home run.  Edwards threw it high and over the plate.

First of all, John Kerry has been completely consistent about Iraq --ERROR!  NOT BELIEVABLE--  brings up Bremer again (Nice work Paul, though I doubt this really connects with average Americans.


Accuses Bush/Cheney of flip flops on 9/11 Commission, Homeland Security

Big opportunity for Cheney...

Bad mistake here.  Money clip for tomorrow on the radio show.

Deeply divided electorate?

We would have liked to reach across the aisle, as the president did in Texas.  Lots f support for the Ptriot Act, No Child.  Continue to try and work it. I remember from my earlier service whenthings were much different. We used to be able to do more, and I am nit sutre why.  The change in majority/minority status has been hard for both sides to adjust to.  Important for us to try.  Need support from the other side of the aisle. mentioned Zell Miller, so there are some Dems, and hopefully in second term we will see improvem,ent


B  Didn't mention Dacshle obstructionism

Response:  Good little laugh. Mentions Medicre reform bill.  Good close.

Edwarsd says "we can do better than that."  Goes to health care.  Not respoinsive.


Edwards has looked good throughout, very collected, but non responsive often.  Shoudl have stayed on the Bush/Chenet toughness...blew a chance but still looke dgood.



"They had a choice. Canada drugs?  Weird way to end. In a wartime election, what's he thinking?

Closing statements

Thanks.  Privilehe to serve. Cut taxes.  Added 1.7 million jobs. Won';t be happy until all who want to work can have a job. Access to medical care, schools, preserve social securityu.  Worked for four presidents, saw two up close.  Saw 9/11. Midst of a conflict unlike we have never known. That threat is placing a special responsibility on all of you. The only viable option for winning is the one the president has chosen. Proud that we stand up democraticially elected governemts in both places.  This is the task of our generation.  Overall outcome depends on the president and he is up to it.

Very strong close. A

Thanks. here comes the "young and growing upstory."  Glow of the television.  Learning math on television to get a better job in the mill.  I was hopeful. I could get a college education. "Here's the truth>'  Light is flickering.  VP and President don't see it, butyou do.

Empty chair for loved one serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.  So those chairs will be filed again?  Cut and run.

hrumian close: The power to fight for you.


52 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:05 PM PDT by RonDog
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To: Howlin

OMG are you watching THE PUNK on C-span2?

53 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:07 PM PDT by OXENinFLA (So sKerry pulled a pen from his jacket, he still broke rules he agreed to..)
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To: Howlin

I can't believe FNC. They are sucking in their post-debate analysis

54 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:11 PM PDT by MichelleWSC
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To: Howlin

Best line of the night was Cheney saying that though he is president of the Senate, he never met Edwards until he walked out on the stage.

THAT left a mark.

55 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:19 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (The police never think it's as funny as you do.)
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To: cajungirl

That "dude" was Mort Kondrake.

56 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:25 PM PDT by justshe (Become a monthly donor.....eliminate Freepathons!)
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To: Howlin

WOOO HOOOO.....Cheney WON!!!!

57 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:27 PM PDT by Arpege92 (We're here! We're Conservative! And we're in your face! - theDentist)
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To: marineguy

Seems like the breck girl was using the same tired old lines that kerry was using,

Situation on the ground, haliburton, we will fight the terrorists' and track them down,

Cheney won hands down, watch for an agressive GW on the second go round

58 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:30 PM PDT by Robert Warren Linville (So proud of Free Republic that I use my real name)
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To: cajungirl

Mort.. sheesh

59 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:35 PM PDT by DaveMSmith (One Day at A Time || Blue Angel in PJs)
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To: Howlin

FNC - Cheney didn't win debate, only first half. Was boring and audience switched over to the ballgame?

What debate was FNC watching? I had a rip roaring time. The ball game was won by Cheney hitting a home run. Out of the ball park and smashed into the Kerry family SUV.

60 posted on 10/05/2004 7:45:36 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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