Posted on 09/20/2004 9:54:32 AM PDT by Area Freeper
This guy needs a garden hose enema.
Here's not Jewish but here's your sign:
I agree. The Crusades while bloody were justified. Not every action, but the war itself.
When have the Muslims ever apologized for starting the whole thing? Even today, they call for more war.
The Fourth Crusade was hijacked by the Venetians for their own purposes and is a story unto itself. The Knights that went on it never intended to attack other Christians. They had no choice but do the Venetian bidding under the particular circumstances that prevailed. You are correct about that particular Crusade, which was a travesty, and fully merited a papal apology. However, the Byzantines had rightful ownership to the Holy Lands, regardless of who first took them away, a right that everyone (except the occupiers) freely acknowledged, and the other Crusades were completely honorable.
Not at all.
Its said with the same passion as a Templar Crusader thrusting his sword down the throat of one of those Turkish Seljuks who invaded the Holy Land, making life miserable for Christians there.
Manikert 1071
Godfrey of Boulounge captures Jerusalem, freeing it from the pollution of Seljuk hands - 1099.
The Arabs had captured the Holy Lands earlier on as you assert, making life miserable for non-Muslims, but not quite as miserable as it became after the brutal Seljuk invasions, whose mistreatment of Christians and desecration of Christian holy sites initially generated the Crusades.
The Crusaders retained control of the lands they were supposed to turn over to the Byzantines, it is true, but both Byzantines and Crusaders, while Christians, came from entirely different cultures and unfortunately there was a great deal of mistrust and double-dealing on BOTH sides.
They should have pooled their resources and concentrated on crushing their real enemy - Islam. We would be better off today.
The Fourth Crusade's diversion from an attack on Islam to an assault on Constantinople was unforgivable. The reason it occurred was due to the machinations of one of the maritime Italian States, I forget which, which wanted to take over trade in the Eastern Mediterranean and on whom the Crusaders relied for transport overseas.
What was even more regrettable, was the very poor response - slim to none - from western Christiandom when the Turks closed in around Constantinople in the 1400's.
Yes, indeed. Perhaps he should move to either Israel or an atheist country such as Cuba.
I daresay he considers the Crusaders, defenders of Christendom, the bad guys.
He needs a good ole country ass whuppin'!
Send Silverman to Saudi A/Afgh/Pakistan/Irq and let him know WHY the Crusades happened in the first place (oh and in those places send him out to the places where American troops aren't there to save him
And we're making the same mistakes today by ostracising Russia. ORthodox/Catholic/Protestant/Oriental -- all the churchs must put a united front against the common enemy. Sure, we have differences, but squabbling amongst ourselves makes us a house divided, and we all know what that leads to. I don't want to go over the mistakes of the past, to apologize, I just want to use them to NOT make the same mistakes again
I'm going to start a private school and name the team The Crusaders...I just decided.
I agree.
I'm not supportive of Ostracizing Russia. I support Putin and his administration completely in ANY efforts they undertake to crush terorism there, including wiping out the Chechyans en masse. Or maybe they should put them all on airplanes and air drop them into Saudi Arabia where the problem started.
I uderstnad Putin wanting to control who gets elected in the Caucasus region - its a hot spot and he doesn't need troub;e-makers there. I don't think extending that to all of Russia is a wise idea, but he may have good solid reasons for doing so.
Putin may be ex-KGB, but I think he's a good Christian.
I think we can and should work with the Russians. They are not morally corrupt like the French.
Sorry, the Crusaders were no heroes in my book. They were responsible for wreaking havoc and slaughtering thousands of Jews in France and Germany. Until today the Jewish book of Kinot, recited on Tisha B'av (Jewish day of mourning) contains hymns commemorating the devastation and barbarism committed against the Jewish people by the Crusades. I think christians need to acknowledge the demons in their past rather than making the crusaders into heroes.
(Following is a quote from Aish.com Jewish history website)
INFIDEL CLEANSING
Pope Urban II mounted the first campaign, in part in response to a plea for help from Christians in Constantinople who were besieged by the Muslims. Its aim was to beat back the "infidels" (as Christians called their fellow monotheists) and to recapture the Holy Land.
To sweeten the pie, the Pope promised those that signed up that there would be plenty of booty, not to mention the spiritual benefit of having all your sins forgiven by God.
The Pope received an enthusiastic response. An armed force of 15,000 -- including 5,000 knights and the rest infantry -- set off wearing a large red cross on their outer garments (hence their name Crusaders from the Latin word meaning "cross," though they called themselves "pilgrims").
A peasant force also joined in. As these peasants started marching through Europe (in advance of the knights), they needed to eat, and eat they did by pillaging the countryside. As they were marching along they got the idea that they might as well get rid of the infidels in their midst -- namely the Jews.
Here is one eyewitness account of an attack on the Jewry of Mainz in May of 1096. This comes from The First Crusade by August Krey, and it is a letter written by a Jew who survived:
"The Jews of the city, knowing of the slaughter of their brethren fled in hope of safety to the Bishop of Ruthard. They put an infinite treasure in his guard and trust having much faith in his protection. He placed the Jews in a very spacious hall in his own house that they might remain safe and sound in a very secure and strong place.
"But ... the band held council, and after sunrise attacked the Jews in the hall with arrows and lances, breaking down the bolts in the doors. They killed the Jews, about 700 in number who in vain resisted the force of an attack of so many thousands. They killed the women also and with their sword pierced tender children whatever age and sex..."
This is how about 30%-50% of the Jewish community of Europe met its end. Some 10,000 Jews of an estimated population of about 20,000-30,000 were slaughtered by Crusaders mobs.
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