Posted on 09/06/2004 1:04:58 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember
I think I can agree with that, but you've failed to address Bush's miscalculation on Chechnya. Was he right to threaten economic sanctions against Russia if they didn't stop fighting in Chechnya? Was the State Dept right for meeting with Chechen opposition party members? Your answer please.
But...but...I read in my leftie lib local paper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, today that the Russian leaders were backtracking in their claim that foreign terrorists were involved, that there was no proof. And the Russians were focusing on an independent internal investigation to determine why the government handled the crisis so badly. And the bomb explosion was a mistake, the separatists didn't mean to do it....
That fact is creeping into reporting and commentary, day by day.
I noted Guiliani dated the beginning of terrorism to 1972 Munich Olympics, which is useful to put a long timeline on this awful historic situation.
Muslim terrorism in Philippines, Maylasia, Indonesia, India, Russia, Sudan etc. has NO CONNECTION with Israel.
It is islamic expansionism--political, by the sword. Needs stopping, which can ONLY be done by the sword.
No UN negotiated "political" settlements.
Links please because I don't remember the threat of economic sanctions specifically. I do remember that Bush wants Putin to work on human rights in Chechyna -- but I doubt that Bush extends the same rights to terrorists in Chechyna. Big difference in my book.
If you are trying to link human rights to rights for terrorists, no need for this conversation to go further.
Working to promote democracy
JIM LEHRER: On Chechnya and Russia, the U.S. and the rest of the western world has been raising Cain with Russia from the beginning, saying 'You are killing innocent civilians.' The Russians have said essentially 'We're fighting terrorism, and, by the way, mind your own business.' What else -- what else, if anything, could be done by the United States?
GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, we could cut off IMF (International Monetary Fund) aid and export/import loans to Russia until they heard the message loud and clear, and we should do that. It's going to be a very interesting issue to see how Russia merges, Jim. This guy, Putin, who is now the temporary president, has come to power as a result of Chechnya. He kind of rode the great wave of popularity as the Russian military looked like they were gaining strength in kind of handling the Chechnya situation in a way that's not acceptable to peaceful nations.
Date?
This appears to be pre 9/11.
BTTT
Yeah it was pre-911, but the point remains Bush and some of his cabinet members (Condy Rice) took office condemning Russian action in Chechnya. It had the early appearance of Clinton-Milosevic, and it took a 911 for the people of the United States to fully understand Islamist fundamentalism. Russia knew all about it when Bush made these statements. Now he knows.
Okay, I'm going to agree that you have some good points. I actually did not know about the sanctions comment by Bush so appreciate being told about it.
I do think Bush has a pre 9/11 thought process and a post 9/11 thought process so I doubt he'd probably make the same type of comment today. But that's only my opinion.
I also think the Russians might have a new thought process themselves after this school massacre. I don't think they will have the same feelings towards Islamist fundamentalism themselves now.
My guess is that Condi Rice gave Bush this advice because it didn't sound like the Bush I know. Sorry, but I'm not a Condi fan.
One thing (among many) that is different in Russia (you may already know this) is the vast ethnic diversity when compared with the U.S. If you visit middle or northern Russia, the population is as anglo as Iceland. But if you travel to the Caucusus regions, Russia begins to blend ethnically into a darker, more Arabic/Armenian portrait. The Republics of Georgia, Kazahkstan, Uzebekistan, Azerbijan and add Chechnya have a populace that "looks" Croatian/Serbian/Armenian(gypsy) and even Arabic. This region is where caucasian anglos (pardon my language) methodically blend into the Arab peoples of the world. The peoples you saw in Beslan resemble this blend to darker features and skin.
Though I'm not an anthropologist, I play one on TV. My point is that Islam itself, and Turkish-Tatar influences in southern Russia are more deeply woven into Russian society than you might think, thus their peoples might be more sluggish to see them as the enemy unlike the U.S.
sorry i typed this quickly. don't point out my flaws. there are many in there. you get the main picture hopefully.
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