No End to War-The Frum-Perle prescription would ensnare America in endless conflict

American Conservative ^ | March 1, 2004 | Patrick J. Buchanan

[NutCrackerBoy]

I asked the mods to change it to the date the piece was actually published.

[Ranger]

I'm not too keen on the Zionist conspiracy stuff your accusing me of because I disagree with you. Hadn't counted heads at the cabinet level either like you have. It never occurred to me. Nor do I particularly care for Buchanan's brownshirt politics.

I do care about crappy analysis that sends this country to fight wars on false premises from analysts stirring up hysteria and fear. To follow their logic we will be at war with out end. Their book and analysis deserves to be trashed.

Unfortunately, it became policy and we went to war in Iraq. Furthermore, evidence that there were leaks to foreign powers if not a mole in the intel loop in their offices and within the decision cycle in the Pentagon with these same folks doesn't help things either.

[SJackson]

Well, if you disagree with the war you should focus your disagreement on the policy makers at the top, not ... unelected wonks and wierdos [who we let] take control?. There's an election coming up, and if you watch the convention this week I think you'll see GWB happy to take responsibility for his policies. You can vote for him, you can vote for Kerry, I suspect with GWB you'll largely get what you vote for. Pat, of course, will be busy hunting Zionists.

[SJackson]

March 1, 2004, that's not right? Are you sure you're not looking at the 8/30/04 date of posting?

[chukcha]

Pat writes well, but he makes wrong conclusions.

He is right about "democracy" baloney. Iran, give or take, is a democracy. Yet, it is very ant-American. Currently, any Muslim democracy will be hostile to the U.S.

Strong Israel - whether a democracy or a monarchy - is in this country's strategic interest. Here is why.

To some extend, the current events repeated what happened in the forties.
In the 90's this country was playing an "honest broker" game in the Middle East, while being attacked continuously in many areas. 9/11 was a declaration of war and nothing less. Bush understood this very well - there is less push on Israel, and no talks with Arabs.

It is time to abandon old alliances. Forget about Old Europe. The formula - enemy of my enemy is my friend - still works.

Which countries are actively fighting Muslim expansion? USA, Russia, and Israel. I agree with Pat - countries shouyld make alliances based on current interests. Russia and Israel should be our closest friends now.

[mrustow]

An End to Evil is a brief in defense of neoconservatives against their impending indictment on charges they lied us into a war that may prove our greatest disaster since Vietnam. And the charge of deliberate deceit is not without merit.

Is this a game of chicken, with Buchanan seeking to provoke someone into a libel suit? Oh, I get it. He doesn't name any specific neocon, hence, if someone does sue him, he can just say, "I wasn't naming you -- but do you feel guilty?"

[boris]

As I keep pointing out, we are at the culmination of a centuries-old war between Western Civilization and barbarism. If "endless conflict" is Pat's term, it's as good as any.

As for facing a "holocaust" we are seeing the Islamists claiming a "right" to kill 4 million American men, women, and children--that qualifies in my book as a holocaust.

--Boris

[CWOJackson]

Ah, appeasement pat...kind of like a bitter energizer bunny with a STD.

[oceanview]

Pat was on OReilly tonight. Making no sense, he said Iran should be allowed to get nukes. Why would they give them to terrorists he says? If they did, and we found out, we would nuke them. Of course, he never told us how exactly we would find out they passed a nuke to AQ - and didn't mention which US city he was prepared to lose to test his theory.

[mrustow]

Why do you think they're in control? Are fold like George Bush, Richard Cheney, Condi Rice, Don Rumsfeld just a bunch of dumbass Christian's under the control of the eternal Jews?

Note that none of the above are ever cited as neocons by Pat & Co., the same people who deny that "neocon" is a euphemism for "Jew."

[SJackson]

Note that none of the above are ever cited as neocons by Pat & Co., the same people who deny that "neocon" is a euphemism for "Jew."

He mentioned them, kind of, they're the dupes. I can't believe any of Pat's supporters actually support GWB. If you buy into the conspiracy theory, GWB should be impeached.

With Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush marching to their war drums, one of them bellowed, “We are all neoconservatives now!” But it is always unwise of courtiers to boast of their influence with the prince. And now the neocons have outed themselves. We all know who they are. We all have the coordinates. We all have them bracketed.

Coordinates, bracketed, I'm sure Pat's speaking from his artillery experience.

[SJackson]

Why would they give them to terrorists he says? If they did, and we found out, we would nuke them.

Read the article. What are they going to do, kill 10,000, 20,000. Big deal, Germany and Japan lost that every week. We can take the hit.

[oceanview]

we can take the hit you say? would you be willing to say that if it went off near your house?

[oceanview]

after 9-11, the entire power structure of the middle east must be tipped. iraq was the weakest leg of the stool in place after the action in Afghanistan - it was the next logical place to go.

[SJackson]

we can take the hit you say? would you be willing to say that if it went off near your house?

I didn't say that, Pat did, below. I think he's nuts, GWBs policy of preemption will save American lives. Pat's we can come back in a decade like the Germans and Japanese, laughable.

In the worst of terror attacks, we lost 3,000 people. Horrific. But at Antietam Creek, we lost 7,000 in a day’s battle in a nation that was one-ninth as populous. Three thousand men and boys perished every week for 200 weeks of that Civil War. We Americans did not curl up and die. We did not come all this way because we are made of sugar candy. Germany and Japan suffered 3,000 dead every day in the last two years of World War II, with every city flattened and two blackened by atom bombs. Both came back in a decade. Is al-Qaeda capable of this sort of devastation when they are recruiting such scrub stock as Jose Padilla and the shoe bomber?

[oceanview]

oh. sorry.

[Ranger]

The next logical place to go was and still is after OBL et al.

[okie01]

You struck a chord. The Indian Wars were my parallel to the War on Terrorism, going back to October, '01.

When two cultures are incompatible with one another and they are in conflict, then "right" and "wrong" are essentially irrelevant. Only "winning" and "losing" matter.

[montag813]

To save you from having to read this overlong "review", I will sum it up in one equation:
"Evil NeoCons = THE JOOOOOOOOOOS!!!"

[oceanview]

that requires an invasion of Pakistan - the Paks have nukes, Musharaff is weak, it could spark a takeover of the country, a war with India, the nukes falling into the wrong hands, etc, etc.

Given the level of Pakistani cooperation so far, I can't see how any of these possible outcomes could be an improvement over what we have now. Sure, we might have gotten OBL, but what would we have been left with in the aftermath in Pakistan? Whatever problems we have in post-Saddam Iraq, Pakistan could have been far worse had we gone in there. And Saddam would still be in iraq.