Posted on 08/22/2004 11:52:19 AM PDT by meatloaf
Can anyone prove or refute this?
"Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.
The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.
In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North. [¶] That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."
"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity. [¶] "The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.
"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said."
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What you posted is true. North Vietnamese Army Gen. Giap said exactly that.
I believe it IS true, and Oliver North was one of the first people I had heard, to bring this out, and if you Google it you probably can find some verification of it!
Bump!
I don't believe that Giap mentioned Kerry or his group by name, but it is correct that Giap said something like "those groups," referring to those who made up the Vietnam protest movement.
I've been doing that unsucessfully. We need to look for a copy of the book or have someone contact North for documentation. There is a couple of so-called reviews on the internet that come up refuting the statement.
If true, Kerry will be crucified.
BUMP FOR THE SUPPORT OF SWIFT VETS HERE... http://www.swiftvets.com/
Have you found that in print? We need an irrefutable source.
Ping this to 68-69 TonkinGulfYachtClub for the lowdown.
Gen. Giap has credited anti-war protestors in the US with encouraging the NVN to continue fighting. I believe that he has mentioned the activities of VVAW and Hanoi Jane with giving them renewed energy to prosecute the war when they were on the verge of capitulating.
In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.
Wow, that's a damning statement. I'd like to read the actual quote to make sure it is what it is. If it is, it could definitely hurt Kerry.
My guess, though, is that Giap wrote something like "we couldn't have won without the American anti-war movement", referring to the movement generally. It's probably North who connected the dots between the particular case of Kerry's organization and Giap's more general statement.
But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
It would be interesting to know if Kerry's group, VietNam Vets. Against the War, was funded by the Soviets. We now know from Kremlin documents released after the fall of the USSR that the American Communist and Socialist Parties were so financed. Does anyone have any idea who some of the hot-dog American Sovietsky researchers are, who could dig these data out in the next few weeks?
Certainly, if it were documented that Kerry or his group received funding from the Soviets, the case that Kerry is a Big T Traitor--much less a Manchurian Candidate!--would be air-tight.
Gen. Giap Thanks Kerry & Co. for Anti-war Protests
Celebrating the 29th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, the North Vietnamese general who led his forces to victory said Friday he was grateful to leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, one of whom was presidential candidate John Kerry.
"I would like to thank them," said Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, now 93, without mentioning Kerry by name. "Any forces that wish to impose their will on other nations will surely fail," he added.
Friday, April 16, 2004
It's very important to check sources
NewsMax.com ran a story on Feb. 10 titled, "Gen. Giap: Kerry's group helped Hanoi defeat U.S."
The story claimed, "In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. — according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North."
North's claim has been repeated as gospel in numerous articles, blogs, commentaries and pseudo-news reports, despite the fact the Giap memoir is bogus. According to WashingtonDispatch.com columnist Greg Lewis, who researched the alleged quotation, "No such volume exists."
Lewis wrote, "A few weeks ago in a column about Kerry, I referred to what has turned out to be an `urban legend.' Specifically, based on a `news' item that appeared on
NewsMax.com, I repeated a reference to a volume of memoirs supposedly published by North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap in 1985 as the source of an assertion by Colonel Oliver North. After a reader requested a reference to Giap's 1985 `Memoirs,' I did research that convinced me no such volume exists. For that matter, I haven't been able to verify through Fox News that Colonel North actually made the comments he is said to have made and which I repeated."
In the past, Gen. Giap is alleged to have made similar statements about Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite, though there is no verifiable evidence that he ever did. Revisionist historians take note. Check your sources, no matter how much you want to believe the lie.
Walter F. Wouk, Cobleskill
Wouk is director of The Thomas Paine Project, which opposes many laws the project feels infringe on the Bill of Rights. He is also a member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
You wanted to see it in print? check out the Reuters Article from April, 2004.
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=4905841
I think the sKerry did help the North Vietnamese. However, I have always disagreed with the assertion that the United States "lost" the Vietnam War, we lost just under 60,000 men, the North Vietnamese lost a couple million. The leftist continue to say we lost the war, but are unable to cite a single battle we were defeated in. The Tet Offensive was a huge victory for America, but the leftist media simply lied about it on the evening news. The war ended because it was unpopular and the 'Rats refused to provide funding. Had the war lasted another two years, the Viet Cong would have been out of men to fight.
This is from the link below:
Regarding the substance--and source--of Kerry's claims, Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to defect from the Soviet bloc, says:
''KGB priority number one at that time was to damage American power, judgment, and credibility. ... As a spy chief and a general in the former Soviet satellite of Romania, I produced the very same vitriol Kerry repeated to the U.S. Congress almost word for word and planted it in leftist movements. KGB chairman Yuri Andropov managed our anti-Vietnam War operation. He often bragged about having damaged the U.S. foreign-policy consensus, poisoned domestic debate in the U.S., and built a credibility gap between America and European public opinion through our disinformation operations. Vietnam was, he once told me, 'our most significant success.' ''
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=8129
I'm familiar with that thread. The point is none of Giap's interviews have been found nor has anyone looked at the number of books attributed to him on www.bookfinder.com.
We backed away from the issue. That's why I think we need to look for prime sources that may indicate the North Vietnamese were ready to cease hostilities until the protestors restored their morale.
It was the Communist's ONLY victory since the Berlin Wall.
What do you think memoirs are? Giap wrote them!
I went to http://68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub.org and there is not such website.
I went to http://TonkinGulfYachtClub.org and there is only a commercial referal with links:
What's any of that got to do with FReeper 68-69 TonkinGulfYachtClub? It's a scren name, nobody said it was a website.
In that context I agree, the Vietnam war was a "loss" for the United States.
Here is another link to kerry's and his commie beliefs.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp
We still need something that references Giap saying the North Vietnamese were ready to cease hostilities. I think we need to hit the books and forget about Google. If we can locate the memoir and scan and post the page with Giap's statement, Kerry's problems will escalate by orders of magnitude.
Leading Vietnam Vet Praises Kerry!!!!
Well Gaip is a Vietnam Vet isn't he?
I'll have to wait awhile before I can actually sit down and follow the yellow brick road to see what kind of info pops up, but if anyone has time, more power!!!! ;^)
.
JOHN KERRY = Enemy of Vietnam Vets
http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1320
Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer Veteran-Battle of IA DRANG fought against NVA Communist General GIAP in November 1965
(Photos Then)
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set2.htm
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set3.htm
(Photos Now)
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm
.
That's not a primary source. We need the actual memoir.
Maybe Karl Rove was behind this, bribing Giap to lie
about it to his own memoirs, so that when Kerry ran
for Prez in 2004 it could be used against him.
Or did Halliburton do it using a time machine?
The mother ship called. They want their transmitter back!
"It WAS NOT a military loss - since the military was pulled out when we were winning.
But it was a political loss for the country: Washington politicains (BECAUSE of Kerry's lies, plus tens of thousands of other Communist/socialist lies and protests! - decided unilaterally to pull us out due to media pressure."
Congress voted get out, and if I recall, Ford was mad about the decision.
The VVAW web site says it ain't true. Amazon has the book, used, and available in 1-2days. One of the reviews says that its in the book. Another review says it isnt in the book.
Wading through a day or two of Giaps political crap isnt worth it to me.
It sounds like an urban myth. I suggest doing some google research until you find the quote--and not just a repeat of the "urban legend."
I agree with you. I resent the notion we lost the war. I still wait for some liberal to explain to me what battle lost the war for us.
As to the article posted. Not only is in General Giap's memoirs, I saw an interview with him on I think it was the history channel back in the mid 80's.
Want to raise you blood pressure:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/157488056X/102-0621220-6944106?v=glance
http://www.petermacs-books.com/giap.html
You rang! LOL
IMHO....EVERYTHING that KERRY did post service (AIDED AND ABETTED THE ENEMY) and his last 19 years in the Senate PROVE he is anti-military and a pacifist at best and a coward at worse. Anyone who would VOTE for a WAR then within a few months VOTE AGAINST FEEDING AND ARMING AND EQUIPING THOSE troops fighting that war is a traitor!! I don't give a rat's ass what the riders on the bill were!
Not in the sense that it's customarily used in the U.S. but he is a Vietnamese vet. :=)
That's an interesting site.
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