Posted on 06/22/2004 8:48:59 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
The US Army issued a contract to build a new heavy machine-gun, the M307. It can fire 25mm "smart shells" or, with a barrel change, the older .50 caliver (12.7mm) bullets. Earlier, it planned to build a new .50 caliber machine-gun, the M312.
Now it’s official, the U.S. Army is building a replacement for the 1920s era M-2 .50 caliber (12.7mm) heavy machine-gun. The new weapon, the M-307, has been designed so it can fire either the computer controlled 25mm "smart shell" or (by changing the barrel and receiver), .50 caliber ammo. The troops will begin receiving the new weapon in three or four years.
The M-2, nicknamed "Ma Deuce" by the troops, has been around so long because it was very good at what it did. Accurate, reliable, rugged and easy to use, many of the M-2s currently in use are decades old. The army doesn’t want to build new ones, and wasn’t sure it could do without the venerable, and very useful, Ma Deuce. So instead of going ahead with the plan to build a new .50 caliber machine-gun (the XM312), the manufacturer of the XM307 (General Dynamics) was given the go ahead on manufacturing their weapon with the stipulation that it be convertible to a plain old, non-computer, .50 caliber weapon by quickly swapping out a few parts. The XM312 was only eight pounds lighter than the 50 pound XM307, as the electronic component of the XM307 is not all that heavy, just expensive and always in need of fresh batteries. Maybe they’ll get in the habit of slipping a fresh battery into each box of 25mm ammo.
Aside from the .50 caliber ammo being 20 times cheaper than the high tech 25mm stuff, if there are teething problems with the computer controlled weapon, the troops will still have a spiffy new version of the old M-2. An XM307 with a .50 caliber barrel is still 14 pounds lighter than an M-2 and can use some aspects of the fire control electronics (like the range finder).
The 25mm XM307 was developed from the 1990s project to produce a 20mm computer controlled shell for an infantry weapon, as well as a heavier crew served weapon (the XM307). The 20mm shell proved to be rather less lethal than was required, so it was decided to move up to 25mm. The infantry weapon (the OICW) combined the 25mm weapon and a 5.56mm rifle in one unwieldy arrangement that has now been dropped. There will be a semi-automatic 25mm weapon (the XM-25) for the infantry (that looks and feels like a hefty shotgun) and the automatic XM307 (which weighs 50 pounds and fires the 25mm rounds at the rate of about 250 a minute, or four a second.) The computer controlled 25mm round, at over 20 bucks each, can also be fired one at a time. This will often be sufficient, because the XM307 has a built in range finder that can put a 25mm round through a window, and have it detonate inside the room. This can be very useful, and there’s no need to put dozens of rounds through the window, as is the case with the current .50 caliber weapon. The XM307 can also fire more conventional armor piercing and incendiary shell. The major problem with the XM307 is that this new computer controlled stuff has not been used in combat yet. Until it is, no one will be quite sure just how much of an improvement it is over Ma Deuce.
I love the .50 cal. We had some ground-pounder fifties mounted on our helicopters in VN till they started shaking out our fillings and the A/C rivets. We soon traded with the Navy and got some specifically made for aircraft mounting. Nothing sounded better when on short final into a hot LZ than to hear those babies open up. Check out my home page where you're looking down the barrel of one.
How soon are the M-2 parts kits going to start turning up as surplus?
Semper Fi and wondering about a trip to Mexico
If I change the barrel and receiver I can probably fire my 30-06 ammo in my .22lr. The stock may have to be modified though.
If the Army needs somebody to take those dirty old machine guns off their hands, I'm available.....
As a special tool for some ops, OK, but otherwise, this project is more money thrown away.
I caught that, too. Kind of a strange statement. It would make more sense if they said that the bolt and barrel needd to be changed.
I hope Uncle Sugar in all his infinite wisdom doesnt torch these old venerable war horses
Like he has those Thompsons, M-14s, etc etc....
Put them in cosmoline for long term storage...as well as spare parts...just in case these new fangled replacements dont measure up...and we at least have something of value that actually works and holds up....
imo
Swap everything EXCEPT the tripod? ;>)
A 1 inch gun borders on being a cannon rather than a machine gun.
How about the CMP?
Semper Fi,
John Browing was a genious. The day he sold the Army on the M1917, he took the Army brass out and demonstrated the reliability of the design by holding down the trigger of the machine gun and firing it for 45 minutes continuously without a single misfire. (Firing rate of about 600 rpm X 45 min = 27,000 rounds)
Needless to say, they were impressed.
I believe that anything larger than a .50 BMG (non-black powder) must be registered with the ATF as a destructive device.
I guess where you can have one but not the other, it would be good. But why not have both?
Interestingly, 20mm and 25mm were the calibers for many of the early (often hand operated) machine cannon of the late 19th century -- nordenfeldt and gardiner quick-firing guns, etc.
Speaking of the CMP, I got my tracking number for a Greek H&R rack grade just this morning to be delivered tomorrow. I feel a case of Garanditis coming on and may have to call in sick tomorrow.
Gunnery ping.
Only if you can get an illegal to bring it back across the border. You'd get nailed if you're legal.
Don't worry, some branches will be using M2s for another 50 years. No way will Seabees be getting that fancy expensive stuff until every last M2 is used up.
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon. One of these days, I'll get around to assembling my 1919A4 kit.
Bang (and it's "Deuce", not "Duce")
Given the news of late, I can hear my NM garand stirring in the rack. I've got a fair amount of blacktip put away for the inevitable Day...
I couldn't afford to feed one unless I got an 8mm barrel for it.
Practice makes perfect.
BFL
bump ..... wonder how much this is : XM-25 ??
Right! Do they make to .22 LR conversion kit for the M-2 like for the 1911?
I have to agree....the gun grabbers in congress will probably have them destroyed like the old .30 cla machine guns. If we were smart we'd put them in cosmoline in case we ever have a go with the chicoms. If we ever fight the PLA, having 'machine gun' units makes a lot of sense.
What would John Kerry think about using a 25mm machine gun since he testified that using the .50 caliber machine gun against infantry was a war crime.
Not to mention your shoulder. :)
It's really a miniature auto grenade launcher. Frankly, if it works, it'll change the tactics of infantry fighting, as one won't be able to simply hide behind a wall or baricade, and firing out of windows will be considerably less secure. It may not be wholly revolutionary, but it will certainly be substantial...if it works.
"I believe that anything larger than a .50 BMG (non-black powder) must be registered with the ATF as a destructive device."
Only if it has rifling in the barrel. That leaves a neat loophole! (High performance SABOT ammo in a 12 gauge for instance.)
You are correct. The bigger-than-fifty number was selected with the old British .55 caliber Boys AntiTank rifle in mind.
I'm polishing and decapping 30-06 military brass...my Garand has been making "take me out the range" noises from my gun safe.
XM307 25mm Advanced Crew Served Machine Gun
Mission: Provide vehicle and weapon squads with decisive overmatch capability with high explosive air burst (HEAB) and armor-piercing (AP) ammunition.
Description: The XM307 25mm Advanced Crew Served Machine Gun will replace selected MK-19 grenade machine guns and M-2 heavy machine guns with the next-generation crew served weapon system that will dramatically increase lethality, range, and capability. The XM307 will combine the lethality of a 25mm air-bursting munition, a 25mm AP munition, and an integrated, full solution, Target Acquisition and Fire Control System to produce decisively violent and suppressive target effects and provide a leap ahead in crew served weapons performance.
The Target Acquisition/Fire Control System will incorporate a laser rangefinder, ballistic computer, direct view optics, video sight, electronic compass, thermal capability, and a motion tracker.
The XM307's HEAB munition will be capable of defeating not only exposed targets, but also those in defilade (targets that have taken cover behind structures, terrain features and/or vehicles). The XM307's AP munition will be capable of defeating lightly armored materiel targets.
The weapon's recoil mitigation system allows the gun and tripod to realize great weight savings. Because it is 100 lbs lighter than other crew served weapons, the XM307 (with ammunition) can be easily dismounted from a vehicle and carried into a ground operation by its two-man crew.
The XM312 Lightweight .50 Caliber Machine Gun is a variant of the XM307 that shares approximately 95 percent of the total number of parts. It will replace the heavy barrel M2 and will be approximately one-third the weight. It fires all standard .50 caliber ammunition to include the very effective M903 Saboted Light Armor Penetrator (SLAP) and the MK 211, high explosive (multi-purpose rounds).
Of course they'll be torched - except those going to law enforcement. Can't have citizens going around with any halfway decent firepower. They might be able to intimidate government officials then.
XM312 Lightweight .50 Caliber Machine Gun
Mission: Provide vehicle and weapon squads with a very light weight .50 caliber weapon system that is easily dismounted from vehicles for ground mount applications.
Description: The XM312 is a light weight .50 caliber machine gun capable of firing all of the current .50 caliber ammunitions in the inventory. This includes, but not limited to, the standard M33 ball round, the M8 armor piercing incendiary (API), the M903 saboted light armor penetrator (SLAP) and the MK211 multipurposed round that penetrates, fragments, and starts fires.
The .50 caliber XM312 weapon is derived from the 25mm XM307 weapon Advanced Crew Served Weapon (formerly known as the Objective Crew Served Weapon (OCSW)). An XM312 weapon can be created by replacing only five parts in the XM307 weapon. The commonality of these two weapons greatly enhances supportability. First, training is simplified. Operator and maintenance training will both be reduced in scope since the principles of operation and the repair procedures will be very similar. Second, spare and repair parts will be significantly reduced in type, quantity on-hand, and also in manufacturing cost. Safety will be improved through the elimination of the requirement for the operator to adjust headspace and timing. Also, familiarity of one system rather than two separate systems further increases safety.
The XM312 weapon will primarily replace most of the currently fielded M2 .50 caliber machine guns. The XM312 will also be the foundation for the Future Combat System's Common Close Support Weapon system providing a low risk approach and easy growth potential to 25mm air bursting munitions. This spiral development approach provides tremendous flexibility for the Transformation campaign. The XM312 and/or the XM307 are currently planned for mounting on seven of the eight vehicles requiring close support offensive and defensive capabilities. By replacing the 75-year-old M2 machine gun the Army achieves significant reductions in weight and recoil force.
The XM312 weighs approximately one third the weight of the M2 and imparts only one quarter of the recoil. This lighter weight permits easy dismount and ground transportability when necessary and the reduced recoil will lead to greater lethality through increase first burst accuracy.
"Maybe they’ll get in the habit of slipping a fresh battery into each box of 25mm ammo."
This does NOT give me the warm fuzzies.
The only gun I want anything to do with that requires electricity is a mini-gun.
ping
Stay safe !
This does not give me a warm fuzzy, anymore so than the new uniforms they are marching out. The Ma Duce ain't broke so why in the heck are we fixing it?
My father-in-law advised some of the S. Korean army from 1948 to 1950. They used a M2 with a T&E for a sniper weapon.
I too used the M2 in such a manner . Some actually had a base for mounting a rifle scope and we used it to SMUD ordnance at distance till we got issued M82A1 Barretts.
The old and worn out song isn't gonna be easy to dance to as nothing gets out of the armory or depot unless it's OK. When in doubt all the way in and two and a half out. Headspace gauges are for wuss's !.........:o)
Stay safe !
Sounds like they are at aleast admitting to real problems with the electronics (giving the soldiers a non-battery alternative!) and are aknowledging the HIGH expense of the big shell with all its (expensive)fancy explosive/fusing/sensing devices.
For the FIRST time in manual weapons since it started making them in the 1790's, the Army is at last testing them properly. And rejecting failures!
Then again, now the grunts will have carry the electronics version(s) AND the 50 cal. barrel/bolt/receveier ... EQuals more weight.
In the made for TV movie about Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba which aired a few months ago, they had some cannon which looked (and were fired like) Gatling guns but looked to be using about 2 inch cartriges. They sound like the guns you are talking about.
I was thinking about WW II aircraft, where (I think) they used the terminology of machine gun to refer to the .50 Cal weapons, but referred to the larger guns as cannon.
That is why the M-2 is considered a crewed weapon.
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