Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Victor Davis Hanson: The New Defeatism, Are we giving up, even as we’re succeeding?
NRO ^ | June 4, 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 06/04/2004 6:01:43 AM PDT by Tolik

Nothing has been quite as depressing as watching Washington and New York melt down during these past two months. History in D.C. is apparently measured by hours, not decades — and its lessons are gleaned from last night's reruns.

Liberal pundits went ballistic over Abu Ghraib and Fallujah. Worse still, many conservatives bailed or triangulated. Meanwhile, bin Laden's clique talks endlessly of payback for Jerusalem, Afghanistan, and Iraq — jettisoning the casus belli of his 1998 fatwa about U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia and the U.N. blockade — even as our elites, aping the Spanish, claim that only Iraq stirred up terrorism.

In somber tones newscasters assure us of all sorts of bad things to come. But our soldiers have continued to fight in Iraq as the plans for transition have inched forward. So let us review the conventional ignorance and ponder what exactly is our national affliction.

No Plan? For those who think that we are either incompetent or disingenuous in Iraq, look at Kurdistan, where seven million people live under humane government with less than 300 American troops. How did that happen? The people of Kurdistan are Islamic, often quarrelsome folks — in the heart of the Middle East — now residing in relative safety and autonomy, and expressing good will toward the United States. They accept that we don't want Kurdish oil any more than we want to take over the sands and slums of the Sunni Triangle. So the problem in central Iraq is not us, but rather the fact that unlike Kurdistan — which had a decade of transition toward consensual society thanks to Anglo-American pilots — the country is reeling from 30 years of autocracy, in which Islamic fascism offered an alternative of sorts to an ossified Soviet-style dictatorship.

We have always had a "plan" in Iraq — it was to leave the country something like its northern third in Kurdistan. Precisely because it was costly, idealistic, and dangerous, we should expect a lot of killing and bombing in the next few months as an array of opponents tries to derail the upcoming transition and elections. Anyone who thinks thousands of Islamic fascists and out-of-work Baathists won't want to stop the region's first consensual government is unhinged. But, again, for all our mistakes of omission there was and is a plan — and it is now slowly coming to messy fruition. Even after the spring nightmare, we do not hear many Iraqis saying, "Leave right now and take your stinking $87 billion with you," much less, "Give us back Saddam" or "Quit stealing our oil for your cheap gas."

Neoconservatives? Let us be frank. This appellation is no longer a descriptive term of so-called "new conservatives," those members of the eastern intelligentsia who were rather liberal on some domestic hot-button issues (tolerant of open borders, quiet about abortion, indifferent to gay marriage, etc.), but promoted a proactive neo-Wilsonian idealism in foreign policy (whether in the Balkans in taking out Milosevic or in trying to replace Saddam Hussein with democracy rather than a Shah-like proconsul).

Instead, face the ugly fact: "Neocon" is now a slur for "Jew." General Zinni (who once boasted that 600 to 2,000 Iraqis were eliminated from the air in his Operation Desert Fox bombing campaign) is now ubiquitous on television hawking his new book, criticizing the war (on Memorial Day, no less), and being praised in the Arab news as he talks about "Perle, Wolfowitz, and Feith" and all those who purportedly got us into Iraq.

"Cabal" and "Nazi-like" are also used by others and with increasing frequency to promote the old idea of crafty, sneaky people pulling the wool over honest naifs (no doubt aw-shucks, unsophisticated folks such as Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, and Rice). A shameful Senator Hollings has no apologies for claiming that our policy was misdirected for Israel's sake. Even a saucer-eyed Al Gore got into the spirit of things. Recently he screamed out the names of those who must walk his plank, and went into an exorcist-like trance when his vein-bulging, spinning-head got to spitting out the name "Woolfwoootizzzzz."

If there was advice from a "bloc" of so-called neoconservatives, it has not "failed," but is in fact already working even as we caricature it: We've taken out Saddam; we are on the eve of a transition to an autonomous reform government; and we are shooting the enemy 7,000 miles away, rather than being murdered at Ground Zero. And, by any historical standard, we are fighting in both an economical and humane fashion.

Israel? Most of us are tired of reading daily that Israel is making problems for us. It is a liberal democracy and currently in the throes of a national debate about whether to withdraw from a territory, Gaza, from which it was attacked in three wars. Its uniformed military targets terrorists; its main opponent's terrorists seek to kill civilians. We should have more confidence in its free press, elected officials, and voting citizenry to craft a humane policy — under threat of suicide murdering, no less — than in all the corrupt and fascistic regimes that surround it. It once took out — at great risk to itself — Iraq's nuclear reactor; it did not sell the reactor at great profit or take control of that country's oil.

If this caring world is worried about the injustice of a fence or Islamaphobia, then start slurring nuclear India for its $1 billion fence, which shuts off the entire (impoverished Muslim) country of Bangladesh — a far harsher blow to far more millions than Israel's so-called "Wall" aimed at stopping suicide killing.

If we hate the principle of "occupied lands," then let Europe cease trade with China and hector that dictatorial government about the cultural obliteration of occupied Tibet.

If we are truly worried about violence, then let the U.N. and the EU turn their attention to Nigeria, where thousands are murdered yearly.

If the death of tens of thousands of Muslims and the desecration of mosques bother the Arab League, then let them blast the Arabs of the Sudan, who are systematically and in the most racist fashion butchering black Muslims.

But if after all that we have still not gotten our bearings, then let us rail about Sharon and the "occupation," and thus enable the Arab world to forget its self-induced misery and find psychic reassurance, as Europe too often has, by blaming Jews.

No al Qaeda links? Equally bothersome is the old canard, "Saddam was a secularist and hated al Qaeda" — as though simultaneous enemies of America have always shared the same ideology. Just ask the Japanese and Germans, or the Chinese and Russians, who agreed to set aside their mutual hatred to fight us for being emissaries of freedom. Under the Clinton administration it was considered standard intelligence dogma that Osama and Saddam worked together; only the controversy over Iraq has post-facto questioned that former pillar of American and European intelligence doctrine — and for entirely political reasons.

There was a reason Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas were in Baghdad. And it was the same reason why al Qaeda was working in Kurdistan, why al Zarqawi went to Baghdad to Saddam's doctors, why there is good reason to believe that before the first World Trade Center bombing the culpable terrorists had ties with Iraqi intelligence, and why seized documents now coming to light in Iraq reveal a long history of cooperation between Islamic terrorists and Saddam's secret police. To think otherwise would be crazy, given the shared aims of both in attacking Americans and getting them out of the Middle East. The only puzzle is whether Saddam contributed to the 9/11 terrorist fund or simply was apprised of al Qaeda's general efforts.

Our Real Dilemma. We do have a grave problem in this country, but it is not the plan for Iraq, the neoconservatives, or targeting Saddam. Face it: This present generation of leaders at home would never have made it to Normandy Beach. They would instead have called off the advance to hold hearings on Pearl Harbor, cast around blame for the Japanese internment, sued over the light armor and guns of Sherman tanks, apologized for bombing German civilians, and recalled General Eisenhower to Washington to explain the rough treatment of Axis prisoners.

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing, and in our self-absorption may well lose what we inherited from a better generation. Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

Judging from our newspapers, we seem to care little about the soldiers while they are alive and fighting, but we suddenly put their names on our screens and speak up when dozen err or die. And, in the latter case, our concern is not out of respect for their sacrifice but more likely a protest against what we don't like done in our name. So ABC's Nightline reads the names of the fallen from Iraq, but not those from the less controversial Afghanistan, because ideological purity — not remembering the departed per se — is once again the real aim.

Our very success after September 11 — perhaps because of the Patriot Act, the vigilance of domestic-security agencies, and the global reach of our military — has prevented another catastrophe of mass murder, but also allowed us to become complacent, and thus once more cynical and near suicidal. We can afford to be hypercritical and so groan at a Rudolph Giuliani at the 9/11 hearings only because brave men and women prevented more suicide bombings. We caricature our efforts in Iraq and demonize a good man like Paul Wolfowitz, even as a courageous and competent military took out Saddam in three weeks — and, in far less time that the occupations took in Germany and Japan (likewise both written off as failures of the times) allowed an autonomous and soon-to-be-elected government to take over.

Partisanship about the war earlier on established the present sad paradox of election-year politicking: Good news from Iraq is seen as bad news for John Kerry, and vice versa. If that seems too harsh a judgment, we should ask whether Terry McAuliffe would prefer, as would the American people, Osama bin Laden captured in June, more sarin-laced artillery shells found in July, al-Zarqawi killed in August, al-Sadr tried and convicted by Iraqi courts in September, an October sense of security and calm in Baghdad, and Syria pulling a Libya in November.

These depressing times really are much like the late 1960s, when only a few dared to plead that Hue and Tet were not abject defeats, but rare examples of American courage and skill. But now as then, the louder voice of defeatism smothers all reason, all perspective, all sense of balance — and so the war is not assessed in terms of five years but rather by the last five hours of ignorant punditry. Shame on us all.

Historic forces of the ages are in play. If we can just keep our sanity a while longer, accept our undeniable mistakes, learn from them, and press on, Iraq really will emerge as the constitutional antithesis of Saddam Hussein, and that will be a good and noble thing — impossible without America and its most amazing military


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: defeatism; iraq; vdh; victordavishanson

1 posted on 06/04/2004 6:01:44 AM PDT by Tolik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: seamole; Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; yonif; SJackson; dennisw; monkeyshine; Alouette; ...
  Victor Davis Hanson Ping!  
2 posted on 06/04/2004 6:02:59 AM PDT by Tolik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik; StriperSniper; Mo1; Peach; Howlin; kimmie7; 4integrity; BigSkyFreeper; RandallFlagg; ...

V.D.H.

PING....................


3 posted on 06/04/2004 6:03:30 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alouette; SJackson; veronica; Slings and Arrows
Neoconservatives?Let us be frank. This appellation is no longer a descriptive term of so-called "new conservatives," those members of the eastern intelligentsia who were rather liberal on some domestic hot-button issues (tolerant of open borders, quiet about abortion, indifferent to gay marriage, etc.), but promoted a proactive neo-Wilsonian idealism in foreign policy (whether in the Balkans in taking out Milosevic or in trying to replace Saddam Hussein with democracy rather than a Shah-like proconsul).

Instead, face the ugly fact: "Neocon" is now a slur for "Jew."

PING!

4 posted on 06/04/2004 6:08:31 AM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (I feel more and more like a revolted Charlton Heston, witnessing ape society for the very first time)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

later


5 posted on 06/04/2004 6:10:18 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Have you ever considered adopting a homeless bird?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Instead, face the ugly fact: "Neocon" is now a slur for "Jew."

Have to admit, as far as a lot of Democrats are concerned, he is correct.

6 posted on 06/04/2004 6:17:06 AM PDT by gilliam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
What a great column, with loads of good ideas.

Thanks for posting it.

7 posted on 06/04/2004 6:19:01 AM PDT by syriacus (Have you hugged a rudderless, down-at-the-mouth liberal today?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
we should expect a lot of killing and bombing in the next few months ...

I don't think so. The value to the terrorists of bombing Iraqi citizens now seems counterproductive. Now that they have been snookered by Bush in the early transition of power, even the killing of American soldiers, now not seen as OCCUPIERS, will be seen differently by the citizenry. I think Iraq is a lost cause for the enemy now, the question is do they understand this now, or will they come to the inevitable conclusion later.

8 posted on 06/04/2004 6:21:29 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
You can't say it better:

Our Real Dilemma. We do have a grave problem in this country, but it is not the plan for Iraq, the neoconservatives, or targeting Saddam. Face it: This present generation of leaders at home would never have made it to Normandy Beach. They would instead have called off the advance to hold hearings on Pearl Harbor, cast around blame for the Japanese internment, sued over the light armor and guns of Sherman tanks, apologized for bombing German civilians, and recalled General Eisenhower to Washington to explain the rough treatment of Axis prisoners.

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing, and in our self-absorption may well lose what we inherited from a better generation. Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

 

9 posted on 06/04/2004 6:23:14 AM PDT by Tolik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: syriacus
Four more Americans dead today and the insurgents control Fallujah and Hanson, ever the starry eyed Wilsonian, thinks we are "winning." It is advice from people like Hanson which got us into this hopeless mess.
10 posted on 06/04/2004 6:26:03 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Important words from a master.


11 posted on 06/04/2004 6:26:41 AM PDT by maica (Member of Republican Attack Machine, RAM, previously known as the VRWC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: maica

Historic forces of the ages are in play. If we can just keep our sanity a while longer, accept our undeniable mistakes, learn from them, and press on, Iraq really will emerge as the constitutional antithesis of Saddam Hussein, and that will be a good and noble thing — impossible without America and its most amazing military


12 posted on 06/04/2004 6:27:35 AM PDT by Tolik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Your advice sounds like my liberal friends who think we could have "won" the war on poverty if only we had spent more money.


13 posted on 06/04/2004 6:31:45 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Thanks, Tolik, those were the paragraphs I was going to stress too. One of Hanson's best columns.


14 posted on 06/04/2004 6:50:56 AM PDT by Let's Roll (Kerry is a self-confessed unindicted war criminal or ... a traitor to his country in a time of war)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
Mornin', y'all. Victor Davis Hanson of National Review sums up what I've been thinking pretty durn well. I have a brother who does nothing but shoot off things he's heard or read, about how we had al-Sadr in custody and we let him go, how Bush lies every day, and all I can think about is how history, in the end, will vindicate us in this. I'm done looking for approval from our contemporaries. VDH says:

"If there was advice from a "bloc" of so-called neoconservatives, it has not "failed," but is in fact already working even as we caricature it: We've taken out Saddam; we are on the eve of a transition to an autonomous reform government; and we are shooting the enemy 7,000 miles away, rather than being murdered at Ground Zero. And, by any historical standard, we are fighting in both an economical and humane fashion."

Any time I hear someone talking about how we've failed in Iraq, I'm ready to tell them to wait ten years, at least, and then listen to the media talk about how it was a turning point in history and the first step forward for the Middle East. History will vindicate us. Have a great day. Greg's Fishing Reports

15 posted on 06/04/2004 7:01:30 AM PDT by KDRaiderofthenight
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik; Pokey78
Even a saucer-eyed Al Gore got into the spirit of things. Recently he screamed out the names of those who must walk his plank, and went into an exorcist-like trance when his vein-bulging, spinning-head got to spitting out the name "Woolfwoootizzzzz."

LOL! Proof that VDH has been reading Mark Steyn, and taking notes!

16 posted on 06/04/2004 7:17:03 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (hoplophobia is a mental aberration rather than a mere attitude)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
Face it: This present generation of leaders at home would never have made it to Normandy Beach. They would instead have called off the advance to hold hearings on Pearl Harbor, cast around blame for the Japanese internment, sued over the light armor and guns of Sherman tanks, apologized for bombing German civilians, and recalled General Eisenhower to Washington to explain the rough treatment of Axis prisoners.

Someone needs to put this on the president's desk.

17 posted on 06/04/2004 7:31:22 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.


18 posted on 06/04/2004 7:54:12 AM PDT by SJackson (America...thru dissent and protest lost the ability to mobilize a will to win, Col Bui Tin, PAVN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik; Temple Owl

bump


19 posted on 06/04/2004 7:59:16 AM PDT by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
I think part of the reason the media has been so negative is that even the Bush supporters in the media went along with the negative portrait during the spring. By making things appear as bad as possible during the spring anything that happens this summer is likely to appear to be an improvement. With the economy already picking up and with things going better in Iraq just in time for the GOP convention Bush could be looking forward to a blowout victory.
20 posted on 06/04/2004 12:00:34 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright
Four more Americans dead today

We all grieve for the men who die or are severely injured while fighting. Greater love than this no man hath...

Let's also take a look at snippets of actions the 36th Infantry -- the Texas T-Patchers -- participated in...

The landing at Salerno: September, 1943

The British and Americans had held the beachead, and moving reinforcing divisions inland. They [British and Americans] had taken over 13,700 casualties in 11 days of brutal combat. [snip]

This assault force consisted of the green, but well trained 36th Texas National Guard Infantry Division.[snip]

The 36th Infantry bled heavy from fighting an enemy who possessed a plethora of support weapons, and machine guns firing at a rate of over 1,000 rounds a minute from dominating elevated terrain. Regardless, the 36th Infantry Div. managed to clear some enmy positions to create a small enclave for follow on forces. A toehold had been secured in Italy, but a shaky one [snip]

[September 15th, 1943]-- Multiple battalions of German armored vehicles and tanks came streaming into the perimeter letting loose with devastating fire preceded by a severe German artillery bombardment. The American infantry were stunned, and shattered. Survivors came trickling back with cries of desperation, and horror stories.

See also, http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/salerno/sal-dday.htm
21 posted on 06/04/2004 4:10:54 PM PDT by syriacus (Have you hugged a rudderless, down-at-the-mouth liberal today?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright
hopeless mess.

Hopeless is...as hopeless does....LIFE Magazine: Americans Are Losing the Victory in Europe January 7, 1946

22 posted on 06/04/2004 4:17:18 PM PDT by syriacus (Have you hugged a rudderless, down-at-the-mouth liberal today?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

the university anti-semites always start their rant with the neo-cons.


23 posted on 06/04/2004 4:22:05 PM PDT by no_problema
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: N8VTXNinWV

Victor Davis Hanson ping! Great insight, as usual.


24 posted on 06/04/2004 4:26:44 PM PDT by shezza
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright

"Four more Americans dead today and the insurgents control Fallujah and Hanson, ever the starry eyed Wilsonian, thinks we are "winning." It is advice from people like Hanson which got us into this hopeless mess."

***

Gosh, Austin, I guess you're right! 4 dead just broke our backs! No army in all of world history has ever survived the loss of 10% of a platoon! Time to cut and run! Glad you Buchananites were in a tiny minority back in the early 40's!

(From a guy with a brother in the Army who could get sent at any time...)


25 posted on 06/04/2004 4:44:17 PM PDT by Zhangliqun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: hopespringseternal
hopespringseternal wrote:

Someone needs to put this on the president's desk

Yes indeed, but it needs editing, so that Bush can get the picture.
-- In his way, Hansen IS laying the mess on the presidents desk:

Our Real Dilemma. We do have a grave problem in this country, but it is not the plan for Iraq, the neoconservatives, or targeting Saddam.
Face it:
This present generation of leaders at home would never have made it to Normandy Beach.
Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

"Our present generation of leaders" does not exclude the GOP, imo.

26 posted on 06/04/2004 4:57:17 PM PDT by tpaine ("The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." -- Solzhenitsyn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
But now as then, the louder voice of defeatism smothers all reason, all perspective, all sense of balance

So true. Also, that same voice has the same goal - the defeat of America!

27 posted on 06/04/2004 5:05:50 PM PDT by Gritty ("Democrats and media want Iraq to go away so we can get back to Clinton-era micro-politics - M Steyn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

Bump for the brilliant VDH!!!


28 posted on 06/04/2004 6:05:04 PM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades...And panties!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Re-Bump and thanks Tolik!


29 posted on 06/04/2004 6:05:38 PM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades...And panties!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

bttt


30 posted on 06/04/2004 6:07:50 PM PDT by TEXOKIE (The Will of God is Good! Not my will, not my will, not my will, but Thine be done!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing,

BINGO! We have a winner.


31 posted on 06/04/2004 8:41:24 PM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

He forgot the part about no WMD. Minor oversight I'm sure.


32 posted on 06/04/2004 9:01:39 PM PDT by Buck72
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Hanson's fired up. He sounds good too.


33 posted on 06/04/2004 9:37:16 PM PDT by beckett
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright

A hopeless mess? You can't be serious!. Good god, man, go back behind your mommy's apron where you belong.


34 posted on 06/04/2004 9:39:34 PM PDT by beckett
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright
...the insurgents control Fallujah...

By the way, chicken little, who controls the other 8000 towns and villages in Iraq? Or is that just a minor detail not worthy of mention because it might tend to be, heaven forefend, positive news?

And you might profit (though I doubt it) from reading this email from an American Marine outside Fallujah:

As far as Falluja goes, we have not been allowed to get back in there with any real numbers yet. Initially, it was confounding. However, a very interesting dynamic has developed. Since we have stayed out of Falluja and focused elsewhere, the mujahadeen have had their run of the town. As they have had no one to fight, they have turned their criminal instincts on the citizens. The clerics who once were whipping these idiots into a suicidal frenzy are now having to issue Fatwas (holy decrees) admonishing the muj for extortion, rape, murder and kidnapping. It is unfortunate for the "innocent people" of Falluja but the mujahadeen have betrayed themselves as the thugs that they are by brutalizing the civilians. There are, in fact, reports of rape, etc from inside the town. While the muj are thugging away inside the town, we are about 1/2 mile away paying claims, entering into dialogue and contracting jobs. The citizens come outside the city for work and money and are treated like human beings. They go back inside and enter a lawless hell. In short, the muj have done more to show the people what hypocrites they are in a few short weeks than we could have hoped for in a year. The result is more and more targetable intelligence. If we are given the green light, we can really go to town on these guys (no pun intended). However, as much as we would like to do just that, the optimal solution is to empower the Iraqis to take care of it themselves. That is precisely what we are doing.

35 posted on 06/04/2004 9:45:01 PM PDT by beckett
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright
Four more Americans dead today

I forgot to mention the statistic my husband often alludes to...deaths due to one day of battle at Antietam .

No one knows the actual number of men who would later die of their wounds or the number of missing who had been killed. If you take a conservative estimate of 20% of the wounded dying of their wounds and 30% of the missing killed, the approximate number of soldiers that died as a result of this battle [Antietam, September 17th, 1862] are 7,640.

36 posted on 06/05/2004 5:25:48 AM PDT by syriacus (Have YOU hugged a rudderless, down-at-the-mouth liberal today?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Thank you for the post, Tolik.

This thread has been designated an official Prayer Warrior Field Trip destination!

For those who may wish to hold vigil and support our troops spiritually with other Freepers, you are invited and welcome to drop by the Troop Prayer Threads.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1101474/posts?page=619


37 posted on 06/05/2004 9:38:14 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (The Will of God is Good! Not my will, not my will, not my will, but Thine be done!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Austin Willard Wright

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing,


This one is for you


38 posted on 06/05/2004 9:54:07 AM PDT by heylady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: TEXOKIE

Thanks for the ping. I would have missd this thread without you.


39 posted on 06/05/2004 10:11:49 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: wayoverontheright

Hope you are right. My son, who was extended, is now with foiur weeks of being out of that country. I surely don't want any more flareups, although I think that the Shiites have go the message that stand-up attacks on the US military are just plain stupid.


40 posted on 06/05/2004 10:29:25 AM PDT by RobbyS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Cannoneer No. 4

:-) you are sooooo welcome!!


41 posted on 06/05/2004 11:22:49 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (The Will of God is Good! Not my will, not my will, not my will, but Thine be done!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Ping to me


42 posted on 06/27/2004 6:52:08 AM PDT by M1Tanker (Proven Daily: Modern "progressive" liberalism is just NAZIism without the "twisted cross")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Tolik
>>>Just ask the Japanese and Germans, or the Chinese and Russians, who agreed to set aside their mutual hatred to fight us for being emissaries of freedom.


43 posted on 03/21/2006 8:53:16 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

Good find. Right on money. Thanks.

BTW that article is as good as new


44 posted on 03/21/2006 10:53:34 AM PST by Tolik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Cannoneer No. 4; Tolik

Yes it is as good as new. Cannoneer No. 4 resurfed it on another thread and I wanted to give it a bump.


BUMP!


45 posted on 03/21/2006 11:10:07 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson