IRAQ: '40 DEAD IN US ATTACK' (Wedding party? - shooting in the air again?)

Sky News ^ | 5/19/04

[WOSG]

This was a wedding and the (U.S.) planes came and attacked the people at a house. Is this the democracy and freedom that (President) Bush has brought us?" said a man on the videotape, Dahham Harraj. "There was no reason."

Why is this knee-jerk dumb question always asked. Like a bad mistake is made and that means that the should *not* have freedom? Or democracy?

This was nothing to do with our goals, good or bad; or our general operations, good or bad. It was a mistake. This was a country at war pretending they can have gunfire in the middle of the night 'just for fun' and it would be safe. DUMB ON BOTH SIDES! This imho is a worse-screw up than Abu Graib, but we'll see how the media plays it. they will probably extract as much negativism they can from the story and move on.

[WOSG]

Evidence?

[WOSG]

"But hey, look at the bright side, it will take the torture story off the headlines"

Come now. First what "torture"? There was no torture at Abu Graib. The only torture in this abuse story is how NYSlimes tortures the English language to make it sound as bad as possible.

Nick Berg couldnt get the story off the front pages.
Assasination of the Iraqi President couldnt do it.
FINDING SARIN GAS COULDNT DISLODGE IT.

Soon enough we will see more Front Page blaring headlines about prison abuse, followed by a little blurb on the front page in small font:

"Asteroid to hit Earth in 7 days, planet to be destroyed, story page A-17"

[Ben Chad]

At elmundo.com, the wedding story is #1, palestinian story #2.

[WOSG]

Well, jews did it. that makes it 5X worse.

But this could hurt Bush politically so it is 10X worse.
I go for this being a bigger story, for a day or two.

Then back to bashing the administration over Abu Graib.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Evidence?

Evidence.

[areafiftyone]

CHECK OUT THIS NEW POST BY EUROTWIT:

U.S. SOURCES: IRAQIS KILLED IN ATTACK ON FOREIGN FIGHTERS SAFE HOUSE

[goldstategop]

I'm waiting for a pledge from the President to exercise "restraint" in our use of force against terrorists.

[areafiftyone]

FROM DEBKA

US helicopter strike reportedly kills 20 to 40 Iraqis in helicopter attack on wedding party west of Ar Ramadi near Jordanian border. Iraqi sources say more than 40 victims, including 15 children and 10 women. US officials say it was no wedding party but insurgents firing on helicopter.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

I'm afraid you are right. This will udoubtably be blamed on Bush personally and it will hurt him politically, also it doesn't do much to win the "hearts & minds" of the Iraqi people. Doubtless this event is a tragedy and a mistake by the military but you can be sure that liberals will scream as if Bush himself ordered this.

[GRRRRR]

Yeah, been to many a late night reception, but we didn't dance around in the darkened parking lot at the Marriot with AK47's and shoot into the darkened sky. Helicopters aren't very quite flying machines...if you hear the WHOP-WHOP of whirleybird blades, DO NOT AIM AND FIRE, especially if you are sitting by the keg.

Something smells terrible about this.
Our pilots wear night vision when they are flying, yes?
Wouldn't they be able to see all the happy party-goers dancing around the fire or some lights???

Methinks this IS a setup---kill some folks, wait until a chopper flies over and shoot at it...

G

[HenryLeeII]

Mr. Owl,

Surely you can see the error in your reasoning. Surely you can understand that Arabs are not like apes due to the apes' lack of living in a tree-less, water-less, inhospitable desert climate.

Surely you understand that Arabs have been a rich source of culture and a veritable well-spring of understanding in recent decades. Surely you'll concede that they want to be just like you and me, and that they're not trying to Islamicize the United States by expecting to move here and have prayer calls blaring from their mosques' loud speakers, having their ID photos taken with their faces covered by a veil, having their religious beliefs and customs taught in public schools during the Christmas holidays in lieu of anything Christian, etc.

And surely you understand that Arabs have a skillset far beyond simply picking dates and almonds; one that includes such diverse and challenging tasks as piloting airplanes, conducting chemical and biological experimentation, and practising journalism with standards far beyond those set by PBS or CNN.

Surely you can see the errors of your previous replies.

And please don't be so culturally insensitive as to question why a wedding party near the Syrian border would be firing weapons at 2:45 a.m. That is their right, just as it is ours'! I'm often found in the wee hours randomly wondering the streets of my neighborhood, firing my AK-47 into the air, at low-hanging pine cones, and the occasional stray cat. But this does not call for the use of an airstrike against me, does it? Maybe that's how you operate in Philadelphia (remember what your overzealous police did to those peaceful-but-different folks in MOVE, hmm?), but not here!

[End Times Sentinel]

So, which one are you Ignatius?  Beaker or Paranoid Floyd?

Sorry, I had to take the profanities out.  Doesn't say much for your side when you can't complete a thought without using profanity.

---

Beaker  (1000+ posts)	Wed May-19-04 01:52 PM Response to Reply #39
56. here's what one freeper had to say-

Edited on Wed May-19-04 01:53 PM by Beaker

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1138594/posts "Sorry, but that's just the law of natural consequences at work. Nobody made these apes recklessly discharge their weapons into the air and so long as we continue the guise of viewing them as humans, they'll have to take responsibility for their own actions. 12 posted on 05/19/2004 10:41:33 AM PDT by Owl_Eagle

paranoid floyd  (31 posts)	Wed May-19-04 01:57 PM Response to Original message
63. Typical Freeper Response

Holy shit these people are f*cked. This is what Owl_Eagle has to say: "Sorry, but that's just the law of natural consequences at work. Nobody made these apes recklessly discharge their weapons into the air and so long as we continue the guise of viewing them as humans, they'll have to take responsibility for their own actions." Talk to me when your kids have been slaughtered assh*le.

 

Owl_Eagle
" WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH"

[Ruth A.]

You know, a few weeks ago I would have tried to muster up a Christian compassion. Now I am thinking, Too bad. That's war. We even lose some of ours in "friendly fire."

[Ignatius J Reilly]

Owl,

I am neither. Let me clear up a few things for you. I believe this war to be the right thing to do and am pro-Bush, so in that respect I'm on your side. I was just offended by your post, I happen to think that Arabs (while many deserve death)are human beings and many Iraqis are innocent victims that suffered under a brutal dictator. I believe that while you are correct in your assessment of contributions to the world by Arab culture it does not make it OK to kill innocent Arabs without remorse. I'll even go one step closer to your view by agreeing that shooting guns into the air in a war zone was a very fool hardy thing to do, additionally the response of our troops while a mistake in retrospect was a simple case of soldiers in a war zone doing what soldiers do (ie if someone is shooting at you you shoot back). Does not mean that I am not saddened by the loss of innocent lives? No, additionally I am saddened by the backlash toads the Bush administration that will come as result of this action.

I went and read some of your responses to previous threads and find that you have a very demented sense of humor, which I like. I hope that we can disagree about the relative humanity of Arabs without being enemies because, believe it or not, we are on the same (right)side.

"This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who." - Monty Python's Holy Grail

[Springman]

These Iraq's have been reading letters from relatives in Detroit telling them how the locals Rock in the New Year. They should know better in a war zone!!!

[JediForce]

Michael Moore has a new movie idea :

MY BIG FAT DEAD IRAQI WEDDING !

Sometimes I just can't help myself.

[End Times Sentinel]

Although it now looks like this story may have migrated from where it started, I made some accusations and I'll own up.

 

I'll take back that you're from DU, no one there is cogent enough to put together a post like yours (#73).  And you seem to have a much better grasp on the facts than I estimated, so I'll withdraw the accusations of not thinking just feeling as well.

 

Here's the crux of the issue:

I was just offended by your post, I happen to think that Arabs (while many deserve death)are human beings and many Iraqis are innocent victims that suffered under a brutal dictator.

 

This, is the conundrum.  Who the hell is it we're actually helping?  My guess is that probably 70 percent would like for us to stay (for the near future), 20 percent are on the fence, and 10 percent desperately want us out so they can return to a brutal dictatorship in which they call the shots.

 

I wonder though, what lies in the hearts of the 70%? 

Do they want freedom that we lust for?  Or do they want improved infrastructure? 

Do they want Saddam out so they can emulate the U.S. and our forfathers?  Or do they want to turn the tables on the Sunni minority and give them their comeupance?

 

Unless were one of the few brave soldiers with boots on the ground, I think we can only guess, and even our soldiers are too close to see the forest for the trees.  It is one of the centeral issues and it's clearly undefinable.

 

I believe that we're doing the right thing there as well.  We can only try our best.  If Iraq becomes a Shining City on a Hill, then great, it's a model for a stable, humane middle east, and that's good for all humanity.  If it crumbles into another radical muslim totalitarian regiem that harbors our enemies, then we can point to it and make the case that there's just no helping some people and they'll need to be dealt with swiftly and severly.

 

I hope that we can disagree about the relative humanity of Arabs without being enemies because, believe it or not, we are on the same (right)side.

I'm sure you see that I'm given to hyperbole (also, interestingly, many current FReepers have been "welcomed" by me accusing them of being DUh'ers).  I think, in my mind, what's important is that Arabs are human, but islam dehumanises them.  I view it almost like an active, unfortunate, decision.  This may, in the end, be responsible for the shelving of the arab world as the rest of the planet moves forward.

 

Does not mean that I am not saddened by the loss of innocent lives?

 

This is where we'll likely agree to disagree.  I freely admit that I have compassion fatigue and will save it for those whom I know are actively on my side.

Owl_Eagle
" WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH"

[HenryLeeII]

This is great, seeing fellow Freepers make up and get on with the bigger issues at hand, such as deciding which side to support in the incident that happened at Trafalgar Square the other day when British homosexual activists came out to support some Palestinian protestors, but made the mistake of also voicing their displeasure of how gay Pali's are treated. This led to their being attacked verbally and possibly physically. Such is the moral conundrum of our times! But I'm glad to see you two make up. I think we can all agree that Arabs are humans like any of us, but that the radicalized Islamicist culture dehumanizes some of them and turns them intolerant, and violent (much like the hip-hop culture has done to some blacks).