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FBI called Kerry `glib, cool' critic of Vietnam War
AP via Houston Chronicle ^ | May 5, 2004, 11:32PM | no byline

Posted on 05/05/2004 11:55:48 PM PDT by weegee

WASHINGTON -- The FBI considered John Kerry a "glib, cool" spokesman for Vietnam war protesters when he was attached to an anti-war veterans group, but the bureau focused on more radical elements of the organization during an investigation spanning four years, documents show.

In more than 9,000 pages from the early 1970s, the FBI is seen tracking the protests, manifestos and myriad activities of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and concluding that the group took a more extreme turn in the years after Kerry, now the Democratic presidential candidate, quit it.

FBI files on the organization were released Wednesday in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by the Associated Press and other news organizations.

Kerry is accused in the file of little more than charisma.

An FBI summary of the anti-war protests he helped organize in April 1971 says Kerry, a decorated war hero, "overshadowed" many of the organization's other leaders and was "a more popular and eloquent figure" than the rest.

"Kerry was glib, cool, and displayed just what the moderate elements wanted to reflect," the summary says.

Although the FBI was watching Kerry and the other protesters earlier in 1971, it placed the group under active investigation in August of that year after reports from many field offices that members were "engaging in illegal and subversive activities," an FBI memo says.

Kerry left the group before the end of 1971 and was not implicated in violent activities or conspiracies attributed to other members in the file.

That memo, which does not mention Kerry, says that in 1972, the group "moved toward increased militant and revolutionary-type activities in addition to continued cooperation with communist-dominated groups and foreign elements hostile to the U.S."

By then, Kerry had moved on to an ill-fated run for a seat in Congress.

Campaigning Wednesday in Los Angeles, Kerry welcomed the release of the records.

"I think it's great," he said. "I'm very proud of my efforts to end the war. I welcome anybody's perusal of them. I'm proud that I stood up to Richard Nixon. And you know, I personally have also requested those documents. So I'm happy to have them out there. It's terrific."

Kerry is mentioned only sporadically in the file, most of which covers the group's activities from 1972 to 1975.

An April 12, 1971, FBI memo from Baltimore quotes a confidential source as saying that Kerry had been telling the group that "Congress is prepared to listen" to their anti-war agenda but cautioned that it was critical that demonstrations remain nonviolent. Kerry was on the group's national steering committee at the time.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: 2004election; 2004electionbias; aidandcomfort; ccrm; election2004; fakesoldiers; fbi; fbifiles; johnkerry; kerry; kerrywasinvietnam; liedaboutmedals; liedaboutwarcrimes; liedatrallies; liedtocongress; liedtothepress; lyingliar; mediabias; mediabs; nixonbashing; northvietnamwarhero; toolofcommunists; traitor; treason; usefulidiot; vavw; vietnam; vietnamveterans; vietnamvets; vietnamwar; vvaw
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1 posted on 05/05/2004 11:55:49 PM PDT by weegee
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To: weegee
An FBI summary of the anti-war protests he helped organize in April 1971 says Kerry, a decorated war hero, "overshadowed" many of the organization's other leaders and was "a more popular and eloquent figure" than the rest.

Do you think that the FBI summary characterized John Kerry as a "decorated war hero" or is that just a "helpful" reminder from AP?

2 posted on 05/05/2004 11:57:50 PM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS. CNN ignored torture & murder in Saddam's Iraq to keep their Baghdad Bureau.)
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To: weegee
DUH
3 posted on 05/06/2004 12:04:46 AM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security!)
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To: weegee
More proof of FBI imcompetence!
4 posted on 05/06/2004 12:13:03 AM PDT by opinionator
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To: opinionator
More proof of FBI imcompetence!


LOL yup!
5 posted on 05/06/2004 12:38:55 AM PDT by GottaLuvAkitas1 (What a Tangled Web We Weave . .when first we practice to deceive!)
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To: weegee; Sabertooth; Liz; backhoe; ravingnutter; philman_36; mabelkitty
This article is inaccurate in stating that "Kerry left the group before the end of 1971", for Kerry continued to work with the group into 1972, as has been discussed on other FR threads; and the article is also very selective and misleading in its summary of the FBI's files. Well before 1971, as early as 1965, J. Edgar Hoover briefed the Johnson administration on the antiwar movement's ties to foreign Communist influence, which is discussed in Athan Theoharis and John Stuart Cox, The Boss, 448-449. During this period the Bureau, in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis, was particularly concerned with Cuban influence on the civil rights and antiwar movements via groups such as the Socialist Workers Party/Young Socialist Alliance, the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, the Venceremos Brigade, and various other groups. Accordingly, during the Johnson and Nixon administrations the FBI conducted extensive surveillance of antiwar groups such as Students for a Democratic Society and the Weathermen; and this surveillance formed the context of the Bureau's investigation of the VVAW, which was linked to various other antiwar groups. As part of its investigation of the antiwar movement, the Bureau monitored such Communist publications as The Daily World, which reported on Kerry prominently during 1971. During 1971 the Bureau focused surveillance on close allies of the VVAW such as George McGovern and Ramsey Clark (cf. Theoharis and Cox, 478, 481-483). The Bureau's Surreptitious Entries files pdf file 23a, pp. 18-19 mention surveillance of VVAW the Bureau conducted in November 1971. The 1972 surveillance of VVAW is discussed in the Bureau's file on the related group Clergy and Laity Concerned About Vietnam, pdf file 1a, pp. 94-121, which traces CALCAV's suspicious activity back to the mid-60s. In this context note that Kerry joined VVAW while working for the antiwar clergyman Fr. Robert Drinan. The notion that the Bureau's interest in Kerry was limited to his charisma is patently absurd.
6 posted on 05/06/2004 1:53:40 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: piasa
Ping.
7 posted on 05/06/2004 1:59:04 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: Timesink; *CCRM; martin_fierro; reformed_democrat; Loyalist; =Intervention=; PianoMan; GOPJ; ...
The "revived" public Media Schadenfreude and and Media Shenanigans lists PING
8 posted on 05/06/2004 2:01:54 AM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS. CNN ignored torture & murder in Saddam's Iraq to keep their Baghdad Bureau.)
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To: weegee
"Kerry was glib, cool, and displayed just what the moderate elements wanted to reflect," the summary says.

I see his role has not changed.
9 posted on 05/06/2004 2:03:22 AM PDT by dyed_in_the_wool ("Kerry was glib, cool, and displayed just what the moderate elements wanted to reflect")
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To: Fedora; cricket; onyx
Charisma, my Aunt Tillie.

Kerry's money and his connections paved the way for him then, just as he thinks now he's "entitled" to be president b/c of his wealth. Let's not forget one of his first public appearnces when announcing for president was to beat the public over the head about his family connections.....that he'd just found out his father changed his name, and that he had Jewish roots. At the same time, he touted his Irish-Catholic roots to get elected to his Senate seat by that predominant ethnic group.

As the saying goes, Kerry got tonsured for the Catholic vote, circumcized for the Jewish vote, and now he carries around a prayer rug for the Muslim vote.

10 posted on 05/06/2004 3:48:17 AM PDT by Liz
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To: weegee

+

+

=EARLY OUT AND PATHWAY TO BE A US SENATOR!

11 posted on 05/06/2004 5:29:45 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (When do lunatic lib liars like Wilson, Woodward and al Querry stop lying?!!)
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To: Fedora
I was going to point out that he was being identified as a leader of the group well after 1971, too, but scrolled first to see if someone caught that.

I do see that now the record from Kerry has been amended that he left "at the end of '71". A few months ago (and for years) Kerry was claiming that he left that summer--so he could deny attending the assassination meeting in November.

And again with Nixon. Kerry is obsessed with Nixon (proud he "stood up" to him).

12 posted on 05/06/2004 6:31:14 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: Fedora; Hon
Kerry left the group before the end of 1971

Ahem:

Kerry Still Called Himself The Head Of VVAW In January 1973

13 posted on 05/06/2004 6:37:22 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: weegee
I just called the FBI D.C. FOIA office to see if they were going to add these files to their online Electronic Reading Room. They are not, however, the files will be made available to anyone requesting them. Info is as follows:
The files are on 3 CD Roms.  Total Cost: $45.00 (incl mailing).

Request by FAX:  202-324-3752

Request by Mail:  Attention David M. Hardy
                  935 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
                  Washington, D.C.  20535

Ref: FOIA files - Vietnam Veterans Against the War

If requested by Fax, they will ship immediately... and bill you 
(no payment required in advance)

14 posted on 05/06/2004 6:43:03 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Sabertooth
Ping... please pass it on to any researchers, TIA.
15 posted on 05/06/2004 7:08:02 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: weegee
"Do you think that the FBI summary characterized John Kerry as a "decorated war hero" or is that just a "helpful" reminder from AP?"

Think this report gets enhancement by every lib who writes a story on it; read one yesterday; could tell where the report began and the 'fill' ended. Of course, they have to do this because we wouldn't understand the whole thing anyway.

Do wonder, though if this report was not cleaned up before release, in any event.

16 posted on 05/06/2004 7:10:55 AM PDT by cricket (Liberals are a scourge . . .)
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To: Liz
"As the saying goes, Kerry got tonsured for the Catholic vote, circumcized for the Jewish vote, and now he carries around a prayer rug for the Muslim vote."

LOL! and for sure. Wondering if there is anything archived on Kerry giving a speech; say on St. Patrick's Day - or even culling the Irish Catholic vote - where he may have played upon his very 'Kerry' name. Would be great to see. . .

17 posted on 05/06/2004 7:16:41 AM PDT by cricket (Liberals are a scourge . . .)
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To: weegee; Registered
I think we need a doctored picture of SKerry with Christmas decorations. "a decorated war hero"
18 posted on 05/06/2004 7:19:03 AM PDT by tiki
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To: cricket
Wondering if there is anything archived on Kerry giving a speech; say on St. Patrick's Day - or even culling the Irish Catholic vote - where he may have played upon his very 'Kerry' name. Would be great to see. . .

Kerry, Irish in March 18, 1986: "For those of us who are fortunate enough to share Irish ancestry, we take pride in the contributions of Irish Americans."

Kerry, not Irish in Feb 2003: "John Kerry has never indicated to anyone that he was Irish, and corrected people over the years who assumed he was." Kerry spokeswoman Kelly Benander, Feb. 2003.

19 posted on 05/06/2004 8:07:14 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
"Kerry, Irish in March 18, 1986: "For those of us who are fortunate enough to share Irish ancestry, we take pride in the contributions of Irish Americans." "

Which really means: "If I was Irish and shared your ancestry then I would also take pride in the contributions of Irish Americans."

So if Kerry was a Republican the headline reads:

KERRY SAYS IRISH AMERICANS HAVE NO PRIDE

20 posted on 05/06/2004 8:34:46 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Only difference between the liberals and the Nazis is that the liberals love the Communists.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
Not to worry. Kerry may have lost the Irish-American vote but he's going after other hyphenates. In fact, Kerry has done everything but fly a fighter jet upside down to get the hypehnates attention.....oh, wait a sec.....he did that, too. Heheh.

Kerry is cultivating hyphenate votes every which way he can:

(1) Eskimo-American Vote: Kerry eats blubber in an igloo; Teresa spears a whale from their yacht, the Scaramouche.

(2) Native American Vote: Kerry builds a teepee for himself and Teresa at his Idaho mansion and starts a fire rubbing two sticks of weed together; Teresa handles the wampun.

(3) Pacific Rim-American Vote: Kerry goes surfing for the Big Wave and never falls down; Teresa learns to do the hula. They eat poi wearing colorful mumuus and leis.
21 posted on 05/06/2004 8:46:27 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
Charisma, my Aunt Tillie.

ROFL! Yes, the implication that Kerry has charisma is another error in the article :) On the standard AD&D scale I'd say Kerry's charisma is about 3 :)

22 posted on 05/06/2004 9:35:41 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: cyncooper; Hon
Kerry Still Called Himself The Head Of VVAW In January 1973

Thanks!--I don't think I caught that article when it was posted, glad you brought it to my attention! And of course Kerry continued to associate with VVAW spinoff groups throughout the 1970s.

23 posted on 05/06/2004 9:41:38 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: Liz
Eskimo-American Vote: Kerry eats blubber in an igloo; Teresa spears a whale from their yacht, the Scaramouche.

ROFLMBO! With the script for the commercial written by Kerry's supporter Moby, of course--and the part of the whale played by Hillary. . .

24 posted on 05/06/2004 9:44:20 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: calcowgirl
Thank you much for checking into that!
25 posted on 05/06/2004 9:46:12 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora
So was this a summary or the actual documents. There is a BIG difference.
26 posted on 05/06/2004 9:49:52 AM PDT by mware
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To: weegee
"Kerry is accused in the file of little more than charisma. "

Somebody, please pick me up off the floor! My belly won't stop shaking.

27 posted on 05/06/2004 9:58:16 AM PDT by cookcounty (LBJ sent him to VN. Nixon expressed him home. And JfK's too dumb to tell them apart!)
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To: mware
It's a huge difference (or I guess on FR that'd be "hugh" :) Even on the FBI's own website you often can't get a sense of what's in the file from the summary alone. I want to see what the actual documents say.

I'd also mention that I wouldn't assume J. Edgar Hoover put everything he knew about John Kerry and the VVAW/antiwar movement down on paper in one convenient place--not how Hoover filed things, and he was still alive during the period in question.

28 posted on 05/06/2004 10:15:49 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora; mware
If you're thinking about getting the files, or want to see the types of things they may include, the FBI has many prior FOIA requests on their website (PDF Files). You can click on a few and get an idea... but you never really know without looking at all of them.

http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm

I have to believe this is much of the same information that was requested by Nicosia for his book (and was subsequently 'stolen'). 9000 pages of info is alot... but from having reviewed other files, I would guess that much of it is very repetitive. I always prefer primary sources though... and I have a hard time believing that the "journalists" will actually report the whole story.
29 posted on 05/06/2004 10:26:43 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: calcowgirl
Thanks! I've already downloaded a lot of the FOIA files which I suspect may be relevant to the VVAW investigation, though I haven't had time to work through them all yet--several thousand pages to read in the Surreptitious Entries files alone. I also wonder how much of it is the same information Nicosia had which he claims no one else had ever seen before him.
30 posted on 05/06/2004 10:43:30 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora
A few more tidbits re: FBI files.
They often have news clippings which are interesting. I found a letter to the NYT editor on Mother's day (5-8-71) which said : "Our son died in vain for what John Kerry calls 'the biggest nothing in history'." (No wonder so many vets are angry).

J Edgar Hoover DID write alot down. Everything from complaining about the media bias in the Washington Post and calling Dan Rather "Lazy" to getting phone calls from Presidents and Senators. LOL. There's some classics.

The time period of Kerry's activities should be remembered in conjunction with some other violent activities. The Weather Underground and other groups were threatening (and carrying out) various bombings, etc. Angela Davis was a definite target... the records showed they were "hot on her trail" and had "300 agents looking for her in Florida alone". (captured 10/15/70) They had assigned over 2300 agents to Civil Rights cases and said it "almost paralyzed us".

And then there was the rise of political correctness. A directive going out that said "No reference henceforth should be made to La Cosa Nostra or Mafia, but be referred to as Organized Crime because it is offensive to Italians."

While the files don't provide a total picture, they do provide an interesting view of history. I think the VVAW files would be interesting... and telling.
31 posted on 05/06/2004 10:50:22 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Fedora
FYI.... I went through a bunch of the following files: Clergy and Layman Concerned, SDS (Tom Hayden), Weather Underground, American Friends Svc Comm. I didn't really find any meaningful Kerry related stuff. If you're going to spend the time, the new records are probably more worth your time.

The J Edgar memos I looked at were in the Clyde Tolson files (his assistant and longtime companion). In one of those I found reference to a request from Kissinger on 1/30/69 for a report on "Worldwide Student unrest, its significance, the leadership, motivation, etc. by Mid February... who are these people, is it organized, spontaneous, who motivates them...". I only wish the response was in those files - it wasn't. Kerry's cousin in France was involved in the Student protests (and Kerry joined him, according to news articles). Interesting in light of Kissingers reference to WORLDWIDE student unrest.

The POW MIA files do have Kerry info from his early 1990 Senate Committee... but that's a different focus than his VVAW days.
32 posted on 05/06/2004 11:02:27 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: tiki; Registered
I've seen some editorial cartoonists' drawings that picture Kerry wearing 3 Purple Hearts medals to George W. Bush's none.

I think that it would be more appropriate if those artists had shown Kerry wearing those medals on his sleeve (and maybe have him wrapping himself with the flag as well).

33 posted on 05/06/2004 11:34:22 AM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS. CNN ignored torture & murder in Saddam's Iraq to keep their Baghdad Bureau.)
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To: Liz
(1) Eskimo-American Vote: Kerry eats blubber in an igloo; Teresa spears a whale from their yacht, the Scaramouche.

Better be careful there, he could end up losing the Greenpeace vote if he's pictured with a whale hunter. Then again he could claim it is like Teresa's taxes and SUVs, "not him/his".

I think it would be better for Kerry to say that he can identify with the Eskimos and their igloos. After all, gigolo is kinda like igloo jumbled around (and with another 'g').

34 posted on 05/06/2004 11:39:23 AM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS. CNN ignored torture & murder in Saddam's Iraq to keep their Baghdad Bureau.)
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To: calcowgirl
Thanks much for the info! I have seen some of the Hoover classics you mention :) One of my favorites is when he wrote he was "happy" whenever the Washington Post criticized the FBI, but "if they ever praise us I would call a meeting of top executives to see what was the reason" :) I'm aware he did write stuff down like you say. What I meant in my own comment was only that when he wrote stuff down he often segmented the files in different filing areas, especially with particularly sensitive information, so sometimes you have to cross-reference information from a few different files to really get a full picture of what the FBI knew about a given subject, and I suspect the journalist who wrote this article didn't go through that process before drawing the conclusions they express.

In the files you mention, as far as I've read like you say most of the stuff there isn't directly Kerry-related. However I find a lot of relevance in the background information on the VVAW's fellow travellers among the Weathermen and CALCAV/CALC and other groups. For instance CALCAV/CALC worked in coalition with VVAW from as early as 1968 (Nicosia's Home to War mentions this on 28, 37-38, 74), and if you note CALCAV/CALC's association with Riverside Church and crossreference that with the latter's background you come up with some interesting stuff (e.g. "The Clergy and Laity Concerned, formed by the NCC in 1965, is closely allied to the communist World Peace Council. . .The Riverside Church Disarmament Program (RCDP), run by activists in the leadership of the Marxist Institute for Policy Studies, is a propaganda organization active in the spread of liberationism. RCDP also is closely allied to the communist World Peace Council.": Churches & Organizations Promoting Liberation Theology).

Regarding the 1/30/69 request you mention, there is a little additional information on that in the book by Theoharis and Cox I mention, on p. 470-1; also see 469n and the footnotes 15-16 on 541, which cite the Tolson file memo you refer to as well as Theoharis' earlier book Spying on Americans p. 16. I don't have that book so I don't know what specifically he's referring to there, but on 470 Theoharis summarizes Hoover's response to the request by saying "Hoover's report, like that of the CIA, described Communist influence and participation in antiwar dissent"; so apparently the report is available somewhere.

I'm very interested in the information you mention on Kerry's cousin's activity in France. Where may I read more about that?

I believe the American antiwar movement's European links are very crucial to the full picture on the VVAW and its allies. The North Vietnamese were networking out of Paris, where Jane Fonda had gotten involved with the antiwar movement before allying with VVAW. Also, the investigation into alleged American "war crimes" that the VVAW and Kerry promoted was actually initiated by the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation in Britain ("The Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation was formed in 1963. . .Russell began publishing articles criticizing the unofficial war in Vietnam. . .Russell tore up his Labor Party membership card. He complained that visas the Peace Foundation had requested for three members of the National Liberation Front (NLF) had been refused. . .On May 24, 1966 Bertrand Russell spoke over NLF radio to American soldiers to explain to them the injustice of their involvement. Since the U.S. was continuing to drop three million pounds of bombs daily on North Vietnam, Russell called for an international War Crimes Tribunal in keeping with the principles of the Nuremburg trials. . .The War Crimes Tribunal met in Sweden and Denmark and became independent of the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation." The Pacifism of Bertrand Russell), which was working with the North Vietnamese National Liberation Front (NLF) and with Jean-Paul Sartre in France (note that Sarte was also an old ally of the World Peace Council mentioned above in connection with CALCAV/CALC and Riverside Church: "In 1954, he participated in a meeting of the World Council for Peace in Berlin after gaining a name for advocating the peace movement. . .In 1966, he joined and later presided at the War Crimes Commission organized by Bertrand Russell at Stockholm. . .His political involvement became more intense in 1968, when he supported the student movement in France during the May uprising.": JEAN-PAUL SARTRE (1905-1980)). BTW regarding the May 1968 French student uprising mentioned in that last sentence, I'll also add that heavily involved in that was a French revolutionary group called the Situationist Internationale (Situationists) which had some links with American protest groups like the Yippies and Diggers. I am curious whether Kerry's cousin was linked to the Situationists or similar such groups.

35 posted on 05/06/2004 2:33:41 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora
Three? You're too generous. I would have said minus 5.
36 posted on 05/06/2004 2:35:33 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Interesting Times; diotima
Ping!
37 posted on 05/06/2004 2:35:58 PM PDT by abner (FREE THE MIRANDA MEMOS! http://www.intelmemo.com or http://www.wintersoldier.com)
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To: Sabertooth; Liz; backhoe; ravingnutter; philman_36; mabelkitty
Ping on my Post #35 which has some information you may find interesting on links between the VVAW, the allied antiwar group Clergy and Laity Concerned About Vietnam, the European antiwar movement, and the World Peace Council.
38 posted on 05/06/2004 2:37:25 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: weegee
"The Gigolo In The Igloo".........sounds like a great Disney title but the gigolo would have to be gay.
39 posted on 05/06/2004 2:39:46 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
LOL! I considered giving him a lower score but I settled on a 3 because that's the lowest you can naturally get if you roll the dice three times :) However through supernatural means it's possible to get lower than a 3--for instance one old D&D manual lists the space demon Cthulhu as having a charisma of -7--so you could be right, if there are any links betwen Kerry and Cthulhu, which seems quite likely given the likely covert role of Hillary Clinton in the campaign:)
40 posted on 05/06/2004 2:48:47 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: abner
Ooooo.
41 posted on 05/06/2004 2:52:53 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: weegee
"Cool." Oh yeah, that's the first thing that pops into my mind whenever I think of F'n.
42 posted on 05/06/2004 3:01:18 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
"Cool." Oh yeah, that's the first thing that pops into my mind whenever I think of F'n.

By the standards of the J. Edgar Hoover FBI, Wayne Newton is "cool".

43 posted on 05/06/2004 3:06:58 PM PDT by pawdoggie
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To: Fedora
...I settled on a 3 because that's the lowest you can naturally get if you roll the dice three times :)...

I don't gamble but I've heard about three-time losers.......describes Kerry well. LOL.

44 posted on 05/06/2004 3:09:34 PM PDT by Liz
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To: pawdoggie
LOL! You mean you didn't think Wayne Newton was cool in National Lampoon's Vegas Vacation?--he sure thought he was--ROFL! BTW J. Edgar's official standard of coolness was actually James Cagney:

Theoharis and Cox, 149: At a stroke the tough, clean-cut, close-cropped Cagney became the prototype of the government policeman, so much so that Hoover began issuing new regulations requiring his agents to lose weight, cut their hair, improve their dress, and in general sharpen their image.

45 posted on 05/06/2004 3:30:59 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Liz
I don't gamble but I've heard about three-time losers.......describes Kerry well. LOL.

Is that count including Teresa?--LOL!

46 posted on 05/06/2004 3:32:03 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora
Okay... I'm splitting this up, here's the majority of my response:

... and if you note CALCAV/CALC's association with Riverside Church and crossreference that with ...

Your research is obviously MUCH more structured than mine. I was honestly just perusing through and I found it interesting. I scribbled down some notes as I went. But I was getting the impression of many of the connections. Overall, I was wondering if this wasn't one massive organization... with subgroups (aka cells, "focos", etc.). SDS definitely seemed to be in an upper tier... VVAW a lower tier. (CPUSA was probably at the top! lol) I'd have to check, but I think some of the NY addresses linked up with some of today's organizations (e.g. Ramsey Clark groups)... but I'm not sure I wrote it down.

...I suspect the journalist who wrote this article didn't go through that process ...

I think the author who wrote the article had only limited time to even glance at what he received (9000 pages released yesterday). Making sense of the whole thing... or attempting to connect the dots in a short lenghth of time (even with a team working over night) couldn't have gleaned much. And... if there is more meat there, I have no confidence that they will actually write about it... our sad misdirected media (still).

I agree about J Edgars files... there was nothing of the nature of a specific operation... those all must have had separate files, i.e. VVAW, SDS, etc. or by the individuals name if they rose to that level of interest.

...Regarding the 1/30/69..... so apparently the report is available somewhere.

Interesting... I might have to see what I can find.

I'm very interested in the information you mention on Kerry's cousin's activity in France. Where may I read more about that?

Some of this information may have been modified since I last read it all....but... someone was doing an incredible job documenting the family history and family tree (everything sourced, etc.) on wikipedia.com up to current campaign activities (all cross linked, etc). Through all of my reading, I didn't see anything that was contrary to established publications. (going back to about 1985 only). Wikipedia seems to be a joint voluntary project where users/researchers can add information. I glanced there the other day, and it looked like a Kerry-ite was adding (or changing) data (Only on the John Forbes Kerry page), unsupported... so, caution is warranted. If you follow the family tree, you will find that the Forbes family (his grandfather) had substantial interests in China/SE Asia and made their money in the Opium trade. More on this in my next post, since you mentioned the Paris talks and Madam Binh.

His cousin is Brice Lalonde of France which has been acknowledged in various publications (including some articles on FR). He is currently a Mayor... but previously ran as the Socialist candidate for President of France (a decade or two ago). He was founder of the Green Party and a served as the Minister of the Environment. Use this as a start... much of it is verifiable from recent articles... but some I wasn't able to confirm. (I wouldn't rely on it as primary source material). I have read elsewhere that he was one of the founders of the "predecessor to Greenpeace" which started as a student protest group and that Kerry visited him at the time and participated in activities. I believe this was before his Vietnam 'service'... but I'm not sure. The only group that I found that might fit the definition is the "Don't Make A Wave Committee", but glancing at wikipedia just now, they say it is the Union Nationale des Etudiants de France (UNEF). I never found any good source material, although I didn't look that hard. (There is probably quite a bit in French publications in the 60's/70's, and more current for that matter.) I went through FR to see if the articles that mentioned his french affiliations had a Keyword... I think I marked most (if not all) "Monseiur Kerry" and/or "John French Kerry". Many of these were published about the time Kerry was getting heat for talking to "Foreign Leaders". The comments from French relatives are quite amusing... basically saying that they'll be quiet for a time (but they're driving around France with Kerry bumper stickers!). One relative referred to him as a socialist. At least they're honest about it! LOL. More to follow! :-)


47 posted on 05/06/2004 3:38:39 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Fedora
After reading your last paragraph again, I'm not sure I have much to add. You are definitely nailing this one down... and wikipedia supports you with a few more details to start from. BTW... summer 1968 would be the time Kerry was there, as well.

Per that same Brice link: "1968 - President of the National Student Union (at the Sorbonne) and leader in the May 1968 student uprisings. "

Another thought is Kerry's first wife. She has quite an international background as well, and her twin brother David Thorne has been a lifelong friend of Kerry. There may be more close international ties through that connection, but I haven't seen them (or looked).
48 posted on 05/06/2004 4:49:32 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: calcowgirl
I appreciate you splitting up your response--sorry mine was so long, LOL!

I agree there are indicators of high-level coordination between various elements in the antiwar movement. CPUSA and its long-term fellow travellers on the American left were definitely factors; the Chinese also had an influence through groups such as the Progressive Labor Party (which infiltrated SDS and helped create the Weathermen, who in turn helped forge the Vencermos Brigade's ties to Cuba); and Cuban influence was widely disseminated across the board. With respect to Ramsey Clark two groups to be aware of in the background of his organization are the Socialist Workers Party (discussed extensively in FBI files and linked to the VVAW-associated antiwar group New Mobe) and its spinoff the Workers World Party. You're right about some of the groups sharing addresses--for instance, Nicosia's Home to War, 49 mentions that VVAW-related groups LINK, New Mobe, and the Moratorium Committee all operated out of the same Washington headquarters at 1029 Vermont Avenue NW in 1969.

Thanks much for the info on Kerry's cousin! I knew a little about that but much of what you have there is new to me, esp. the information about Lalonde's left-wing political ties, and I definitely find that very interesting.

I appreciate your caution on the need to fact-check what certain sites say about Kerry's family background. The information about the Forbes family having long-term interests in the Far East including opium is accurate but IMO before making too much of that I'd want to substantiate any links between the family's activity in that area and and Kerry specifically (which I've also been working on, LOL!). But even without hard evidence of that, I'd say the Lalonde tie warrants an inquiry into whether Kerry's French connection had any relevance to his relationship with the French element of the antiwar movement. On a possibly related note, I'll mention that when Kerry's father was a diplomat in Europe, he introduced Kerry to prominent French politicians such as Jean Monnet, who was linked to a faction in the US State Department that opposed John Foster Dulles on Soviet policy and advocated nuclear disarmament--I'm working on an article which will get more into this.

49 posted on 05/06/2004 4:51:45 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: calcowgirl
Thanks for the additional thoughts in #48--I need to mull that over, you've thought of some angles I hadn't considered.
50 posted on 05/06/2004 4:58:03 PM PDT by Fedora
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